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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:20 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
What is the value added to ROI by giving a CEO a big bonus while laying a bunch of people off?


Companies look at their CEO as their most valued employee. People at that level have extensive knowledge and expertise. It takes a ton of compensation to lure the top CEOs to your company.

You have 3,000 employees working in a sales stores. It takes 3 weeks to train a class of 30 and they are minimum wage, low skill workers. It's faster and more cost effective to lay those people off and then rehire them than it is to attract someone with an MBA, knows the market that your company is in, understands your business partners and brings fresh ideas that expand and empower your company. A customer service rep comes at a dime a dozen. A high quality CEO is a unicorn.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:22 pm 
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Oh yeah, I just wanted to say;

This is the worst March Madness Bracket ever

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Goddammit I took a nap and now there are 3 more pages!

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:51 pm 
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You missed nothing other than some actually funny Mjack posts on this page and last


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:57 pm 
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Goddammit I took a nap and now there are 3 more pages!


I know right? We’re starting to slip a bit. Less than 10 pages and no mods summoned

smh

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:09 pm 
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After reading all this I understand a bit more about whats going on there, buybacks does not deny the whole concept of free market? and also if companies go bankrupt for a mayor event they cannot prepare, and their service is no longer needed at the volumen it was working then it should be allowed to restructure its operation if the market is healthy then smaller companies would have tactical advantage and the market would adjust.

On a pure political stand this bailouts are not well perceived by society at large, and explaining it really does not generate empathy for the company, the only way to make sense of it is by DJ ROI argument, that said facts show that ROI can make some pretty immoral decisions.

How are syndicates work in the US? does any of this companies have them? could the state invest in the company now and sell stocks later making this profitable for the tax payers? or give stocks to the syndicate and a place in the directory in order to keep ROI in check.

Finally bailouts will be perceived as unjust add the 2008 bailout to that mix and you now got a subterranean malaise growing that could violently erupt if you don't make amendments.
If you want people to trust in the market then you should let the market work.

EDIT: If a company is too big to fail and needs bailouts those companies should be nationalized or they jeopardize the whole system with their ROI.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:34 pm 
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"that said facts show that ROI can make some pretty immoral decisions."

One thing about that... the social contract is between the investors and the company. I know that goes against some invented modern constructs, but they are total BS, and they cause gross misunderstandings. The (most) MORAL decision is to protect the investors, not the employees, or the consumers. You (ie. companies) don't owe the employees anything other than the wages they have already earned, and you don't owe the consumers anything other than the products they have already bought. Companies DO (legally, morally, etc...) however owe the investors something.

Now, society - e.g.: government - gets another benefit out of the existence of companies... jobs, cheap products, services, etc... The investors don't get these benefits. This is why society might choose to pay the owners of the company to keep an otherwise failing company alive.

Because right now, some companies might be worth more to the investors (fyi debt also exists, and they too are investors) if they went bankrupt instead. Take for instance banks, who may, in fact, be hurt by this bailout under certain circumstances. When equity gets wiped out, banks take over... sometimes this is very advantageous to the banks (depends on the situation). The point is this is all a mixed bag, and folks need to stop trying to label it with catchphrases or describe it with memes (yeah, we all know that ain't happening... just sayin though).


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 pm 
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"EDIT: If a company is too big to fail and needs bailouts those companies should be nationalized or they jeopardize the whole system with their ROI."

TBH, I'd be more in favor of letting companies fail, than nationalizing them... no matter how big.

It's not a good purchase, if it were we wouldn't be bailing them out. (well some probably are, but that's beside the point.)

Also, right now, what are we going to do? buy all the businesses in the U.S. Have the U.S. government own and operate everything? Sounds like a terrible idea - especially in a country that has shown its willingness to become the plaything of men like Donald Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:43 pm 
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What I meant of immoral decisions is in the lines of child work, health hazard for employees, environmental destruction, pollution, etc. Those choices protect the investors...

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:44 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
"EDIT: If a company is too big to fail and needs bailouts those companies should be nationalized or they jeopardize the whole system with their ROI."

TBH, I'd be more in favor of letting companies fail, than nationalizing them... no matter how big.

It's not a good purchase, if it were we wouldn't be bailing them out. (well some probably are, but that's beside the point.)

