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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:36 pm 
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If it hasn't been discussed before, I highly recommend the Lords of Limited podcast. It's a step above Limited Resources in terms of understanding each format.


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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:46 am 
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Obligatory "I hit 7-0 therefore I don't suck at this draft format" screenshot:

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(Okay, I probably still suck at this format)

There's not much to say. I tried to stay open after first picking Soul Sear and getting passed the powerful UG uncommon, but eventually I got hit on the head that white aggro was extremely open, exemplified by the fact that I passed Feat of Resistance + Selfless Savior in pack 3 to pick up Aven Gagglemaster, and both of them wheeled ...

White aggro is clearly strong and even Dub is playable when you got Selfless Savior / Feat of Resistance as well as two Seasoned Hallowblades. But still, sheesh, the games I played it was me putting out the can-you-answer-this threats and winning when they can't. Really not a fan of this format. I might still play it if only because I need to build up my collection and/or need to turn gold into gems, but still, sheesh.


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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:01 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Banedon wrote:
- Goblin Wizardry. It takes sooo many spells before they're respectable. Like, cast one spell and they become 2/2 creatures, which is hardly good on turn 5. It's certainly possible it's better than Tome Anima though, since making Anima unblockable isn't easy either.


I wasn’t arguing the card is good, but I do think it can play a roll in UR spells and sacrifice decks. I don’t think I ever play it outside those decks, but it can make the cut sometimes in those. I watched Numot do a 7 win run with it in a RU deck - there were a couple games it pulled weight (1 allowing the win off prowess pumps on the tokens), and other games he pitched it to loot effects.


Wizardry is another card that gets a lot better with an increasing number of Shocks/1-mana cantrips in your deck; and the instant-speed means they can ambush an X/1 attacker; also being an instant has value in UR. I do agree it's more of a role-player than a staple in any deck and would never run it in Gruul, though (Boros may enjoy the extra 2 instant-speed attackers that get buffed by Warded Battlements and any combat trick that you cast (not even on them!))


I believe I underestimated the value of it a bit in RU spells. I now think it makes the cut *most* of the time there. Having 2 bodies with prowess (even 1/1 base) wrapped into an instant in an archetype you want to be heavy on non-creature spells is pretty darn important. I’ve watched several runs by LSV and Numot and they’re very high on it in RU - Numot had a 7 win run that had 3 copies in main(!). I don’t ever see myself running Anima over it in RU (I might play Anima in a UG deck with a lot of draw enablers, but if I haven’t been impressed at all with Anima in RU).

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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:58 am 
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Can't believe I actually reached Mythic this season. Hell, I'm ranked 162 right now. I still dislike the format (although I dislike it a little less than when I wrote the above), but as it turns out just getting ~4 wins a day eventually gets you to Mythic, especially when most of the time those 4 wins all come from limited. Past seasons I would spend time playing constructed too, but this season constructed is rather uninspiring.

Latest 7-1 run is below.

Image

I don't doubt I've gotten a lot better at this format than a few weeks ago, so here're some impressions. The most important one is that the format is fast. Early drops are absolutely imperative. Not having a 2-drop against an aggressive deck is almost a death sentence if they have any kind of combat trick, which they should draft fairly aggressively. Sure Strike might not have been spectacular in previous draft formats, but it's absolutely imperative in this one in any aggressive deck.

Cards I initially underrated
- Drowsing Tyrannodon. Probably the best common 2-drop in all colors. Should draft this aggressively for anyone in green, it's better than Hunter's Edge in a vacuum (although of course if you already have four 2-drops and no removal yet, take the removal spell).
- Feat of Resistance. This is a premier white combat trick and aggressive white decks should take it aggressively.
- Invigorating Surge. It gets worse if you don't have synergies, but green has some nice synergies with +1/+1 counters (Wildwood Scourge, Conclave Mentor), and even if you don't have those cards the green removal spell adds +1/+1 counters.
- Roaming Ghostlight. In a slow format it wouldn't be impressive, in an aggressive format like this one it can easily be decisive.
- Waker of Waves. It might be surprising to see this card here given it's a 7-drop in an aggressive format, but it effectively has cycling which is big, plus if you do cast it it does a great job at stabilizing the board.
- Wishcoin Crab (and other durdlers like Portculis Vine and even Wall of Runes). Yeah they've been mediocre to unplayable in other draft formats, but in this one big defensive bodies like these are how you get to the late-game. If you're drafting a slow deck with lots of expensive spells, you really should draft cards like these highly.
- Deathbloom Thallid. I knew this card was good from Dominaria, but it's even better in this one. First it's big enough to trade against aggressive decks while leaving behind a chump blocker; second the token it leaves behind is especially good since you can cycle it via Crypt Lurker or sacrifice it to Goremand.
- Malefic Scythe. I was right about it and this card is P1P1 quality. Costing only one mana to move means later in the game you can easily attack with it, then move it on to a blocker.
- Shock. the irony about this card is that I was introduced to it in limited in (I think) M19 when it was much worse than usual because it didn't kill much. In this format, it together with Scorching Dragonfire is probably the best common.
- Warden of the Woods. Although trying to cast 6-drops is often not a good idea in this format, I can make an exception for this one because of how strong it is. Its ability not just draws two cards, it triggers on abilities. Opponent can't even do things like tap this down with Celestial Enforcer. Plus it's got Vigilance, which lets you race quite well. Virtually the only way to deal with it without letting opponent draw cards is via a combat trick like Sure Strike, and even that needs a pretty big creature.
- Short Sword. I've actually come to like this card quite a bit and will usually play it if I have a decent creature count. Point is that it's something I can play early in the game, and if everyone has small creatures (which they need or they get run over by aggro decks) then this can easily make my small creature the biggest one on the board.

