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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:19 am 
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Maybe just me but dropped the deck after 10 losses...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:15 am 
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ok Haven this deck looks like a total blast. I'll print it off and try it out for sure. I'm surprised you got blown out by Inevitability. you don't seem to have that many dead cards to that deck, just the axes.

anyway, thanks for following up and for the great card by card analysis. Can't wait to try it. I'm still playing your Reanimator deck too. I'm SO bad at it but it still keeps a winning record so I'll try to get better at it. I just have so much trouble discarding big creatures when I'm only a turn away from hard casting them. But almost everytime discarding them is the right move. Anyway, we're not here to talk about that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:01 pm 
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Your welcome Barney, hope you have as much fun with it as I had :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Updated, this is kinda the final version. Anyone can help test it? Missing the Devilballs (that should be considered a burn), the Mirror Dragon and a couple of other burns till now, so I'm filling with other burns/creatures.
2 Crumbling Vestige help out for a 3 damage Radiant Flames (I moved down from 3 to 2 after a game while I was with 2 crumbling vestige... and I drew another. That **** up my curve a bit, so no more than 2, thanks).
Remember that Westvale Abbey is not a filler, you are full of token stuff in this deck. I already got him onto field a couple of times :)
Try to 1:1 cards for the first 2-3 turns, removing early treaths, then try to 2:1 from turn 3 to turn 5 (Radiant Flames, Savage Alliance), then start dropping crazy **** from turn 5 till the end. Slow but steady damage, some test/opinions would be appreciated :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Haven, tried it out versus AI last night and it went undefeated so I think I'm ready to bring it to the main arena. It's REALLY fun to play. I think I may have underestimated Neonate since....well...forever. The fact that it starts with Menace is crazy. I think you might be wrong in playing only 2 copies of Glory Chaser cuz the whole point of running him is for a turn one drop. But still, results don't lie.

I misplayed versus blue a bunch cuz I was going tall instead of wide and against bounce removal, you gotta go wide. That thing that lets you cycle your hand is really tricky. I had an axe and that +2/+2 enchantment in my hand with 6 open mana and decided to cycle the hand instead, "I can do better than this" which was risky because I had one menace creature on board and seemed to be in control of the match, but decided to roll the dice and I can't remember what I drew but it won me the game.

I can't say it enough, I hate Brutal Explosion. I have no idea how to use that card properly. I never seem to hold up the mana. There always seems to be something better to do.

anyway, it was really fun to play.

I also went undefeated versus AI with Inevitability and um... Zerris' Azban. I forget the name, it's got a cool name.

The only deck I was comfy taking into the pubs last night was Brute of the Loom and Covert's Lycans. So much fun.

man, what a great time to be playing Duels. I don't remember having this much variety of decks. I'm up to 17 (!!) decks now.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:19 pm 
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I had hoped you'd like it Barney. :)
I've actually never used the Collective Defiance cycle ability, because the cards I'm hanging on to are usually finishing cards, so it usually 4cmc for 4 damage to a creature, 3 to face. Bedlam Reveler on the other hand is a dump as much of your hand as you can and just play it card. Hasn't let me down yet. I kind of want to play the 2nd, but getting both in hand is just bad... The only reason I only play 2 Glory seeker is because they're pretty bad mid-game, often discard fodder... The card that has really shine in Hanweir Garrison, such a Monster card... Still haven't melded it though.

Btw, brutal expulsion isn't my cup of tea either. Overpriced and seemingly underpowered, but that's just me...

I've been messing around with a bunch of unplayable silly decks, not much success. Having a hard time coming up with competitive off-beat decks.
Tried and failed to make a good mono Black aggro deck, even built a mono Green Wolf deck (works but is kind of bland...), tried a zombie emerge deck with mixed results...
I think I'll try counter-alchemist next (already tried creatureless draw-burn, with passable results)
I was happy to know the Reanimator deck hasn't been deleted, I can always revisit that...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:23 pm 
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I cast Brutal Expulsion all the time and I always feel great afterwards.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
I think I'll try counter-alchemist next (already tried creatureless draw-burn, with passable results)


I think that deck has potential. A week or so ago, I got wrecked because I did not respect Alchemist enough. Since then, it is a priority to take out. I think that there is a deck where the Alchemist puts it over the top. Heck, even in a Prowess deck, it could do great damage with out having to be the focus of the deck.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Hakeem, give us some tips on Brutal Explosion. I have no idea how to use it.

