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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Well, I've watched some 150 anime over the last few years, and I wanted to do something of this sort with a bit better standards then my own personal ones, so I've had a good long think about it and here is the list of anime I would recommend other people go out of their way to watch (assuming that kind of thing for each show is their cup of tea). Unfortunately a lot of my favorites don't make the list, but I have a tendency to recommend everything (as seen in the other thread) so that can't be helped.

- Baccano
- Black Butler (up to the point where it diverges from the manga) and then Black Butler: Book of Circus
- Black Lagoon
- Casshern Sins
- Cowboy Bebop
- Death Parade
- Fate/Zero
- Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood
- Ghost Hunt
- Hellsing Ultimate
- K
- Kill la Kill
- Madoka Magica
- Naruto (the original; not Shippuden)
- No Game No Life
- Psycho Pass
- Trigun

I am ready to defend any of these. Or if you think I left anything off the list I'm prepared to get yelled at.

On the opposite end, the list of things you should never watch is:
- A Dark Rabbit has 7 Lives
- Chaos;Head
- Comical Psychosomatic Medicine
- Everyday Life With Monster Girls
- Rosario X Vampire
- Strike the Blood
- Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase

I want to forget these exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:04 pm 
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- Baccano Agreed
- Black Butler (up to the point where it diverges from the manga) and then Black Butler: Book of Circus Agreed
- Black Lagoon Agreed
- Casshern Sins Agreed
- Cowboy Bebop Agreed
- Death Parade Agreed
- Fate/Zero Agreed
- Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood Agreed, though really you should prioritize Fullmetal Alchemist first.
- Ghost Hunt Agreed
- Hellsing Ultimate Agreed, same thing with watching Hellsing first.
- K Agreed
- Kill la Kill Agreed
- Madoka Magica Agreed
- Naruto (the original; not Shippuden) Agreed, but also Shuppuden
- No Game No Life Agreed
- Psycho Pass Agreed
- Trigun Agreed

On the opposite end, the list of things you should never watch is:
- A Dark Rabbit has 7 Lives Haven't seen
- Chaos;Head Disagree While it was a bit nonsense, it was still a good experience.
- Comical Psychosomatic Medicine Disagree It had a good sense of humor and the blatant attack on Otaku was utterly hilarious.
- Everyday Life With Monster Girls Disagree So, you just dislike blatant fanservice? I mean, certainly if you dislike fanservice you should avoid a show that is essentially just fanservice, but to say the show is something you should never watch when it is one of the better ecchi shows out there...
- Rosario X Vampire Haven't seen much
- Strike the Blood Disagree
- Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase Haven't seen much

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:14 pm 
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I personally liked

A Bridge to the Starrie Skies
Baka and Test
Blood Lad
Demon King Daimao
Dog Days
FLCL
Heaven's Lost Property
High School of the Dead
Is This a Zombie?
Inu X Boku SS
Kill-la-Kill
Nisekoi
Space Dandy
Unbreakable Machine Doll

^ And many more that don't come to mind right now.


If I had a problem with fan-service, I would be in deep ****.

There is a point where an anime is basically just fan-service with no real redeeming qualities. I think Monster Girls, Rosario, and Strike the Blood basically reached this point.

Rosario is also the worst anime I've watched. I know of worse anime, but I have not actually sat down and watched them. <- Do not even watch this to figure out what I am talking about.

---------------

I don't think Chaos;head was a good experience (matter of opinion I guess), and yes it was nonsense. It wasn't a very good plot even once I understood what was going on, and there wasn't anything really redeeming about the characters or the story that made up for it.

---------------

I don't think Comical Psychosomatic Medicine was funny.




Edit:

Responding to the other part of it...

I liked Fullmetal Alchemist and Shippuden, but I can't really recommend them yay or nay to people. It's like DBZ, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Soul Eater, One Piece, etc. If those shows are your cup of tea you'e probably already heard of and watched them anyways, but I don't consider most anime like this to be anything special.

I liked the Hellsing OVA better, but again I don't think it makes a list of "things you should definitely go watch". I'm the first to admit that at least the last story arc is kind of ****, and I think Ultimate did a bit better job with that. I would also say Ultimate did a better job with the shared material. I basically like the OVA more because I watched it first and I don't like change.

I was trying to come up with a list of things that really stood out to me for one reason or another, once I got past some personal biases.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:40 pm 
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I think the point of some anime is to be ecchi fanservice and I find that a poor reason to just say "Avoid This" without any more detail. Certainly, some people will not want to watch a show centered about that content, but many people will. Also, I don't really agree that Strike the Blood was a show centered on fanservice.

I think Chaos;head reach the "so bad it's good" point, though it took a while to get to that point. Still, I would say it was an enjoyable experience, which is obviously a matter of opinion. Of course, so is most of what we are discussing.

Humor is also very subjective, though I feel like putting a comedy on a list to avoid because you personally didn't find it funny is a bit overkill.

