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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:22 am 
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I am revisiting this combo control list. I have added a few fun ofs as Henwen suggested. Give it a spin and let me know.


[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Untitled deck

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (12 :creature: , 24 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 3 cards
Quicken
■■■■
Shock
Cost 15 cards
■■■■
Satyr Wayfinder1/1
■■■
Ground Assault
■■■■
Krenko's Command
■■■
Negate
■■■
Peel from Reality
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 5 cards
■■
Anger of the Gods
■■■
Dissolve
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Archaeomancer1/2
■■
Jalira, Master Polymorphist2/2
■■■■
Inspiration
Cost 2 cards
■■
Species Gorger6/6
Time Warp
Cost 1 card
Counterlash
Cost 1 card
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth12/12
Cost 1 card
Banefire
Land24 cards
■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■■■
Izzet Guildgate
■■■
Simic Guildgate
3
Forest
6
Island
5
Mountain


Counterlash allows for an instant speed Jalira which makes the combo safer. It is also very good with archaeomancer and insane with Kozilek.

Quicken is a nice cantrip that also makes ground assault and anger better. But the main reason for it is time warp. Getting 2 turns in a row allows for Jalira to set up safely.

Peel is there for the soft lock with archaeomancer but is just a solid card.

EDIT: somehow missed satyr wayfinder out if the the list. It is fixed now.


Last edited by Monk1410 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Monk I have had a little time to do some testing, just a few games vs the AI really, but since you made some major changes I wonder what your thinking was.

IIRC you had 4 satyrs and 4 traumatic visions in your previous version and you dropped all of these here, not sure what you added in.

The control shell is pretty solid and the combo pieces don't feel out of place in the deck. Counterlash has been awesome.

However, the manabase did feel a bit jarring in playtesting. I am used to running 10/25 taplands, your build only has one more. Yet I drew several hands with four or five! taplands. This is kind of an RNG fluke. But even with 11 taplands I did have issues hitting double blue. I would recommend switching to more islands.

I also had several games where I was able to cast Jalira safely but did not have creatures to sac to her ability.

The satyrs fixed mana, gave you something for Jalira and helped give Archaeomancer more targets. I think taking them out reduces the viability of the whole "silver bullet" deckbuilding concept since you are not digging so deep into your library anymore.

A few weeks after making that silver bullet suggestion, I ended up adding Archaeomancer into my control pile that runs many of the same cards. The spells I end up fetching are about 75% ground assault and dissolve, they just get the job done. Things may be different in a deck with more access to self mill, but in my pile

Anyway these are more queries than suggestions, my testing has been limited but I would love to hear about your thinking behind this deck. Did you consider Archaeomancer for Monkeem?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:17 pm 
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Sorry HenWen. I posted the list while I was out and missed wayfinder. He is definitely still in the deck. I had taken out Talrand as we couldn't really go off with it and replaced it with 2 krenko's command for token generators.

Hopefully that fixes the problem, I have updated my list above.

I usually don't like archaeomancer in my control decks that run a lot of instant speed answers but I like it with wayfinders.

The only card you could replace for archaeomancer in monkeem part 2 is inspiration but I think inspiration is better in that deck.

Glad you like counterlash. It is quickly becoming a favorite of mine in any blue deck. Have you managed to live the dream with a Kozilek yet. 6 mana for an instant speed 12/12 and draw 4 cards is insane.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:56 pm 
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So your corrected list addresses a lot of the issues I raised. Talrand was too hard to squeeze in the 4 drops, but I wonder if Young Pyromancer might fit in place of Krenkos.

As far as Archaeomancer, I will just say that I have been pleasantly surprised how much consistency she has added to my draw-go deck. I run all the draw, so for me the reverse of your question would be what answers do I want to run in her place. I could run more nullifies, shocks, tribute to hunger, etc., but these are all very situational. I like being able to re-use my best spells.