Other notable cards: Rise Again is a key common to look for, because it's the only common that reanimates creatures. Not every deck wants it, but the decks that want it REALLY want it.

Cards I initially overrated
- Finishing Blow. Looks like Final Death from Theros, which was first pick quality? Not at all. 5 mana destroy a creature is WAY expensive in this format and it'll usually be trading down in terms of mana. I'll still usually play it, but it's somewhat reluctant, and by 2 copies I'd have serious doubts about drafting a third.
- Turn to Slag. This card is barely playable. If I'm awfully short on removal I might play it, but it's really not something to draft highly if at all.
- Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge. I don't think I've ever attacked with it even though I drafted it a few times.
- Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse. Still a good card (especially since the format demands 2-drops) but if you're playing card draw in your green deck, you're not very aggro, so the 2/2s are not as good.
- Vodalian Arcanist. Again I'll often play it simply because it's a 2-drop, but it's very filler unless (and sometimes even if) I am UR spells, because there aren't that many spells it helps cast. Many spells don't get discounts from this (e.g. Grasp of Darkness, Opt) and it doesn't help cast enchantments such as Capture Sphere either.
- Hellkite Punisher, Spined Megalodon, Colossal Dreadmaw etc. Unless I'm animating them via Rise Again, I'm probably not putting them in my deck.

Other notable cards: Sabertooth Mauler has underperformed dramatically for me. Main reason is that by turn 4, if you are defending, a 3/3 is not enough.

RB sacrifice is not a deck in this format because even if you're lucky enough to get Traitorous Greeds, because the sacrifice outlets are bad. BW lifegain is terrible. It needs lifelinkers, and there aren't good ones. These color combinations still work, but they're more goodstuff than synergy driven. Sanctum decks are very unlikely. The deck above is the only time I've drafted sanctums.

I'll probably still draft a fair bit both this season and the next, because even though the format's pretty crappy, constructed is not much better right now.


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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:35 pm 
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Help with build anyone? I've not been having success with draft recently, going 0-3 with what I thought were fine decks, so I would appreciate any help.

Image

This draft started with what looks like GW - I came out of pack 1 with 2 Basri's Acolyte and mostly green cards. But P2P1 was Chandra over nothing nearly as strong, then P2P2 was Seasoned Hallowblade (am I being indecisive?). P2P3 was Subira over some playable cards. I remember looking at my cards then and seeing it as Chandra + Subira + Battle Rattle vs. 2 Acolytes and the Hallowblade, and I decided to commit to red. P3P1 I took Gadrak over a Warden of the Woods, not sure if that was the right pick either. Gadrak's never getting to attack, but at the time I thought of it as a big flying blocker while I stalled to Chandra.

This deck looks playable but not good, since it lacks removal spells. I only saw one Scorching Dragonfire the entire draft (took Chandra over it) and didn't see any Hunter's Edge at all. I could potentially splash Seasoned Hallowblade using the two duals and maybe the green shrine. Or I could splash Coatl, which should synergize nicely with the Hydra (I've also never played Coatl before, ever). A bit loath to cut the 4/4 reach guys since they're my only ways to beat flyers, and Pitchburn Devils since a bad Scorching Dragonfire is better than no Scorching Dragonfire (but the Devils don't trigger Uprising).

Help?


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 Post subject: Re: M21 Limited thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:38 am 
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Tyranodon and Dub are pretty amazing. I've won around 10 games from being able to pull that on t3. Draft before this last one I did last night was 7-1 with 5 Tyranodons in the deck with Setessan training, Guile (I have no idea why all those cards are sitting in you sideboard... they synergize so well with the dino it's unreal) and the white card that gives boost and protection whos name is escaping me this morning.
Going the route I did t4 you could have a 6/5 first strike, trample dino and draw an extra card before attacking.

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