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 Post subject: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:50 pm 
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So since Duels won't be updated any more and this is all the card pool will ever be, it seems reasonable now to try and create the best 30 decks available (Spike builds need only apply!).

Like CGB's quest for the best series, we should nominate the best decks available from all the archetypes available until we have the top 30 decks (or basically a full library) determined. I'm suggesting we try and get a reasonable split across all the archetypes - aggro, midrange and control but what's important is we decide on the actual best/top 30 decks. Obviously there's variations of each archetype (like midrange could include tempo, ramp, beatdown etc or control could have draw/go, burn, mill, fog etc) but I'm sure we can all vote/collaborate to come up with the top 30 decks possible from this pool.

People can post deck lists if they want and I'm sure there will be debates over particular cards, but the shell of builds are typically the same and we can get those general archetypes voted in. So for example, say we decided to include Zombies in the top 30 and would fall in the aggro category. There are a number of decks and ways to build Zombies (as the current deck building contest has shown) but there is a 'core' set of cards that would/should make any cut when building a Zombie deck (again referring to the current deck building contest, I think there's only a handful of differences in most decks unless the builder was trying to be 'cute' and go for some style points). We outline the core to that deck and then if folks want, we can even debate/vote for the best variation of that build. We keep going/debating until we have a final top 30 list that's competitive and playable.

So nominate decks (or broad archetypes we can debate/build) for the top 30. If there happens to be more than 30 decks, then we'll determine the top 20 (that shouldn't be too hard/much debate) and then we'll create a poll from the remaining decks and vote the last 10.

Then Barney can build all the decks and shouldn't ever be able to rage delete again (he'll have to blame his two lose rule on RNG or the pilot).



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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:57 pm 
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love this idea! I'll make a ton of nominations tonight. My library is largely filled with, what I consider, the best decks of various archtypes are. They all have amazing records.

Everything from Simic ramp to Orzhov Zombies. Can't wait to talk about these decks.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:25 pm 
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So it'll be a netdecker's wet-dream? Lol

Just as long as mono-red is well represented.

I'm actually on a personal quest to make the greatest mono-red Duels deck ever (for me at least). Haven't quite gotten there yet, but I'm close... I can feel it.
(if you face me on the ladder and see a crimson background with a dude with horns and a long beard, be afraid! Things are gonna get hot! ;))

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:31 pm 
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I think Sixty's big red deck might be the best one, but i'll take a look tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Jund energy is the best all around deck after sideboard. It has access to all the tools to beat any deck.

If we don't talk about sideboard, it will be a faster aggro deck, with more linear game plan. Black red aggro can win more games than most of the other decks.

Control I like Grixis the best because of the intimations and better removal suite against the aggro meta.

For me the most fun deck is simic fog, with rise from the tides + part the waterveil finish. Aggro deck could never win a single game against simic fog and I got to chain 5-6 ramp+draw spells a turn. Self mill and win the game with 1 card in library. The 2hg variation is +2x Throne but the ramp draw core is the same.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:20 pm 
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WW, you can submit your Zombie aggro deck and that's it. I don't want to see no fog caca

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:21 pm 
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This sounds fun and it is a marathon ;) / exactly what we need
If we want results we should stick to a method maybe tryout mono red for a start? i know two guys who might just be into it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:27 pm 
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WW, you can submit your Zombie aggro deck and that's it. I don't want to see no fog caca


I fog only but I never mill. There's a huge difference in there. Fogging is a strategy, milling is shady and disgusting!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Ones I think that should probably make top 30 (these are quick thoughts and include no details or decks):

Cars (either :r::b: or :r::b::w:)
:r:RDW
:w: Weenie/Humans (or :r::w: Humans or both!)
Zombies - probably :w::b:
:u::w::g: Tempo
:u::r: Thopters
:u::r: Control - draw/go
:u::w::b: Control - draw/go
:u::r::b: Control - creature control
Ramp - :g::r: or :g::u: (or my biased choice - just :g:!!) - could even consider :c: for an Eldrazi variant but regardless, there needs to be ramp in there.
:g::r: midrange (could be up for the same spot as the :g::r: ramp but there's a competitive deck in Gruul based on fatties)
Tokens - :w::b:
Mill - not sure of best color combination here
:b::r::g: energy
:b::g: counters

Fringe (not sure if they should be top 30)
Aristocrats
Reanimator


ack..gotta go! Will keep brainstorming though!



