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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:42 pm 
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When he says "Jace's Origin story" he means the Origins story, not AoA.

"The lines set down in AoA" is pretty vague and probably just means coming from Vrynn, his parental situation, and his master teaching and betraying him.

He is being pretty liberal with words, and I imagine if you were able to point to specific things in AoA that conflict with the Origins story, he would probably agree, but I hardly think he is being malicious in this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:39 pm 
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I think you mean "she"

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I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:48 pm 
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LilyStorm wrote:
I think you mean "she"

In the immortal words of Clerks 2: "Kelly can be a guy's name."

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:37 pm 
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How embarrassing. I honestly thought that was a girl in the avatar too. Thus is the woes of phone viewing of things

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altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Jman22 wrote:
When he says "Jace's Origin story" he means the Origins story, not AoA.
But that's exactly my point. Kelly is comparing Jace's story from Origins to his origin story in AoA.

Jman22 wrote:
"The lines set down in AoA" is pretty vague and probably just means coming from Vrynn, his parental situation, and his master teaching and betraying him.
I don't see anything vague about it at all. 'Staying entirely within the lines set down in AoA' is saying there are no contradictions and they worked exclusively with what was already there. And that's simply not true.

Jman22 wrote:
He is being pretty liberal with words, and I imagine if you were able to point to specific things in AoA that conflict with the Origins story, he would probably agree, but I hardly think he is being malicious in this situation.
I am able to point them out, I already did. 'Malicious' isn't the word I would choose here, but it's deliberate misinformation to shut down criticism. "There were no retcons, everything lines up perfectly, any complaints you hear from people who've actually read the book are completely unjustified".

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:25 am 
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I suppose it's a question of whether "entirely within the lines" includes what's between the lines; or the lines surrounding them, but not directly related to Jace's origins.
I have my doubts about WOTC's storytelling, but I don't feel sufficiently informed to weigh in beyond that.

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*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:28 am 
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Revamped the old archon articles: https://medium.com/@Mullerornis/mtg-ana ... 89c3568093

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:51 pm 
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I never knew much about the term "archon" beyond what was presented in MTG. The gnostic concept of archons is pretty dang brutal and a lot more interesting than the Christian demons.
In MTG angels and archons seem to represent opposite sides of care and justice ethics. Weird that in Plane Shift: Zendikar, archons apparently report to the angels.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:37 am 
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Hey guys, Elvish Spirit Guide is picking up a reprint in the nearish future, though I'm not sure if it is in the new Masters 25 set or the Elves vs. Goblins Inventors Duel Deck. either way, here's the art for it.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:18 am 
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Woah, can't wait! :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:01 am 
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That is GORGEOUS.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:51 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Hey guys, Elvish Spirit Guide is picking up a reprint in the nearish future, though I'm not sure if it is in the new Masters 25 set or the Elves vs. Goblins Inventors Duel Deck. either way, here's the art for it.

WOW! :takei:

Yeah, guessing because of Standard balance it won't be in Dominaria or the next core set.

I feel like it catches the essence of an 'elven spirit guide' much better than the original card too, something that isn't a sure thing for new arts.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:39 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
Hey guys, Elvish Spirit Guide is picking up a reprint in the nearish future, though I'm not sure if it is in the new Masters 25 set or the Elves vs. Goblins Inventors Duel Deck. either way, here's the art for it.

WOW! :takei:

Yeah, guessing because of Standard balance it won't be in Dominaria or the next core set.

I feel like it catches the essence of an 'elven spirit guide' much better than the original card too, something that isn't a sure thing for new arts.

Yes, we all remember the golden age of Hyalopterous Lemure.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:07 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
AzureShade wrote:
Hey guys, Elvish Spirit Guide is picking up a reprint in the nearish future, though I'm not sure if it is in the new Masters 25 set or the Elves vs. Goblins Inventors Duel Deck. either way, here's the art for it.

WOW! :takei:

Yeah, guessing because of Standard balance it won't be in Dominaria or the next core set.

I feel like it catches the essence of an 'elven spirit guide' much better than the original card too, something that isn't a sure thing for new arts.

Yes, we all remember the golden age of Hyalopterous Lemure.
Hey, at least they were awesome enough to poke fun at it in Time Spiral :-P. Good times, man. Good times.

That said, on the whole I have to side with Nekomata, there have been a quite lot of reprinted cards with new artwork that was a serious downgrade recently, with Iconic Masters being the worst offender. Yeah, sometimes there's amazing new artwork like this one, but it's far from a sure thing indeed. What they DO have a hand for is reprinting cards with existing promo-artwork, though. Think Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Vindicate (Eternal Masters version) or the new Azusa, Lost but Seeking in Masters 25.

It's not hard to see that Elvish Spirit Guide definitely needed new artwork, though, because 1.) the original one looks like a Faerie, not an like an Elf Spirit, 2.) it has wings but doesn't fly, and 3.) it's quite static and boring.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I am able to point them out, I already did. 'Malicious' isn't the word I would choose here, but it's deliberate misinformation to shut down criticism. "There were no retcons, everything lines up perfectly, any complaints you hear from people who've actually read the book are completely unjustified".
By "Staying within the lines" Kelly meant that they kept the outline and changed the details. But go ahead and keep grinding that ax.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:31 pm 
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astarael7 wrote:
I am able to point them out, I already did. 'Malicious' isn't the word I would choose here, but it's deliberate misinformation to shut down criticism. "There were no retcons, everything lines up perfectly, any complaints you hear from people who've actually read the book are completely unjustified".
By "Staying within the lines" Kelly meant that they kept the outline and changed the details. But go ahead and keep grinding that ax.

ADDING to the details is one thing, but straight up changing details is rather another.
Mind you, once again mostly playing devil's advocate here. I'm only a little irked about Jace's origins (mostly between Alhammeret being a sphinx and Ravnica being the landing zone) unlike, say, Nissa or Chandra. Or even Gideon.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:44 pm 
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astarael7 wrote:
I am able to point them out, I already did. 'Malicious' isn't the word I would choose here, but it's deliberate misinformation to shut down criticism. "There were no retcons, everything lines up perfectly, any complaints you hear from people who've actually read the book are completely unjustified".
By "Staying within the lines" Kelly meant that they kept the outline and changed the details. But go ahead and keep grinding that ax.
Sure, if you insist.

We all know that "they kept the outline and changed the details"* is what actually happened, but it's simply not what Kelly's actual words are saying. Anyone reading his tweet without knowing about AoA is being lied to and walks away from it with the false information that nothing was changed, especially since saying that they stayed entirely within those lines is a pretty bold statement. If you knowingly tweet something that is blatantly untrue, it's a lie, even if a certain percentage of your audience knows it's blatantly untrue.


*And again, the issue whether or not Jace remembers his youth on his homeplane is an absolutely crucial detail, especially with the way they've been building on that retcon. It changes something about the very core of the character. That's why all those touchy-feely scenes in RIX about Jace being 'whole' again or whatever do nothing for me, except making me walk away from the story depressed by how little of the original vision still matters.

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 pm 
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I run hylapterous lemure in a cube. It is a highly serviceable limited common.


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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Hey everyone, wizards has a survey up.
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/4161844/pasq1?src=mxhome

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 Post subject: Re: A tumblr thing.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Sure, if you insist.

We all know that "they kept the outline and changed the details"* is what actually happened, but it's simply not what Kelly's actual words are saying.
No. That is exactly what Kelly's actual words are saying. That is what that phrase means. You are twisting it into meaning that they kept every nuance, shade, and detail when it does not mean that. Stop.

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