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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Alternative "budget" competitve deck for me to possibly build.

4 x Llanowar Elves
2 x Flower // Flourish

4 x Kraul Harpooner
4 x Merfolk Branchwalker

4 x Militia Bugler
4 x Knight of Autumn

4 x Beast Whisperer
4 x Nullhide Ferox
4 x Conclave Tribunal

2 x Trostani Discordant
2 x Find // Finality

22 x Assorted Lands


Not sure about what to put into sideboard.
Also, not sure how many lands this deck should play.

EDIT: 2x Ghalta out, 2x Trostani in.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:55 pm 
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If you are tight on cards, you should not be playing sideboard games and should stick to Best of 1.

If you can only run 2 Flower//Flourish, you should be running 23-24 lands.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:59 pm 
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This deck has 4 mana elves AND 4 2-drops that can cantrip or scry into a land. Also, curve basically caps at 4. Are you sure?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:16 pm 
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This deck has 4 mana elves AND 4 2-drops that can cantrip or scry into a land. Also, curve basically caps at 4. Are you sure?

Elves often get bolted. You may not draw a Branchwalker (4 of those more or less count for 1 land). I'd say try 23 at least needed and go from there.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:09 pm 
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I think you are forgetting about Flower, which is a one-mana fetch-for-land spell. They also count as lands (as long as you aren't running too many of them).

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:13 pm 
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I think you are forgetting about Flower, which is a one-mana fetch-for-land spell. They also count as lands (as long as you aren't running too many of them).


They are being counted. That's why you are able to get away with 23 lands. Just looking at it, you want to go up the curve and hit land 4 on turn 4. That is typically a midrange deck and wants about 24-25 lands. The Flowers are what is letting you get lower. You should also consider that, with cards like Bugler, the big hope is the ability to double-spell, which is damn near impossible with your deck as constructed with short of 5-6 lands in play.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:32 am 
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Due to picking/opening 3 Nullhides, built the deck. Wild Cards spent - 2 Mythic, 4 Rare, 7 Uncommon. Changed Ghaltas for Trostanis - they are less efficent at Ghalta's main job (breaking boardstalls), but are far more reliable and resitent to removal, and also fetchable with Bugler.

For now, practicing it in Ladder. Climbing upwards. The landcount seems balanced - in fact, I've lost more games to flood than to screw.

Deck seems hella strong. The value is real. When you untap with a Whisperer, you casually draw, like, three cards, while also adding a lot of board presence. Untapping with two Whispherers compells you to scream "UNLIMITED POOOOOWER !!!!!!". Nullhide trades with Carnage Tyrant.
As you might have guessed, it's also quite a fun deck to run.

The hardest matchups, so far, were Dimir Hard Control and Elves. Although I supect Monored Aggro and Golgari Grind will also be absolute pain.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:33 am 
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Sorry but you can't really evaluate a deck in the "Ladder" for that matches you against "similar" decks.

It's cool if it's fun and wins games, but the problem is that you could improve the deck factually and yet decrease your win-rate for you face stronger opponents. That makes it really hard to verify the positive effect of advice and changes.

Flower // Flourish is a great card though and you can count it as 1 land - and I agree with Vert that you want ~25 including the FFs.

Not sure how often Militia Bugler whiffs in a deck that's not dedicated to it. Suppose there are better options.

And what's the reason for Find // Finality? Do you splash black within the assorted lands or do you only intend to use Find without a way to fill the Graveyard manually?

I assume you made a lot of choices because you happen to have these cards and not those that other people play in their Selesnya decks?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:15 am 
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Sure, ladder auto-balances, but climbing the ladder up IS a sign that the deck is good.

I know that Ladder and Constructed have different metagames. I'm just mostly using the Ladder to practice. For now.

There are 24 lands incliding the "FF's", AND 8 cards that help in case of mana shortage. It runs smoothly.

Bugler has 22 fetchable creatures. Hypergeometric calculator says that the probability of whiff is only about 15%. And the deck IS kinda build around it - that "22" number is not an accident, you know.

Find/Finality is basically my protection from boardwipes and removal. Also, it is powered up by the Branchwalkers. In addition, it's second half can randomly hose some annoying strategies.

I had a GW deck reminicent of this competitive build. But no, I didn’t just put all cards I had and liked into the competitive one. For instance, I had 0 Branchwalkers in collection, and had to craft all 4 of them.

I honestly think this deck is close to how I'd build a Beast Whisperer / Nullhide Ferox deck from scratch. It plays exactly 0 inefficent cards, and it has a lot of planned synergy.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:36 am 
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Played three best-of-one competitve constructed gauntlets.