Counterlash has been working well in my limited testing against the AI - I did pull off counterlash into Kozi, and then time warped the next turn, which was glorious. I may have more to say after playtesting - my previous post was based on incorrect info.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Also I wanted to note that it would be very very easy to splash some black in your decklist. Right now you have 4 UR and 4 RG guildgates, 3 of each could be swapped for UBR and RGB without impairing your mana in any way. Have you considered trying Treasured Find?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:12 am 
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Yes my initial version had black in too. It was ok but not amazing. Archaeomancer does a good enough job.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:45 am 
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After a few games I can say the deck runs very smoothly, although I would swap 1 forest for an island. Some of the singletons I was a bit skeptical of have really proven themselves. The deck has a good mix of permission and removal, but the removal is mostly sorcery speed. Quicken is obviously amazing with time warp, but getting 2 for 1s via instant speed ground assault when someone tries auras is awesome. I do not favor banefire in slow permission decks which run full playsets of resounding thunder and obelisk, but this deck tends to get in more chip damage and can easily recur banefire for a finisher at any time.

It is tough building a deck that blends multiple themes together with success, but you did it here. Kudos sir.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:50 am 
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Thanks, I knew I was on to something when I put the initial list together. Thanks for testing it and helping to improve it to what it is now.

I just like that it does something different to any other deck that I have and gets to play cards that I don't have much use for like quicken, counterlash and Jalira


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:22 pm 
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[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Species Surger

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (19 :creature: , 17 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Creature19 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■■
Mold Shambler3/3
■■■■
Saruli Gatekeepers2/4
■■■
Species Gorger6/6
Inferno Titan6/6
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Genesis Hydra0/0
Spell17 cards
■■■■
Vapor Snag
■■■
Ground Assault
■■■■
Think Twice
■■
Anger of the Gods
■■■■
Cultivate
■■
Warstorm Surge
Land24 cards
■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■■■
Izzet Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
7
Forest
1
Island
5
Mountain


This is a deck concept that Hakeem brewed up back in the day.. we've spoken about it and tweaked it some. It's not a finished product but its pretty close. There are still a few debatable slots which I'd love to have feedback from my Magic bros (and babassoonist too) about. Basically the deck wants to: Stall/ramp into a Species Gorger/self bounce plan with Warstorm Surge/big bodies as the finisher. Genesis Hydra is how we get Surge out consistently.. I have rarely hardcasted it during testing. There's a lot of lifegain here, which is how we deal with fast aggressive decks.. also Anger. If we resolve a Warstorm Surge it's pretty much GG. The deck draws cards very well.

The main weakness of the deck is to Auras. They get outside of Ground Assault range pretty fast, especially Hero of Iroas. That's why the two Vapor Snags are in the deck.. for that specific matchup.. because otherwise we roll over and die to Auras. Hakeem suggested perhaps Peel from Reality. I haven't tested it yet, but I worry that I often don't have too much of a board to bounce bc Species Gorger doesn't exactly let you build a wall of bodies (hence.. no Craterhoof).

The spots open for debate are:

2x Vapor Snag
2x Mold Shambler

Shambler was orgininally in as a singleton.. but he performed well destroying all kinds of things like Bone Wands, Angelic Accords, Sanguine Bonds, etc. as well as land screwing people. The second Shambler spot was for Archaeomancer to get back Ground Assaults.. but I never really wanted to cast him. There aren't a lot of instants/sorceries in the deck. So.. I just made him a second Shambler.. but that spot is debatable.

I'm thinking about cutting the Vapor Snags and just saying "F it... I can't beat Auras.. I'll just accept that as a bad matchup and die." but I really don't want to do that. Maybe Shock so I could 2 for 1 the aura guys and kill Talrands/Kiln Fiends/etc.

