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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:11 pm 
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hey kod how confident are you in that pk sus

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:18 pm 
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I have it on separate authority that Aaarrgh did, in fact, target Rag Night 1. This corroborates (albeit does not categorically prove) the account of Aaarrrgh potentially thwarting a Night 1 kill. I am therefore disinclined to hit him with a vote.

That also effectively all but cements him as a jailer unless I've misunderstood something critical about the game state, so I am actually inclined to vote Rag on the premise that she has mounted a campaign to eliminate one of town's most powerful roles.

Vote: Rag

I may inclined to shift this vote if Rag can make a viable case for herself.


Zinger2099 wrote:
But that's neither here nor there... Aaarrrgh, this is a super weak argument, you're obviously scrambling at straws. Like, c'mon my guy... Your best bet to get out from under the noose is to convince those of us voting you to move our votes to someone else, *not* convincing others to dogpile on the people voting you. That's like, textbook OMGUS and will garner no sympathy.

He's grasping a bit, sure, but appearing to lie overtly about your OC communication is a honestly a pretty big deal. It's not especially surprising that he'd lean on that.


As far as discs go, I can confirm that I received one. To that end, if Zinger does not have more important or more lucratively paid targets, I am happy to be investigated in order to reduce the non-town disc pool.

However
. Rag has somewhat disingenuously walked around the fact that there is no particular reason why one of me/Freddeh/PK/Zinger must be actual mafia. The only requirement for the disc mission to fail was that 3 discs are held by non-town. Relatively neutral 3rd parties (say, a survivor or something) would also constitute a sufficient failure condition.

It therefore worries me a bit that Rag, with her game-spanning network of discord chats, would so blatantly fail to coordinate the disc exchange. She can't even confirm the disc destination for us, because double-gifting Minish results in an untraceable loss. Yet pretty much the only way town loses that mission is if a disc goes missing.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:57 pm 
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There's a whole lot of people I am more suspicous of than Aaarrgh. PK, Freddeh, KoD. And even Rag.

KoD: Not contributing much other than trolling, yet being too nice for his usual town play. Where's the long posts? ;) Also made it clear he knew Minish was Sonic before she died. Certainly a good hit for mafia. Could even see him pass to disk to her knowing she'd get hit, thus getting it back. (Of course, it would be easier to pass it to mafia, but I still believe that's something he'd do for fun.)

PK/Rag: At this point it seems likely something is wrong in that network. Either a leak (PK), or lead by mafia (Rag). I agree with Skystone about the weird lack of coordination. It sounds like you were all aware of who had disks, yet had two people send to Minish? Why?

Freddeh: Whole thing with Zinger seems really iffy. Why would you give the disk as payment before asking for a deal? Also, Zinger is likely 3rd party, therefore an anti-town choice to pass the disk to Zinger during the mission.

Vote: Freddeh


Skystone wrote:

As far as discs go, I can confirm that I received one. To that end, if Zinger does not have more important or more lucratively paid targets, I am happy to be investigated in order to reduce the non-town disc pool.[b]


Now did the mission is over, you could also use it to pay Zinger to investigate someone of town/thread choosing.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Alright, that synches it. I have information which, if it is reliable and accurate (and I believe it to be so), then Skystone is scum. The only thing needed to confirm it was the confirmation of whether or not Skystone had a disc (yes to disc = scum, no to disc = unknown).

And Skystone coming to Aaarrrgh's rescue only reafirms my suspicions of Aaarrrgh.

I think Skystone and Aaarrrgh are both scumbuddies.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:06 pm 
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Skystone wrote:
However[/b]. Rag has somewhat disingenuously walked around the fact that there is no particular reason why one of me/Freddeh/PK/Zinger must be actual mafia. The only requirement for the disc mission to fail was that 3 discs are held by non-town. Relatively neutral 3rd parties (say, a survivor or something) would also constitute a sufficient failure condition.

Let me clear it up for you.

We know that at least 3 discs are held by non-town.

I have a disc and I am town.

Rag has confirmation that another player is town and has a disc.

So whoever is left that has a disc is not town.

Ergo, you, Skystone, are not Town.

Which also means we were right about Aaarrrgh.

Is the information you have which "confirms" Aaarrrgh targeted Rag the fact that you're in a scum chat with him, perchance?


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Unvote, Vote: Skystone

zinger said as much, but at least 3 of the disks last ended last night in the hands of non-town. One of these ended up in the hands of the player rubik had a green check on (and i'm effectively 100% sure he got a green check on that player), which means 3 of the remaining 4 players are non-town.

of those four players Zinger and Skystone are two, which means one of zinger and skystone must be non-town, and considering zinger's cop play i find it unlikely that its him.

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:08 pm 
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Unvote, Vote: Skystone


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:15 pm 
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I'm willing to jump on this train. The logic seems to hold up, and resolving the disk situation seems like a good idea.

Vote: Skystone

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:21 pm 
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Unvote, Vote: Skystone

Goodbye my once, and former, teacher.

May the Void embrace your body. May the Light embrace your soul.


Also Dusky, how dare you.

:V

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
I'm willing to jump on this train. The logic seems to hold up, and resolving the disk situation seems like a good idea.

Vote: Skystone

This does not exonerate you, btw, as it was the only move you could make, logically. :V


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:12 pm 
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That logic doesn't hold up at all. Lost disks get redistributed and could have fallen back to mafia.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:14 pm 
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I mean, it only holds if you believe Rag. AND that Minish knew for sure she passed to town and it succeeded. Who has that disk?


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:14 pm 
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No disks were lost.

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Why not? Minish can't hold two and allegedly two were passed to her.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:23 pm 
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No disks were lost.