First time, got 2 wins. I went into the landflood city, full stop. Also, got rofl-betrayed by one sneaky opponent saying "Good Game" before my lethal while holding a Settle.
Second time, 5 wins, mostly due to the power of the deck.
Third time, 6 wins, though the games were kinda random. My opponents were landscrewed, I was landscrewed, there was a lot of epic topdecks and cards drawn exactly when they need to be drawn. I could have won full seven games, if I had not commited a DUMB misplay in the last game. I lost it entirely because of how **** stupid that play was. Hint: if you plan to wrath the board next turn with an expensive spell, don't play out your Nullhide Ferox. It still taxes all noncreature spells for 2. I checked.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:25 am 
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Turbo wrote:
This deck has 4 mana elves AND 4 2-drops that can cantrip or scry into a land. Also, curve basically caps at 4. Are you sure?

Elves often get bolted. You may not draw a Branchwalker (4 of those more or less count for 1 land). I'd say try 23 at least needed and go from there.


Ugh. Too true, the elves get a buttload of attention. I had an initial hand where I should have mulligan'd (1 forest, 1 plains, 3 llanowar, 1 ferox, 1 knight of autumn) and they wasted every one of the elves I put out. Wound up mana screwed for 4 turns, lost due to that slowdown.

In fairness, that has happened exactly once. Most of the time I have more mana than I can honestly use and turns consist of cast drawn creature, draw card from whisperer, cast new creature from that draw, etc. This deck really spits out as assembly line of creatures once you get the whisperer out.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:51 am 
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Mechaet wrote:
Turbo wrote:
This deck has 4 mana elves AND 4 2-drops that can cantrip or scry into a land. Also, curve basically caps at 4. Are you sure?

Elves often get bolted. You may not draw a Branchwalker (4 of those more or less count for 1 land). I'd say try 23 at least needed and go from there.


Ugh. Too true, the elves get a buttload of attention. I had an initial hand where I should have mulligan'd (1 forest, 1 plains, 3 llanowar, 1 ferox, 1 knight of autumn) and they wasted every one of the elves I put out. Wound up mana screwed for 4 turns, lost due to that slowdown.

In fairness, that has happened exactly once. Most of the time I have more mana than I can honestly use and turns consist of cast drawn creature, draw card from whisperer, cast new creature from that draw, etc. This deck really spits out as assembly line of creatures once you get the whisperer out.

Yeah, Whisperer is the most powerful thing in the deck, making it go off. It makes sense to use all the tricks to guarantee him doing his work. Against control decks, especially those that run blue, I try to never play Whisperer into 3 untapped mana. If i'm not in dire need for a specific card or out of things to play, I save my Find for until my Whisperer dies. In the lategame, I often refrain from playing out Elves until I have Whisperer. I also often try to immediately follow up my Whisperer with a creature, to get immedate value from him.

That said, after Whisperer draws me a hand full of gas, (often including an another Whisperer), I am not afraid to attack or to chump with him. Drawing cards is powerful, but winning or staying alive also is.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:01 am 
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I suppose I don't understand the immediate attention the llanowars get; I typically ignore them. Yes, it's a mana advantage, and yes with green decks that is not a good thing to allow to happen, but I'm usually too occupied with getting my deck's mechanisms working to worry about bolting some tiny little creature that can get tapped for mana. Shrug. I'd rather save removal for a creature that actually poses a threat.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:45 am 
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Mechaet wrote:
I suppose I don't understand the immediate attention the llanowars get; I typically ignore them. Yes, it's a mana advantage, and yes with green decks that is not a good thing to allow to happen, but I'm usually too occupied with getting my deck's mechanisms working to worry about bolting some tiny little creature that can get tapped for mana. Shrug. I'd rather save removal for a creature that actually poses a threat.

Well, apparently "bolt the bird" referring to early cards Birds of Paradise and Lightning Bolt is an ancient tradition based on the fear of getting overrun by early power-plays.

When your opponent has an elf in play, his Steel Leaf Champion comes online one turn early. If he's also on the play, he's 2 turns ahead of you. If you have to take two hits from Steel Leaf Champion before being able to answer him, you're in trouble. Even moreso when that snowballs out of control (like t3 Nullhide Ferox and t4 Ghalta).

So in actual games with Mountains, for every Llanowar Elves there are 1.2375 Shocks. Never ever expect your elf to live against t1 Mountain(exception: You will notice that the game doesn't wait for your opponent to click phases when he doesn't have Shock. In that case, your elf might live. Opp could still draw Shock or use Lightning Strike before you get to play again.) You just don't know that at the time when you have to decide on the Mulligan.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Mechaet wrote:
I suppose I don't understand the immediate attention the llanowars get; I typically ignore them. Yes, it's a mana advantage, and yes with green decks that is not a good thing to allow to happen, but I'm usually too occupied with getting my deck's mechanisms working to worry about bolting some tiny little creature that can get tapped for mana. Shrug. I'd rather save removal for a creature that actually poses a threat.

Well, I'm telling you that is an awful strategy in general, because power plays can often overpower removal spells (Shalai, Carnage Tyrant, The Immortal Sun, planeswalkers, The Eldest Reborn, etc.) or drop multiple threats at once (Trostani, March).

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:53 pm 
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It feels so good to outvalue Golgari Grind, I can't even.

Through two active planeswalkers, no less!

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