Anyway.. I would love your feedback. Please.. give it some spins.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:52 pm 
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Could we Gomozoa here to block the Aura dudes and big fliers? Cut one Shambler and the Snags? This is a combo deck after all, Gomazoa should be fine here. Also we could trim a copy of Saruli Gatekeepers if we add the Jellyfish to play another toolbox card.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:07 pm 
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I thought heavily about Gomazoa but I didn't think you'd go for it. It also has no bounce value.. but it fills a nice role. At least one Shambler has to be in though.. he was really useful.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Have you had any issues with early turns/ board presence? I don't see a lot coming down until turns 4/5. Just seems like you might end up behind and looking to stabilize. That could bode well for the Gomazoa suggestion (although you may need the hp gain to stabilize due to a weak early game so cutting the gatekeeper may not be the best bet - specifically for draw frequency).

I do like the sounds of the Peel suggestion. Seems like it would go well with the EtB theme (better than Snag).

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:40 pm 
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elk wrote:
Have you had any issues with early turns/ board presence? I don't see a lot coming down until turns 4/5. Just seems like you might end up behind and looking to stabilize. That could bode well for the Gomazoa suggestion (although you may need the hp gain to stabilize due to a weak early game so cutting the gatekeeper may not be the best bet - specifically for draw frequency).

I do like the sounds of the Peel suggestion. Seems like it would go well with the EtB theme (better than Snag).

elk


I wouldn't want to cut any of the Gatekeepers.. they do work. Early board pressence is certainly an issue.. but Gatekeepers undoes a lot of that early damage and blocks really well.. then the Frog blocks well too. Having the Jellyfish could be the answer.. a solid turn 3 blocker.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:07 pm 
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I thought heavily about Gomazoa but I didn't think you'd go for it. It also has no bounce value.. but it fills a nice role. At least one Shambler has to be in though.. he was really useful.


Lol, I think Gomozoa is a fantastic card in this metagame, but he doesn't fit into aggressive decks which is where I tend to see him and rag on him.

I think Shambler is a nice bullet, but I'm not sure I would want two; it's a six-drop.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:20 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I thought heavily about Gomazoa but I didn't think you'd go for it. It also has no bounce value.. but it fills a nice role. At least one Shambler has to be in though.. he was really useful.


Lol, I think Gomozoa is a fantastic card in this metagame, but he doesn't fit into aggressive decks which is where I tend to see him and rag on him.

I think Shambler is a nice bullet, but I'm not sure I would want two; it's a six-drop.


Having two Shamblers was just to increase seeing him consistently. You can also play him as a 4 drop mini-stabilizer, then have the frog put him back in your hand for later use. Blowing up lands with the frog is fun.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:33 pm 
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Okay I can get behind that. I'm still going to look for another toolbox card first, though. Singleton Triumph of Ferocity goes well with the Frog and is a decent hit with the Hydra. We could always just play a single Banefire, also, since we're ramping.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:19 pm 
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I really need to see this deck sorted by curve and not by type, my brain actually can't compute those other lists. Here is the list with Gomazoa (and a minor manabase change because of it):

[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Species Surger

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (21 :creature: , 15 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 11 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■
Ground Assault
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 9 cards
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■
Anger of the Gods
■■■■
Cultivate
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Mold Shambler3/3
■■■■
Saruli Gatekeepers2/4
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Species Gorger6/6
Cost 3 cards
Inferno Titan6/6
■■
Warstorm Surge
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
Cost 2 cards
■■
Genesis Hydra0/0
Land24 cards
■■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■■■
Izzet Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
5
Forest
2
Island
5
Mountain


What happened to Masked Admirers, I actually liked that card here. Could we squeeze it back in?

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Last edited by Hakeem928 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:20 pm 
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I just killed a dude by dropping Guard Gomazoa with Surge in play.. maximum style points.

Edit: I'm fine with Admirers.. the hard question is what to cut?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 pm 
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I just killed a dude by dropping Guard Gomazoa with Surge in play.. maximum style points.

Edit: I'm fine with Admirers.. the hard question is what to cut?


Haha, sweet.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:23 pm 
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I would cut one of these three things

Mold Shambler
Anger of the Gods
Mountain


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