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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:29 pm 
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Went 0-3. Deck was terrible. I don't want to talk about it ~~


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Its okay Bane dude. I went 3-3 with an awesome UG mutate deck. One game I lost to double zenith flare because **** you zenith flare heals too. Another I got a guy to 1. I had lethal and he played a gain land, this was after i drew 6 lands in a row, even getting a land off a cycled triome. And my first loss was to a 2 lander.

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:02 pm 
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^Yeah Zenith Flare is a fantastic bomb. Every time my RW opponent starts chaining cyclers I get scared. I don't know if they have Zenith Flare in the deck, but even if they don't it's a scary threat since it often hits for 7+ damage while healing that forces me to play differently.

Also, didn't reach 7 wins but this list was quite sweet (5-3).

1 x Aegis Turtle

1 x Essence Scatter
1 x Ram Through

1 x Excavation Mole
3 x Mosscoat Goriak
1 x Neutralize
1 x Farfinder

2 x Cystacean
1 x Gemkiller
2 x Capture Sphere
1 x Blood Curdle
1 x Migration Path
1 x Titan's Nest

1 x Dreamtail Heron

1 x Honey Mammoth
1 x Kogla, the Titan Ape
1 x Shark Typhoon
2 x Back for More

6 x Island
2 x Swamp
5 x Forest
1 x Evolving Wilds
1 x Jungle Hollow
1 x Thornwood Falls
1 x Indatha Triome


It was capable of playing at instant speed quite a bit, which was tremendous with Shark Typhoon. That, and of course Kogla is a bomb.

Overperformers:

- Titan's Nest. I was actually concerned this wouldn't be playable. Turns out it was often a powerful ramp spell that also scryed every turn. It's not spectacular or anything, but it was solid, and when it was good it was really good letting me double-spell with Back For More.
- Mosscoat Goriak. Like Titan's Nest, it's not spectacular or anything, but it was a respectable defensive body while I built to the late-game (which I usually win thanks to the flyers). Unlike Aegis Turtle and Cystacean, it's actually capable of dealing damage and thereby deter e.g. the black 2/1 lifelinker.
- Kogla. Everyone knows it's a bomb, but being able to destroy enchantments on attack turned out to be very relevant. It killed a Reflection & a -2/-0 blue enchantment this run.
- Back For More. Part of it is simply because I have Kogla, another part is because I had Typhoon, but it's also an instant plus I had good ETBs.
- Shark Typhoon. Oh my God this is a bomb. I don't know if it's better than Kogla, but it was very close. It made so many flyers and turned all my Capture Spheres and whatnot into powerful 2-for-1s.

Wouldn't say there were any underperformers. Even Aegis Turtle was great one game against an aggressive deck, it was easily worth more than 7 life on turn 1. If I draw it later it's still a blocker that's hard to get through (again building for late-game), and a mutate target as well. Cystacean was not great, but it was at least an instant, and its big backside let it block more creatures than Goriak/Turtle. Thinking about it, perhaps the only thing I could've asked for is some big cycling creatures, just so Back For More would more often have a target.

I still lost three games, one because opponent had Kogla on turn 6 (plus Honey Mammoth the turn before courtesy of Naturalist) which handily outsized my Goriaks, one other because I hit a critical patch of lands while opponent was beating me down with a flyer. On the last turn of the game I drew Kogla, but he had a removal spell and swung for lethal. The last loss was to RW cycling doing its thing with Snare Tactician out tapping all my creatures while beating down with a 2-drop after I didn't draw Aegis Turtle (+ no 2-drops).