The disc rules state that town-aligned players can only hold 1 disc. As soon as Minish received two, the second one was lost to the void. This lost disc has not been claimed by any players. Ergo, mafia has at least one disc (the one Minish had), one unknown (presumably non-town) player has the lost disc, and either one or two of the remaining three known discs are held by non-town actors.

(I have a longer post coming to establish the broader facts, but this is blatantly false so I had to chime in.)


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:40 pm 
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No disks were lost.

Right now Skystone is certainly in a damning position and, most likely, is scum.

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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:40 pm 
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It looks like I have to clear up a few misconceptions.

First off, the savvy reader will note that I only ever claimed to have received a disc. This was by design. Rag had started the day by trying to control the narrative vis-à-vis disc possession, which I found suspect given both that I myself had re-gifted my disc to Rag somewhat late in the cycle and that a pro-town actor ought to be willing to reveal their status as a disc holder. My suspicions were then augmented by Rag's failure to keep a chain of control over the disc-giving, despite her ostensibly having OC chats with everyone.

I thus decided to use my knowledge of the missing disc as a sort of litmus test. If Rag were town, she might realistically want to confirm my place in the chain before outing herself. If, however, she were scum (be it mafia or some third party actor like Dr. Eggman), then she would need to rely on the fact that Minish being gifted two discs made the second disc untraceable.

Rag, of course, chose the second route. Unfortunately for her, that disc came from me, not from Minish. So I know that she's lying. Rag is scum.


Secondly, I am more than willing to back up my account of the facts by submitting myself to a cop investigation in order to establish my alignment. If it actually is true that Zinger requires payment of some kind in order to investigate, then I recommend that a pro-town player gift Zinger a disc. Otherwise, he ought to just investigate me.


Thirdly, the player who revealed Aaarrrgh's Day 1 target to me was, in fact, not Aaarrrgh. I can reveal that player's name if it is deemed to be in the best interests of town, but a tracker role is inherently powerful and my role is inherently not, so it's unclear to me that my relatively vanilla presence is worth more than getting the tracker night-killed. Perhaps that person would consider coming forward? If not, I will name if them if the consensus is that I should.


Fourthly, my role is Maria Robotnik. I know Shadow's identity from the start of the game (yes, it's Rubik). Second, my death counts as 1 completed mission for the side who doesn't kill me. In other words, if mafia kills me, then town gets 1 free completed mission. If, however, I am lynched, that counts as 1 free completed mission for mafia.

(For those who are not familiar with the Sonic franchise, you can look Maria up to see why this might be.)

tl;dr I gave Rag a disc, and she lied about it hoping that she had the missing one.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:46 pm 
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@KoD, because apparently you're incapably of reading English words:

Each town player can have a maximum of one disc at a time; anyone else may have up to two. Any extra disks will be redistributed or will fail to change hands.

If it's true that you and Rag both gave Minish discs, then it's reasonable to assume that the second disc was redistributed. Otherwise, someone (you? Rag?) is conveniently lying. Of course, you both 'gave' your discs to a player whom you both allegedly knew was town, and that player mysteriously died holding two discs that they couldn't have possibly both been holding. And mafia mysteriously decided to kill her despite a cop waltzing around in plain sight.

You're almost implicating yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:50 pm 
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Duskyblue wrote:
PK/Rag: At this point it seems likely something is wrong in that network. Either a leak (PK), or lead by mafia (Rag).

Sure, except that I'm not in Rag's cult. I have no idea what anyone is planning in there. In fact, I specifically declined Rag's invitation at the start of the game because I didn't trust it.

I certainly don't like the miscommunication or mass votes coming from that chat. The evidence we have for today relies on:
Rag having town's best interests in mind
Zinger being town
Rubik having town's best interests in mind
Minish communicating clearly.

I find it odd that shadow's working with that chat, and I still don't believe zinger is town. I'd rather not follow Rag's chat blindly just because they have more people on their side.

Of the three choices today, I'm still inclined to lynch Freddeh over skystone or Aargh.
I'd rather not vote skystone because they've asked to be scanned. I don't trust that Zinger is town, so I don't think sky is proven guilty.
I'd rather not vote Aargh because I think they're a suicide bomb. Rag's chat and Aargh themselves have both proven willing to lynch Aargh, and only turned to other targets once Aargh wasn't getting enough votes.
Meanwhile, Freddeh passed their disk to zinger, who I still don't think is town. Zinger didn't confirm until they communicated back with Freddeh, which I suspect had them hashing out some sort of a deal. A deal which town!zinger wouldn't feel the need to take.


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 Post subject: Re: Shadow the Hedgehog
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Ninja'd. Skystone's story relies on them being able to pass a disk again:
Skystone wrote:
First off, the savvy reader will note that I only ever claimed to have received a disc. This was by design. Rag had started the day by trying to control the narrative vis-à-vis disc possession, which I found suspect given both that I myself had re-gifted my disc to Rag somewhat late in the cycle and that a pro-town actor ought to be willing to reveal their status as a disc holder.


However, the rules only mention that the original owners can pass disks.
DekuNut wrote:
This morning, five randomly chosen players woke up with disks in their inventory.
Those five players must choose one other player to pass the disk off to before the end of Night Three.
Each town player can have a maximum of one disc at a time; anyone else may have up to two. Any extra disks will be redistributed or will fail to change hands.
If a player is killed during the disk mission, their killer (last player on their wagon or the person who killed them in the night) will receive their disk.
If a player who starts with a disk does not pass theirs on before the end of Night 3, their faction's mission will lose automatically.
At the end of Night 3, if the town controls at least three of the five disks, the Hero mission succeeds.


@DekuNut, can we get clarification on this?


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