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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Forgetting Fling Drake combo, i kinda consider it my masterpiece and the perfect end for my duels deckbuilding. I have other 15 decks though, that i will probably use sometimes in koth if it will still be a thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:08 pm 
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This is a great idea.

LegenvD has had previous videos of the best decks in the format from Duels 2014 and Duels 2015 in which he organized a tournament and pitch them against each other. We can perhaps get these decks public on his channel so that his ideas don't completely run dry.

I'm throwing my hat in the ring by submitting my Bant Tempo & GeistRamp decks 'final cut'. GeistRamp was the most fun deck I've ever built and won me the Afterparty against DivineVert, and BantTempo handed me my first NGA Swiss Tournament win against CovertGo blue who was a GREAT player.

This brings a slight tear to my eye. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Yes those two decks are good but I build them better

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:12 pm 
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I think Gems Geistramp is the best build but others have done the Bant tempo better. I was actually going to submit Geistramp to this but didn't have time tonight

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:23 pm 
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Yes those two decks are good but I build them better

See this statement is definitely the point of this thread. If you think those decks should be in the top 30, then we put them up for voting/inclusion and then look at the cores of them.

I'd assume you both have cards that are must have's (core). Then you get to the fringe cards of the deck that make up the differences in approach etc. As long as we can define them as top 30 decks and identify their cores (say up to 30ish cards minus lands? that gives +/- 6 cards of variation. And the +/- is definitely up for discussion), we can debate/test the variations after and crown best version.

This is all meant to be a drawn out process to give us something to hang on to. I know they keep saying September HASCON for some info but I've seen this forums when we're weeks/months out from an expansion. If September is just an update, we're still X amount of time after September before the next release. We've all know first hand how Wizards operates and it's tough to have faith in their promises. That means X could be an extended timeline. I just foresee us (the forums) grinding to a halt during that amount of waiting and was trying to think of things that would give us some reason to continue. The problem with the Top 30 idea is that it's finite. Eventually we can agree (enough ;)) to hammer out the 30. We'll need more things like KOTH, Deck Building Contest, DotP Night, 10 games with, tournaments w/sideboard, tournaments w/restrictions (like one set only or pauper) etc. if we want to persist in anyway.

Anywho, didn't mean to derail this thread. Carry on. Go Geistramp! :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:30 pm 
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I think Gems Geistramp is the best build but others have done the Bant tempo better. I was actually going to submit Geistramp to this but didn't have time tonight

I actually forgot how to build GeistRamp so I dug up my tournament winning decklist in this subforum and replaced Nissa's Pilgrimage w/ Druid of the Cowl, replaced Displacement Wave w/ Baral's Expertise, and replaced Telling Time and Pore over the Pages with Pull from Tomorrow, Commit, and Thought-Knot. Up'ed the mana to 25 lands because I remembered being stuck on mana.

The reason I went with Geistblast was because Ulamog was not consistent enough against decks with W mana so I needed other ways to win. CGB's RG Ramp was consistent & UG Ramp deck on iOS won, and Donachaid's UG Ramp deck also won on Xbox. I just melded them together.