The deck was sweet, it can probably reach >50% wins on average, and might even have been 7 if I'd just played better and/or been a little luckier.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:42 am 
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I'm in the midst of my first draft still at 3-1. I concentrated on getting Menace and ways to put lifelink counters on them after picking Sonorous Howlbonder. It's also nice to combat trick a deathtouch counter on a Ferocious Tigorilla if they go for using three creatures to block one. I have to say that after four games of fun I would build another similar if passed the cards. Don't think they would be good in a constructed deck. I may try it if I pick more. I sure as hell aren't wasting wildcards on building one.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:10 am 
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7-1 with this deck:

1 x Lutri, the Spellchaser

1 x Aegis Turtle

1 x Cathartic Reunion
1 x Facet Reader
1 x Glimmerbell
1 x Anticipate
1 x Essence Scatter
1 x Fire Prophecy
1 x Forbidden Friendship

1 x Frenzied Raptor
1 x Frillscare Mentor
1 x Spelleater Wolverine
1 x Of One Mind
1 x Convolute

1 x Crystacean
1 x Rumbling Rockslide
1 x Momentum Rumbler
1 x Pyroceratops
1 x Capture Sphere

1 x Dreamtail Heron
1 x Cloudpiercer
1 x Obosh, the Preypiercer

1 x Boon of the Wish-Giver
1 x Shark Typhoon

8 x Island
8 x Mountain
1 x Swiftwater Cliffs


P1P1'ed Lutri, then was passed Obosh in pack 3. Most amazing pick this run has got to be the P2P5 Shark Typhoon - no idea how that could've happened.

The deck was very powerful and although I could've squeezed in even more power by picking more Rumbling Rockslides and Fire Prophecies, I'm not complaining. Lutri did a great deal of work and I actually won one game against an opponent who was drawing two cards a turn (thanks to Primal Empathy) simply because I drew six with a copied Cathartic Reunion + had Typhoon out. Other games Lutri would copy e.g. Rumbling Rockslide for a clean 3-for-1. Typhoon is of course a bomb, and Obosh also did very well even with all my even-costed creatures - it is after all at least a 6/5 for 5, with potential bonus upside depending on what else I had in play.

The one loss was to a RW cycling deck where I was on the draw and he played T2 Thundermane. Meanwhile the only creatures I'd drawn were Raptor, Mentor and Wolverine. My only removal spell was Capture Sphere which of course is bad against Thundermane, and I lost quickly.

Looking back at the deck it's possible I should've played 18 lands. The deck was quite mana hungry (since Lutri is effectively a 7+ drop), and excess lands could've been looted away with Facet Reader or Cathartic Reunion. I certainly thought so as well midway through the run. However, I don't know what to cut. Frenzied Raptor is perhaps the weakest card, but it is a creature, and the deck's already rather low on creatures.

Still on the to-do list, draft a real UR spells deck. This might've been a UR spells deck, but it's certainly not an orthodox one, with none of the uncommons of the archetype.

Edit: here's next draft. I got passed a P3P5 Starrix - again, no idea how that happened. I could run Umori (P3P1) as a companion, but would have to cut most of my removal for it - but only most, because Battra is removal. I'm going to leave building it for another day, but if anyone wants to try their hand at building it, now would be a good time :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:11 am 
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Cut a Gust of Wind, Durable Coilbug, Zagoth Crystal, Crystacean and Goriak, added Bristling Boar. Went 1-3. I'm not sure what went wrong, it felt like I flooded out a lot and opponent just always had good answers to what I was doing. Some bad moments were when I passed the turn intending to cast Battra, and opponent played Fire Prophecy. Now I can mutate, but Battra's dying anyway. Then there was the itme opponent hardcast Godzilla, and I used Fiend Artisan to fetch my own Godzilla (like I said, I was flooded). Next turn he attacks, then cycles a first strike onto his Godzilla. I didn't draw removal and lost. This was especially bad because the previous turn I'd cycled Gust of Wind looking for action (and I did draw Farfinder off it, which is a legitimate action card with Fiend Artisan on the battlefield). And then there was the time I two cards a turn for three turns thanks to Primal Empathy, but all I drew was Farfinder, Charge of the Forgotten-Beast, and 4 lands.

I'm not sure if the deck is better than its record suggests, and I'm sure I could've played better, but 1-3 is a disappointing result.