I would wholeheartedly recommend FMA since I have always felt it was the stronger of the two anime. Of course, some people prefer the later adaptation, which is also exceptionally good, but FMA tells a story of an unfair world in such an unapologetic manner that it just works. Brotherhood, on the other hand, was more a straight good versus evil. Both good, but FMA will always be my personal favorite and the first I would recommend people see. Also, I am hoping your reference to long-running Shonen is more addressed at Shippuden because honestly Brotherhood was more like a long-running Shonen than FMA ever was, not counting the fact that FMA was actually fairly short.

Shippuden is more just "Here's more Naruto." I don't really think of the two as separate shows. It seems unusual to me to recommend one, but not the other.

I think you better appreciate Hellsing Ultimate by first seeing Hellsing, though I would agree Hellsing Ultimate was better. I watched Hellsing first, btw.

I understand your list is your opinion. I just mostly disagree with the idea of saying "avoid this" to a bunch of shows that seem to be at least lower middle in terms of quality. I've heard bad things about Rosario Vampire, but I can recall shows I've watched that approach a point where one might consider them as wasting time (I have trouble with that idea because usually I have more than enough free time that I don't feel like I would use the time more appropriately.), so naturally if someone is trying to deter people from watching some acceptable to decent anime, I feel mildly compelled to disagree.

On a side note, how did you like Inu X Boku SS?

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:28 am 
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I am going to attempt to individually discuss some of these. Unfortunately this is the only post I have time to make for a while.

Strike the Blood is a show where the main character keeps getting into situations where he has to suck girl's blood to get more power. But it has to be a different girl each time (if I remember right?) and it doesn't work until the obligatory scene where they make him horny but are really embarrassed about it. Combine this with an astounding amount of deus ex machina (the show is basically "get into trouble, get new power, new power solves all problems, repeat" in the worst way possible), no really stand-out characters, and writing that gets annoying as **** ("no senpai this is our fight" :bang:) and you basically have the show. It's formulaic and annoying and basically characterizes the main criticisms people have both about ecchi anime AND about shows like DBZ without something really positive or unique to make up for it. There's almost no character development. It's repetitive and predictable. The fighting scenes are boring. It's a bland over-sexualized harem anime with nothing to recommend it, and reasons to not recommend it, so your time is better spent watching something else. That is why people should avoid it. There are hundreds of harem anime out there that deserve it more and multiple people on this thread could even recommend much better ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:12 am 
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I don't recall the bit about it having to be a different girl each time, though it has been a while.

I feel like there was fanservice at a frequent pace, but the focus was on the story at hand. As bad as the storytelling was, the emphasis was still on it the majority of the time. While the show had its flaws, I can't say that I found it to be non-stop ecchi with a flimsy narrative stapled on to it. Something I could say about shows like Testament or Masuo Gakuen. The show legitimately felt like they were trying, not just tacking on a narrative to fill runtime between the fanservice content.

As to whether or not you should recommend it, I am mostly opposing the act of trying to recommend not watching it. I think there are plenty of people out there who enjoyed Strike the Blood, so putting it into a category of "Never" seems radical. There are many people who enjoy the dumb, straightforward Shonen formula and there are many people who enjoy fanservice. I recall at least 3 people discussing the show with me back when it was airing who felt it was great. It may not make the cut for people who don't enjoy either of those things, but I am just overly bothered by the idea of trying to dissuade people from watching it.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:44 am 
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chaos;head is amazing what is wrong with you

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:40 pm 
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The most distilled form of fanservice anime in the known universe had its pilot episode drop last week.

Quote:
The series is set in an alternate reality where a new, women-only, gambling sport known as "keijo", quickly becomes a fad in Japan since its introduction in the dawn of the 21st century. Keijo matches are held atop floating platforms in large water-filled stadiums where bikini-clad players fight to incapacitate their opponents or push them out to the water, but they can only hit each other using their breasts or buttocks.

Nozomi Kaminashi is a gifted gymnast who decides to give up her dream of competing in the Olympics and become a keijo player instead, aiming for the high earnings offered there, in order to get herself and her younger siblings out of poverty. As she enters the world of keijo, Nozomi soon makes new friends and rivals, while learning that the way to fame and fortune in this new, uncommon sport will have more challenges than she ever imagined.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:31 pm 
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Not really. I was expecting a raunchy comedy, but the show appears to be taking itself quite seriously. It is not what I would've expected, though I am grateful for any ecchi show that is engaging beyond the ecchi scenes.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:50 pm 
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How's the new Berserk stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:20 pm 
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I watched an episode and felt lost enough to put it down and decide I need to go watch the old stuff at some point. I wasn't much of a fan of the over application of blatant 3D CGI.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:33 pm 
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I think the general response to berserk has been "why did you do this" in the same way of how you might ask a friend why he killed your parents and wore their entrails at a catwalk in new york.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:41 pm 
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Is the new black butler any good?

