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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Everyone knows the power of a turn one Thoughsteize - especially one on the play. With Mental Misstep being banned practically everywhere and Leyline of Sanctity being a somewhat clunky luck based sideboard option there has to be a better way! I've been brewing options for several months now and finally came up with a design that I'm happy with, and I wanted to share it. I'm also curious what anyone else might brew up!

This is an open thread to design or discuss ways to combat turn one discard effects. Particularly when you're on the draw.

Here's my design for some inspiration!

Hidden Temple
Land (U)
If a spell or ability an opponent controls would cause you to reveal your hand, you may reveal only this card from your hand instead.
: Add .
Jace stood in uncomfortable silence. He was surrounded by at least a dozen monks, yet couldn't hear a single thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:19 pm 
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I actually kind of like it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:37 pm 
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yeah this is pretty

probably not playable, but pretty

:duel:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Not bad at all, though I have a feeling this would be ran in a lot of combo decks in Legacy and Modern. Especially Modern where the cheapest answer to combo is Thoughtseize or maybe a Path to Exile.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:13 am 
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Only thing I don't like about it is that it's encouraging you to leave this in your hand, rather than playing it. However, the more I think about it, the more I like the tension it gives, because it doesn't enter tapped, so sometimes you'll take the chance and play it anyways. This is a deceptively resource-expensive card. Neat.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:55 pm 
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shouldn't it be like conspicuously visible temple instead of hidden temple

that said it's neat

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:43 am 
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It is like a really annoying song that is always playing in your head. When they try to read your mind it is the only thing that they can focus on.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:53 am 
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Top tier in Mental Magic.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:56 am 
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Pretty nice but I am in the camp where it prolly won't see play.

After thinking a bit, maybe if Thoughtseize is in standard.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:18 am 
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Make it Legendary. I've definitely heard legends about this card.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:27 am 
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Thanks for all the comments on the card, and the Card of the Week nomination! It's my first!

What kind of card would any of you design to combat a turn one discard effect when you're on the draw? I'm curious to see what the community might come up with.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:37 am 
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I don't like the design. Putting random, super-hard hosers (counterspell that doesn't cost mana or a card) onto a land does not seem like good design to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:28 pm 
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OlahZep wrote:
What kind of card would any of you design to combat a turn one discard effect when you're on the draw? I'm curious to see what the community might come up with.


idea

Wardwood Elder
Creature - Treefolk Shaman (R)
Hexproof
Discard Wardwood Elder: Choose a color. You gain hexproof from that color until end of turn.
Hal-Azul treebark acts as a powerful spell dampener - a natural and inevitable turn for evolution to take, given the magic-rich nature of the pass.
2/1

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:38 pm 
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If you would discard a card, you may discard xyz and discard 1 random instead

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:46 pm 
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I think we should also ask whether a card that counters thoughseize effects NEEDS to exist. They're reactive cards, not proactive cards, they don't need to be answerable.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:01 pm 
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Cato wrote:
I think we should also ask whether a card that counters thoughseize effects NEEDS to exist. They're reactive cards, not proactive cards, they don't need to be answerable.


I question whether thoughtseize needs to exist. Combo shouldn't be easy, but maybe it shouldn't be hit so hard. Unless we just want aggro only.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:04 pm 
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I mean, first of all, thoughtseize is not just an anti-combo card. Those effects, the most frequently printed one being duress, have seen a ton of play in standard formats where combo didn't exist. They can rip specific threats that a deck otherwise has trouble dealing with (planeswalkers being the best example), or specific answers (aggro decks can rip wrath effects), or they can be used to disrupt an opponent's curve. Spending 1 mana to make sure that their turn 3 goes completely to waste is a pretty good tradeoff, wouldn't you say?

Second, combo is far from underpowered in modern. The banlist is filled with combo cards, because the archetype had too big of a share of the meta. If combo was underpowered, WotC could just unban twin or shoal or whatever instead of making discard suck. One solution I DON'T like to any archetype being underpowered is making it less interactive, that just leads to unfun and frustrating gameplay, especially with something like combo.

Third, there are other answers to aggro, you know. Midrange is the classic one. There's a sort of rule where any deck can be beaten by decks slightly greedier than it, but will stomp on decks that are a lot greedier than it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Cato wrote:
I mean, first of all, thoughtseize is not just an anti-combo card.


The problem is that it hits combo hard in addition to its other uses.

I see a lot of elves, merfolk, Goblins, and such in mtgo modern. What I don't see is combo because of hyperagressive decks. I think thoughtseize might be one of the problems, but probably not the only one. It just feels like mtg is moving towards being much more about aggro in general. As a Johnny, that's a sad state of affairs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Maybe something like this?

Shadowhide Baloth-
Creature-Beast
If an effect would cause you to discard one or more cards, you may discard Shadowhide Baloth instead.
4/4

you still have to lose something so it's not a hard counter, but it stops them from thoughtseizing your other things and also stops Mind Rot et al as a bonus. (that's not super necessary, but I think it's better to have the option 'cause it makes it easier to tell what the ability does at a quick glance.)

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:08 pm 
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gd1w wrote:
Cato wrote:
I mean, first of all, thoughtseize is not just an anti-combo card.


The problem is that it hits combo hard in addition to its other uses.

I see a lot of elves, merfolk, Goblins, and such in mtgo modern. What I don't see is combo because of hyperagressive decks. I think thoughtseize might be one of the problems, but probably not the only one. It just feels like mtg is moving towards being much more about aggro in general. As a Johnny, that's a sad state of affairs.

Did you read my second paragraph?

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