Also, right now, what are we going to do? buy all the businesses in the U.S. Have the U.S. government own and operate everything? Sounds like a terrible idea - especially in a country that has shown its willingness to become the plaything of men like Donald Trump.

No, no I didint meant that not all companies are too big to fail.

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Last edited by Cucho Lambreta on Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:45 pm 
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What I meant of immoral decisions is in the lines of child work, health hazard for employees, environmental destruction, pollution, etc. Those choices protect the investors...


Ah... yeah... in economics we call those externalities. Yeah, they definitely require government intervention to avoid. No argument here - well, okay, arguments on which ones are worth avoiding, but that's a different discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:48 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
"EDIT: If a company is too big to fail and needs bailouts those companies should be nationalized or they jeopardize the whole system with their ROI."

TBH, I'd be more in favor of letting companies fail, than nationalizing them... no matter how big.

It's not a good purchase, if it were we wouldn't be bailing them out. (well some probably are, but that's beside the point.)

Also, right now, what are we going to do? buy all the businesses in the U.S. Have the U.S. government own and operate everything? Sounds like a terrible idea - especially in a country that has shown its willingness to become the plaything of men like Donald Trump.

No, no I didint meant that not all companies are too big to fail.


I'd argue that NO corporation is too big (or too important) to fail.

But we aren't talking about failing corporations right now... we are talking about faltering societies... that's a completely different subject. This is the kind of thing governments are supposed to help with.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:56 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
"EDIT: If a company is too big to fail and needs bailouts those companies should be nationalized or they jeopardize the whole system with their ROI."

TBH, I'd be more in favor of letting companies fail, than nationalizing them... no matter how big.

It's not a good purchase, if it were we wouldn't be bailing them out. (well some probably are, but that's beside the point.)

Also, right now, what are we going to do? buy all the businesses in the U.S. Have the U.S. government own and operate everything? Sounds like a terrible idea - especially in a country that has shown its willingness to become the plaything of men like Donald Trump.

No, no I didint meant that not all companies are too big to fail.


I'd argue that NO corporation is too big (or too important) to fail.

But we aren't talking about failing corporations right now... we are talking about faltering societies... that's a completely different subject. This is the kind of thing governments are supposed to help with.

I agree there, this is beyond bad business choices, the FED money should always have some strings attached tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:59 pm 
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The only strings I'd attach is that they are loans (and frankly the rates should be pretty low). The strings people want aren't smart strings right now, especially things that get in the way of normal, intelligent operations.

See the thing is... if the ROI is currently negative, the businesses should be downsizing... otherwise they are spending a dollar to make less than a dollar, and that will exacerbate the problem rather than help it - I'm talking macro scale.

In fact, that's exactly what my problem is with government ownership - they never downsize, even when they absolutely should. I don't want 100K government employees working for the airlines... We'd still have to fire them right now, but it would take an act of congress, rather than what it should... a CEO signing on the doted line.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:25 pm 
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We should only bailout Cruise Lines that are incorporated in the US and fly the US flag. The majority of them are foreign incorporated, fly foreign flags, mostly hire foreigners, and pay little to no US taxes. They are also not an essential industry that merits ignoring those things. They are basically a luxury item for US tourists; and we have other vacation destinations that will be just as good.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:29 pm 
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We should only bailout airlines with high customer satisfaction ratings.

/s

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:33 pm 
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I’m on my fifth mortgage in six days. Don’t listen to my financial advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:35 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
We should only bailout airlines with high customer satisfaction ratings.

/s


Lol... So none of them... works for me.

I'll be able to afford to fly with any of the carriers that survive. Frankly, I'm tired of the low-cost carrier model in any case. I'd be happy to see all of these low-margin companies disappear and be replaced by high-dollar, expensive, high-service companies that most people can't use. :D

People will also get to stop bitching about poor service, since they won't get service in the first place.

Well I guess in the modern era we'll get some:

1 star: "too expensive, didn't fly."

lol


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:39 pm 
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Most commercial flights under two hours are not really an essential service tbh. The real problem would be coast to coast.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:41 pm 
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so, Watch Dogs is free on the epic store so I grabbed it last night, I'll start it later today. Also noticed I had the Batman Arkham games.

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