Haven, if you think Glory Chaser is awful mid-game, then that's even less of a reason to only play 2. Because with 1 or 2 copies, your chance of ONLY getting it mid-game is much, much higher. Whereas if you run 3 (and cut, say, a brutal explosion) then you're much more likely to be satisfied with your opening draw (especially with a free mulligan). I think it's one of those easy cards to deckbuild since you will play 0 or 3 copies. Nothing in between.

Anyway, I'll keep playing it for sure. in fact, JUST BECAUSE OF THIS DECK, i changed the background on all 17 of my decks to the red molten lava one to celebrate Barney's return to mono-red. Because of how buggy the xbox version is, changing 17 deck backgrounds took more over ten minutes. UGH

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:48 pm 
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I'll have to make a Brutal Expulsion video. YouTube would probably censor it, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:06 pm 
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lol, i'd watch that.

I mean, I get Brutal Explosion, i know what it does. What I don't get is why I'd use it over other things in my hand with this specific deck. It seems several times that I can hold up the mana to brutally explode all over my opponents chest, face and hair or I could simply play some of the other awesome utility spells instead.

yeah, i think i need a tutorial on how to use this card optimally. Like someone (Hakeem?) just did in some discussion with Rabble on how to optimally line up the t2, t3 plays for decks with transformable cards. When you understand the ideal way a card is meant to be played in a SPECIFIC DECK, you basically get to know how to use it sub-optimally as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:47 pm 
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Hey Barney, I get the idea we're not talking about the same card, brutal expulsion is a gold Blue/Red Instant. I don't have any in my deck, so what exactly do you call brutal explosion?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:54 pm 
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....oh man, I'm mixing up Inevitability with your deck. I'm trying too much stuff at the same time. You guys run some of the same red stuff

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:02 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I cast Brutal Expulsion all the time and I always feel great afterwards.

Who ever has to clean up after probably doesn't.


Hakeem, give us some tips on Brutal Explosion. I have no idea how to use it.
Hakeem928 wrote:
I'll have to make a Brutal Expulsion video. YouTube would probably censor it, though.
lol, i'd watch that.

:takei::takei::takei::ookay::ookay::ookay:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Hakeem, give us some tips on Brutal Explosion. I have no idea how to use it.



Here are the main ways I use it:

Vs agro decks, it lets you catch up a turn. As example, they play T1 dude, I kill it. They play T2 guy, kill it. Play T3 guy....if I can take a hit for a turn, and it is 2 toughness or less, I play Visions or Tutelage. They play T4 dude, I Expulse, and we are back to the regular rhythm with me only taking 1 swing. I consider it like a mini Radiant flames in this respect. Otherwise, I have to have a sweeper in hand, leave a threat on the board, or delay Tutelage.

Good vs Gideon. Honestly, this is normally just a one turn delay, but sometimes two if they cast before they swing w/ Gideon. Brutal kills the dude and returns Gideon to hand. This can also work to lure Gideon into a Bessed Alliance trap if you have 6 mana and they have 2 or less creatures attacking w/ him. Also, I will sometimes let Gideon hit, and bounce on his endstep, then get my Gideon on the field first. Generally, he who sticks Gideon first wins that battle.

Good vs Manlands. It is an instant, so sometimes just the 2 points for 4 mana is welcome enough vs some manlands. Other times all it does is bounce a land while hopefully killing some critter. This takes the Manland out of action for at least 2 turns before they can attack again w/ it. Basically, the instant response is the selling point. The deck has 7 other instants, but combat tricks really mess up maths for some plays.

Vs ramp and such I often use to bounce/counter a threat I don't have answers to. Bonus points if they have a walker out I can ping. Extra bonus points if you have a Collective Defiance in hand.

Late game vs many decks, it is almost as good as a counterspell. You are 1-2 turns away from winning, and a Brutal will keep that pesky Rise from the Tides from resolving on your endstep. Basically, if I am ahead, I start leaving mana open and playing very reactionary, esp if I have a brutal in hand. I LOVE using it on an opponents Gaea's when he thinks he has the game won.

Although I don't use often, the ability to exile is useful. Bombardment and Brutal = no card when you kill Greenwarden.

Tokens of course are a great target. As are targets of auras

One thing to note when you target two things.....I do not believe your opponent can tell what has been targeted to be damaged and what has been targeted to be bounced. That can make your opponent make some tough choices.