That Bant Flicker deck I ran into you on ladder the other day was brutal btw.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:41 pm 
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elk wrote:
Ones I think that should probably make top 30 (these are quick thoughts and include no details or decks):

Cars (either :r::b: or :r::b::w:)
:r:RDW
:w: Weenie/Humans (or :r::w: Humans or both!)
Zombies - probably :w::b:
:u::w::g: Tempo
:u::r: Thopters
:u::r: Control - draw/go
:u::w::b: Control - draw/go
:u::r::b: Control - creature control
Ramp - :g::r: or :g::u: (or my biased choice - just :g:!!) - could even consider :c: for an Eldrazi variant but regardless, there needs to be ramp in there.
:g::r: midrange (could be up for the same spot as the :g::r: ramp but there's a competitive deck in Gruul based on fatties)
Tokens - :w::b:
Mill - not sure of best color combination here
:b::r::g: energy
:b::g: counters

Fringe (not sure if they should be top 30)
Aristocrats
Reanimator


ack..gotta go! Will keep brainstorming though!



elk

All those list are prolific and all but what about Elves, Allies, UR Eldrazi, Prowess, Tides, etc.

Anyone who has ever played Magic Duels since its inception remembers how viral Elves were on ladder but no one would play it in tournaments. Still a good deck.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:51 am 
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elk wrote:
Ones I think that should probably make top 30 (these are quick thoughts and include no details or decks):

Cars (either :r::b: or :r::b::w:)
:r:RDW
:w: Weenie/Humans (or :r::w: Humans or both!)
Zombies - probably :w::b:
:u::w::g: Tempo
:u::r: Thopters
:u::r: Control - draw/go
:u::w::b: Control - draw/go
:u::r::b: Control - creature control
Ramp - :g::r: or :g::u: (or my biased choice - just :g:!!) - could even consider :c: for an Eldrazi variant but regardless, there needs to be ramp in there.
:g::r: midrange (could be up for the same spot as the :g::r: ramp but there's a competitive deck in Gruul based on fatties)
Tokens - :w::b:
Mill - not sure of best color combination here
:b::r::g: energy
:b::g: counters

Fringe (not sure if they should be top 30)
Aristocrats
Reanimator


ack..gotta go! Will keep brainstorming though!



elk


Agree with these.
Burn definitely also makes the list (Alchemist + prowess + burn + card draw).
Ramp is also good enough to be in there with those other ramp variants.
Control. Not as versatile as Esper or Grixis control but still very effective and less janky mana.

is the best mill colour, I believe. Cathartic Reunion and Collective Defiance are brutal with Tutelage.

I think my artefact/improvise build might even squeeze in.. It had an amazing record at high levels in the previous expansion


@ GeMiNi; There has been too many board wipes added since Origins for Elves to still be right up there. It can't recover the way other go-wide decks can (such as zombies). Still a good deck if you don't mind the odd auto-loss to sweepers.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:34 am 
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I think Gems Geistramp is the best build but others have done the Bant tempo better. I was actually going to submit Geistramp to this but didn't have time tonight

I actually forgot how to build GeistRamp so I dug up my tournament winning decklist in this subforum and replaced Nissa's Pilgrimage w/ Druid of the Cowl, replaced Displacement Wave w/ Baral's Expertise, and replaced Telling Time and Pore over the Pages with Pull from Tomorrow, Commit, and Thought-Knot. Up'ed the mana to 25 lands because I remembered being stuck on mana.

The reason I went with Geistblast was because Ulamog was not consistent enough against decks with W mana so I needed other ways to win. CGB's RG Ramp was consistent & UG Ramp deck on iOS won, and Donachaid's UG Ramp deck also won on Xbox. I just melded them together.

That Bant Flicker deck I ran into you on ladder the other day was brutal btw.


thanks, yeah I think that Tempophonic deck might be the best one of those builds I have, not sure.


So the build I'm playing from you on Geistblast doesn't actually have Telling Time or Pore over the Pages. You had swapped those out a long time ago. I'll make the Druid of the Cowl and Displacement Wave swaps (I'll miss the latter) though.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:49 am 
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don't listen to him. only creature should be murasa and no more. if you absolutely want some you can consider 2 baral but druid does not belong to fireball ramp.

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