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:12 pm 
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@nikior,

Just because someone enjoyed something is not a reason to watch that show. A lot of people like a lot of bland harem animes. In the case of Strike the Blood, I feel I have adequately explained why I think it is at a minimum a waste of time, and I need something to argue against other than "I don't remember it being that bad and some people like it so you shouldn't say to never watch it" for this conversation to go any further. You aren't really defending the show so much as saying "it wasn't that bad". Great. So it's a harem anime with lots of fan-service and a generic story with little to no character development and mostly boring action scenes. But "at least it tried to have a plot and it wasn't all fan service".

--------------------

@Cato, I've not seen the most recent one because Funimation is mikling it right now and it won't be somewhere I can legally watch it for a while.

Book of Circus was pretty good (or at least I thought so enough to put it on the above list). It's an "alternate" timeline that follows the manga, starting where Season 1 of the show diverged from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:00 am 
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Niklor wrote:
Not really. I was expecting a raunchy comedy, but the show appears to be taking itself quite seriously. It is not what I would've expected, though I am grateful for any ecchi show that is engaging beyond the ecchi scenes.

You're right. My wife and I gave it a spin last night and it was far more enjoyable than the descriptions and the previews made it seem. It was actually engaging enough that I think we added it to our que to follow.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:53 am 
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Mown wrote:
I think the general response to berserk has been "why did you do this" in the same way of how you might ask a friend why he killed your parents and wore their entrails at a catwalk in new york.


I dunno what it says about me, but that's one of the only mangas where I was snared from the first volume and have since been hooked. My favorite arc is still the first one in the manga with the Godhand.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:23 am 
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@Mark777
Exactly. It wasn't that bad. I am not saying it is a reason to go and watch it. I am saying that it is a reason to not steer people clear from it. I am not saying you should recommend it. I am saying I don't see why you are recommending people never watch it. Again, not trying to get you to go around praising the show. I just think it is not appropriate to encourage people to never watch something with very little reasoning as to why they shouldn't.

@AzureShade
There are still going to be a lot of people who can't get over the constant barrage of boobs and butts being blasted at them, but there is clear reason to believe that this is going to be a serious sports drama. I probably wouldn't have believed it without watching it, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Mown wrote:
I think the general response to berserk has been "why did you do this" in the same way of how you might ask a friend why he killed your parents and wore their entrails at a catwalk in new york.


I dunno what it says about me, but that's one of the only mangas where I was snared from the first volume and have since been hooked. My favorite arc is still the first one in the manga with the Godhand.

Yeah I mean the manga is pretty well-received, which is why people have such a strong reaction to the anime adaptation.
I have neither watched or read it, just heard praise and hatred for the manga and anime respectively on various podcasts and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:32 pm 
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I will repeat my self.

It is a bad show and you should not watch it, because it is a waste of time and there is absolutely nothing to recommend it over anything else. It is mediocre to poor in every aspect, and it is actively bad/annoying at points. There are hundreds of anime out there and dozens of better harem anime out there. It is perfectly valid to say a show that is mostly bland crap at its best is something you shouldn't take the time to sit down and watch when there is plenty of stuff out there that isn't that you should go watch instead. That is in the fact a large part of the point behind recommending something or telling people not to watch it. The fact that you cannot really defend the show demonstrates that people shouldn't go and watch it. They should go watch good shows instead and not waste their time. If you think people should still try Strike the Blood, you should actively tell me why it specifically deserves people's time.


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 Post subject: Re: Anime
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:01 pm 
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@Mark777
I am not advocating for it to be recommended, though. My position is, and always was, that you shouldn't slap it down on a list and say don't watch and not say more on it. Really, shows shouldn't be recommended without some additional info, but when you are going out of your way to dissuade people from something, it feels like there should be a greater burden on the individual to say why they think other people should avoid it. Certainly, anyone using a review should probably also be highly inquisitive to avoid such a situation as missing out on a show they would have enjoyed watching, but I feel that doesn't mean you should put as little info as possible in the first place.

As for Strike the Blood, it is supernatural action show with a strong splash of ecchi rom/com. While it is nothing exceptional, it does it's job. Unless you are particularly strained for time, there is no particularly reason to avoid it. While there is nothing it does particularly well, the only real flaw was the weakness of the writing. The action is still engaging and the familiar ecchi scenes and harem antics are amusing. While there are certainly other anime you should prioritize viewing, if you feel a particular pull towards supernatural action or ecchi rom/com, you should give it a look some time if you don't know what you should watch.

...

Let me nitpick this, though.

mark777 wrote:
It is a bad show and you should not watch it, because it is a waste of time and there is absolutely nothing to recommend it over anything else.


It is not the bottom of the barrel. While we might debate on exactly what is at the bottom of the barrel in anime, Strike The Blood isn't it. So, there absolutely is something to recommend it over anything else that is worse than it.

Unless you somehow meant it wasn't a show that had something that could be recommended of any other show, which is a confusing thought given how there are probably few shows that can do that with any relevant meaning.

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