Walkers are a common target. Some walkers you need to kill asap, and this is one of a few spells in my deck that can target them. Other Walkers you don't really care about unless they ultimate. Ob Nixilis is an example. Many times you don't care if he draws a card and does a point to your opponent, but the ultimate is game over. This gives another option to keep the ultimate from happening, at least for a few more turns. Best case if you counter a spell and get your points in on him.

As mentioned w/ Gaeas, it stops spells that normally can not be countered. At 4 life vs RDW? You are safe if he has 5 or less mana and no board. Even his Exquisite Firecraft will not win him the game.

As implied earlier, works well with collective defiance to get rid of problems for good. Also works w/ Fevered Visions to make sure they take damage.

Basically, it is great when you can 2-1 with it (Token or Aura bounce + Creature), and vs agro you often can. It is also great protection when you are ahead and just need some time. At worse it is an overcosted Unsustanuate and/or base Bombardment, and sometimes you will be glad to have that option. It is not a card that I actively hope to draw, but it is a card that I never regret having in my hand.

I really like the card, but I think it has to have the right deck

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:39 pm 
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I can't say it enough, I hate Brutal Explosion. I have no idea how to use that card properly. I never seem to hold up the mana. There always seems to be something better to do.
...

I also went undefeated versus AI with Inevitability


How many times did you time out playing it? :p man, I'd love to watch that stream, IDGAF that you were just playing AI

I don't understand how people have trouble with expulsion - not just you, but I've seen a number of people complain about it on this forum... I almost always get value out of both modes when I play it; it's often enough that I don't feel hate towards it when I need to cast it in an emergency to only bounce or kill something at a higher cost than normal. It doesn't belong in every deck that runs its colors, but the utility value is great for certain builds. Taking 2 creatures off the board (or exiling that PW that just ticked down to 2 or less) and setting opp back a turn for 4CMC is niiice.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:58 am 
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If I cast Brutal Explosion I am getting value out of it, that's not the problem i have with the card. The problem is I never seem to be able to decide when to hold up 4 mana to play that instead of doing something else. Something else seems to always win the argument.

I was only playing AI to get used to the deck, it's ready to be taken out into the real world now. Since I auto delete any deck that loses it's first versus match, I like to give the deck a shot against the AI once before it gets its real audition.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:37 am 
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I'll give another call for it, anyone here available for play on 2HG with a couple of mono red decks? :)

EDIT: Here a link to Head 1 and Head 2 :D :D :D

https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... e241fc1ab3
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 07ea1abc55

Head 2 is more board control oriented, while Head 1 have some fatty creatures too. Kinda. Hum, would really like to test them with someone :) They could be improved ofc.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:18 am 
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I rode the El Loco 3.0 build all the way to rank 40, so I guess its as finished as its going to get. I believe the haste Kaladesh brought to mono-red makes it an overall better deck and even more dangerous than the previous iterations, so beware when your opponent drops a T1 mountain!

El Loco Rdw aggro 3.0

Description
Kaladesh update for the deck, with energy replacing most of the madness.

Creature(22)
2x Bomat Courier
3x Insolent Neonate
2x Goblin Glory Chaser
3x Thriving Grubs
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
2x Lathnu Hellion
3x Brazen Scourge
2x Hanweir Garrison
2x Impetuous Devils
1x Bedlam Reveler

Instant(10)
4x Titan's Strength
2x Harnessed Lightning
4x Fiery Temper

Sorcery(4)
2x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Collective Defiance

Planeswalker(1)
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Artifact(2)
2x Smuggler's Copter

Land(21)
3x Looming Spires
15x Mountain
2x Hanweir Battlements
1x Aether Hub

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... a96018d85c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

Card-by Card Analysis:

Bomat Courier.
Red wanted a hasty 1-drop and got this, which is even better. Only real issue is the face down exile, because you never really know whats under there, but don't be afraid to sac it if it has more cards under it than you have in hand. You should try to keep that 1 red mana open, just in case. But since its an on-attack trigger, you can can attack to get another card off it and sac if its going to die. Its nice to see opponents having to waste removal on a 1/1 to avoid letting you get massive card advantage and if you fiery temper in hand to discard... its all good.

Insolent Neonate
The neonate is still a work horse in this deck. The Bomat courier "stole" a slot from the neonates, but the deck could benefit from the 4th one. Having 1 drops in your opening hand is usually a good sign, especially with titan's strength. They actually work well with the bomats, because in case of a sweeper, sac the neonate then sac the bomat in response and you get an extra card off a card your were going to discard anyway. Menace is very relevant to get a few points of damage through and discarding a temper to neonate is a good play, if you need to kill something asap at a lower cost and netting a card.

Goblin Glory Chaser
The Old-school 1-drop. Its still good and got slightly better with the copters and hanweir battlements. Whenever you have multiple 1-drops in your opening hand, this should be your first play, because you get the most value when it can hit while your opponent is still dropping tap-lands. Giving it haste with battlements gets some sneaky renown triggers. When it can't really do much because of blockers, its a good choice to pilot the copters.

Thriving Grubs
Now this is a card that over-performed. It looks pretty meh at first glance, but in fact it is a 3/2 for 2cmc (which is nothing to scoff at) or a 2/1 that lets lathnu hit another turn. If you happen to have spare energy (like when lathnu gets killed by instant speed removal, leftovers for harnessed lightning, etc...), it just keeps growing becoming a real threat by itself. It has been a good replacement for makindi sliderunners, because although they lack trample, are more consistently 3/2s.

Abbot of Keral Keep
The card advantage of Abbot is undeniable. That's why I play them, the prowess is very secondary. When you really need burn or even another land, Abbot can get you a little bit closer to finding it and provide a body that can be a threat in itself. Its often not a great T2 play, so you should really only play it when you have a slow hand and lack threats. Its a good card to keep around in your hand to play when you start running out of cards and have 4/5 lands in play.

Lathnu Hellion
I was skeptical. I'm convinced now. The hellion can well be 2 firecrafts for 3cmc. There are very few 2-3 or even 4 drops that can trade or block with it, and letting it hit face takes a big slice out of your life. Using removal on it also feels bad, because you know its gonna die by itself soon enough. That's why dropping some grubs after hitting with lathnu is such a good play, you can keep it around for another hit, which is always painful for your opponent.

Brazen Scourge
Lathnu's younger brother is also strong. If lathnu is 2x firecraft, Scourge is unlimited fiery tempers. A 3/3 hasty body on T3 just wrecks T2 abbot and is a considerable body to keep providing damage and forcing your opponent to chump or risk getting into burn range. The haste is also great for eliminating pesky PWs (Lillys for example) that keep on showing up, but I keep on finding that with mono-red you should forget walkers and always hit face, because they dilute your damage and give your opponent too much breathing room.

Hanweir Garrison
It sounds impossible, but garrison actually got better this season. How? The other threats got better, so chances are your opponent has already had to use his removal already, so when garrison drops, he's usually in a hard place. And garrison really should be the last 3-drop you play for that reason and also because sweepers happen. Garrison is awesome to give you a board presence after a sweeper and just flood your opponent with too many tokens. Another curious fact is that I've melded it a lot more in this deck, just because it lives longer and you usually throw the hasty 3-drops first, so when it does hit, you often have enough land to go hasty and meld next turn (if you also have battlements out).

Impetuous Devils
I said before that it is better than a vehicle and I maintain my opinion. Why? Its removal, that does some extra damage and also removes a key blocker from an alpha-strike. Its the kind of card that can really swing games. Like when your opponent drops avancyn and feels pretty smug that he can start to control the board and even flip her from a chump block to get a sweeper effect. The devils swing in, kill avacyn, do 2 damage to face and stop her from blocking your other threats. Its really good against anything with vigilance really, abbots, etc... Only down side is first strike, you really gotta burn those or wait til they get tapped, but white aggro is getting played less and less (due to getting almost nothing from kaladesh), so that hasn't been an issue.

Bedlam Reveler
This deck is not just about beatdown, its got some great ways to avoid running out of cards and getting solid card advantage. Reveler is just that. There are enough instants and sorceries to easily cast it for 4 or less and when in those moments that both players are in top-decking mode and you drop this, you get all sorts of rage-quits (even when you only draw crap). The body in considerable, that 4 toughness lets it resist the copter removal (although it does just die most of the time, because any removal your opponent has been saving he will use on him asap) but even if he bites the bullet, you just got 3 extra cards. Prowess is gravy.

Titan's Strength
This is the best card in the deck. 3 extra damage is gravy. Its all about the fixing. This lets you keep 2 lander hands with minimum risk. This gives you threats when you need them. It also gets you closer to burn range, faster. Ideally, you should drop a 1-drop T1, then if you don't draw a third land or don't have the third land already, cast it on the 1-drop for 4 damage and ditch whatever card isn't a land that shows up on scry. It can also be an insurance policy, because since you know what your going to top-deck next turn, its like playing with an extra card. Be very careful with bomat though, always cast titan's strength after bomat's exile trigger or you'll exile the card you were supposed to draw.

Harnessed Lightning
This is the only card in the deck I'm not entirely sold on. I guess I just dislike that it doesn't hit face, but it kills copters and abbots and can sometimes leave some energy leftover to pump grubs or get another swing out of a lathnu, so the synergy is there and is actually needed.

Fiery Temper
This is your main copter-removal tool. Its also a good T3 play, to get a blocker out of the way of your 1 and 2 drops. Its also a good way to kill your opponent. Also great value with neonate/copter/bomat/reveler discard effects. Its a great card and looking back, I can't imagine why the hell I only played 2 in my first attempt at the 3.0 build...

Exquisite Firecraft
:Hears the Mortal Kombat commentator say: Finnish him!:
Another old-timer than just hasn't been out-classed yet. When that fiery temper just won't get there, firecraft him! The uncounterable aspect is also very relevant when you face something with counterspells. Nobody feels safe at 4 life against mono-red.

Collective Defiance
What an awesome card. Fabulous T4 play, hit face, remove the best blocker and hit with your 1,2 and 3 drop... That's a whole lot of damage. The wheel effect isn't very relevant unless you got a hand full of land or you know that your opponent has something REALLY good in his hand that he's gonna play next turn (like after casting a diabolic tutor. Never happened to me, but is a good example).

Chandra, Torch of Defiance
The problem with flip chandra was that she had to survive a turn... 90% of the time it just didn't happen. When she did flip, it was usually enough to win. New Chandra doesn't need to flip and she's good in most situations too. Her +1 Ramp lets you drop her T4 and put down a 2-drop too. Her other +1 is good for card advantage or a bit of extra damage, but it sucks that you can't play lands sometimes. Her -3 is like using a firecraft as removal, its useful but leaves you in a bad place. Her ultimate is rare, but is almost an auto-win.

Smuggler's Copter
Need I say anything at all? We all knew it was good and we weren't wrong. In a deck with fiery tempers is even better, in a deck with 1-drops too. The looting is really good to smooth out your draws, but more often than not, its gonna eat removal, because everyone is waiting for it. But that's 1 less kill spell to hit your garrison...

Looming Spires
Its an extra 1 damage. First strike is also very relevant early to get your damage through or force bad chumps. Just plan your land drops accordingly, so that the enters tapped doesn't slow you down too much.

Hanweir Battlements
Why play battlements when you have heaps of hasty critters? Duh! To make the one's that aren't hasty too...

Aether Hub
Why play a singleton Aether Hub? Well, sometimes harnessed lightning leaves you with 1 useless left-over energy counter. The grubs and lathnus only use energy in pairs, so its that extra point of energy to even it out. I guess it can also let your hit for 4 damage with harnessed lighting too. The impact on the mana base is minimal, that's why its a singleton. Anymore could give you a hard time with all the RR CCs and since you already have the battlements...

So there you go, have fun!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:33 am 
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Haven, i'm looking to perfect my playing of your deck so i hope it's okay to talk about some of the cards. I think i'm 10-0 with it right now, it's very much my type of deck and my favourite mono-red since Pure's Furnace deck from origins which was INSANE.

Priority for T1 drops are Bomat, then Glory Chaser, then Neonate? I'm tempted to put Glory Chaser first but I'm not sure...it sounds like you prioritize Glory Chaser, which probably makes sense.

What did Speed Racer get replaced by?

I need help understand the Grubs. If I have a Hellion out, i should prioritize the energy going towards the Hellion and not the counter, correct? That's what I've been doing.

No need to comment on this but i'm amazed as a red mage, you were skeptical of the Hellion. I knew it would be insane immediately in a mono-red deck with removal. Like you said it's double firecraft.

I really don't like how Bomat, Scourge and Battlements don't get along with Copter but that's ok. It's a first-world problem in many ways.

I also really don't get Aether Hub here. We're not playing enough lands to take this risk. We have 15 non-tap red sources in a deck that 100% needs to come out on curve. I dont' think we can afford a slot for cute little Aether Hub. I'll try it, but if it doesn't do what it's meant to do in ONCE in ten games, I'm going to yell at you for taking it out.

AWESOME deck bro. Red mages unite.

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


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