How do you guys rate Gust of Wind? I might have it too high. It'd be a lot better if it's an instant, but a 2-mana bounce spell that cycles still sounds good on paper, c.f. Arrester's Admonition.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:01 am 
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The bad thing about Gust of Wind is that it's not a 2-mana sorcery speed bounce+draw, which would be a top common (Drag Under was fantastic). It instead is a baseline 4-mana sorcery speed bounce+draw, which ends up being expensive enough that you'd trade down in tempo with it more often than not, and rarely trade up in tempo (which is the key to good sorcery-speed bounce).

I ended up adjusting it down a few notches in my personal pick order. In general, I'll get it if I want it (which is mainly in UR spells with a decent amount of fliers), but I rarely want more than one copy.

One card in your pool I've been decently impressed with is Sudden Spinnerets, for a 1-mana trick this does enough that I am generally happy to include one in my decks.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:08 am 
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Drafted Gust of Wind rather lower this time but still drafted a UR spells deck, how would you guys build this? I genuinely don't know, can't rate many of the cards such as Go For Blood (I actually got this 3rd from last, it can't be that bad since it's a 1-mana cycler). I assume I want all the noncreature spell payoffs, not so sure about the cycling payoffs, I could cut hose too and play the 4/3 menace for example. Suggestions?

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:45 pm 
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I would drop a mountain, frenzied raptor and pteron for Frenzied Tigorilla, 2 gust of wind and a go for blood.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:45 am 
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Tweaked quite a bit during the run and wound up playing, from the list above,

- Frostveil ambush, Archipelagore, Winged Pteron, Cloudpiercer, Shredded Sails, Mountain
+ 2x Frenzied Tigorilla, 2x Gust of Wind, 2x Go For Blood, Convolute

And I went 6-3. I think the deck was nothing special and the only reason it did so well was because my opponents had bad decks/were unluckier than me. That said, I could certainly have done better with tighter play, as well. I fully deserved to lose one game against RW cycling. He had Thundermane on turn 2 against my hand of Dorat and Raptor, forcing me to pass turn 2 and going way down on tempo when he followed up with the other uncommon payoff (the 3/1 creature that creates tokens, I forget its name). But then he stops playing cards, and I eventually stabilize at 6 life. One turn before the end of the game, I swung with most creatures because I basically assumed I was dead to Zenith Flare anyway, but only realized as opponent was thinking that he only had 4 cycling cards in his graveyard, and I had just bounced a creature with cycling back into his hand. On his turn he cycled, attacked with 2 1/1 tokens against my one blocker, and cast Zenith Flare to win. Then there was the game where I played against a BW humans deck and he had the 2/3 uncommon + 1/2 tapper. My play for the turn was Capture Sphere. With Facet Reader as my only creature and being at 11 life, I somehow decided to Capture Sphere the 2/3 instead of 1/2, with the result that the 1/2 was very relevant and the 2/3 continued to be useful by exiling my Drakkis targets. Sheesh. Talk about playing badly and losing.

On the bright side, I did learn quite a bit about the archetype:

- Lore Drakkis underperformed quite a bit. I cast it as a 3-mana 2/3 no abilities depressingly often. Even if I could mutate it, it seldom had good targets. I do think it's still a good card in the archetype, but it needs to be better supported (in particular more Essence Scatters & Fire Prophecies would be great), and/or i need more 2- and 3-drops so I have something to do. On the other hand it's possible I simply should not cast Lore Drakkis in these scenarios. I am not sure, but since my deck is not especially good late-game I lean towards the former conclusion.
- Speaking of which, it's possible 16 lands is too few. Many games I was constantly hoping for more lands, one of my other losses was likely to this also (opponent had the rare white mutate creature that makes lifelinkers, and I never had enough mana to counter it in spite of bouncing it twice with Gust of Wind). I also had looters and Fire Prophecy to cycle away excess lands. However, I also had cycling cards that are supposed to help me find lands, and 16 is already relatively high, so idk. The lack of lands was a big part of the reason why I cut all the expensive cards midway through the run.
- Dorat overperformed. It was often responsible for 4+ evasive damage before opponent could answer it, and it was dangerous enough that they had to answer it. Shouldn't be surprising, though.
- Convolute again overperformed. It countered lots of expensive spells while triggering Pyroceratops/Dorat. I'm beginning to think it's a solid playable if one's deck can support it.
- Go For Blood was also too good to be contemplate cutting. As a 1-mana cycler it can draw lands (+ put a sorcery in the graveyard for Drakkis), and later in the game it's strong with Pyroceratops.
- Tigorilla was very solid. 4/3 menace damage adds up quickly, and double-blocking a menace creature is always scary.
- Startling Development was distressingly poor. Yes, it can trigger Pyroceratops & Dorat at instant speed, but to actually get into those positions where I can use it as a combat trick is not easy. It was usually too marginal to cast, to the point where I think Frostveil Ambush should've been in its place instead (and even then I don't think Frostveil Ambush will be a good card in the deck).

Takeaway I think is that Pyroceratops is a fine payoff, but the deck could have used more, and trying to mesh cycling with it dilutes the deck's power. On to the next draft!


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:05 pm 
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I had a really crazy draft and ended up getting Gyruda, Yarion and Lutri. Just as a fun excercise I thought I'd through the decklist up here and see how you guys would build the deck. I drafted Kogla P1p1, then got passed a Gyruda. Then P1p5 I got Yarion and decided to build off him since Gyruda can be harder. P3p3 I got Lutri

Here's an importable decklist so that you can play around with it in the deck builder. This is how I would build it with Yarion as the companion
Spoiler



Here's how I would build the deck with Lutri:

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:06 pm 
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I went with the Yarion build and ended up 1-2 so I'm going to switch to the Lutri build.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:30 pm 
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I think the Lutri list might be too greedy. Heightened Reflexes surely isn't worth a splash. I would want to cut that as well as Cloudpiercer to focus on the GU core, but there's not much in the sideboard to look for. Maybe play Gust of Wind & Spinnaret, perhaps Greater Sandwurm.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:13 am 
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Amazingly this deck went 7-2. I don't get it, coming out of the draft I felt it was terrible. But it somehow made it.

Image

I don't get it, because it felt like most cards underperformed. Blitz of the Thunder Raptor was pretty bad since it doesn't even count itself and was unable to remove most things. Springjaw Trap never got used, although it did threaten to break up double blocks. Porcuparrot was most often a 4-mana 3/4, occasionally pinging off 1-toughness creatures (and very rarely 2-toughness). Wolverine was most of the time a 3/2 as well. But somehow it reached 7-2. I don't understand, perhaps Jegantha is just that good, or perhaps it's just variance showing itself.

The irony is these two other lists, which I thought are much better, both failed to go more than 3 wins:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... nknown.png

I'd have thought both these two lists are much better than the Jegantha one. Like, one of them even started with Yidaro, Lutri, Mythos and Heartless Act, and still didn't get more than 3 wins. Perhaps getting bombs aren't enough.

Otherwise, I think Yidaro was pretty underwhelming. It's a 7-mana card with cycling, which is never bad, but it's never getting cast for free, even with lots of card draw like Lead the Stampede. Still an okay playable but I suspect common removal is better than it. Lukka was also surprisingly underwhelming. Problem is it gobbles up your library really quickly - the cards exiled don't even go back into the deck. If I ticked it up ~3 times and opponent still hasn't died, I often just cannot tick it up anymore. How do you guys rate Lukka?

On another note, how good is Stormwild Capridor? In one of the two losses with the first deck, opponent played the card and then I realized I had no way to kill it. After he further played two Shredding Sails on it (buffing it to 9/11) I conceded. I'm wondering if this is typical of how good the card is - sure it dies to Capture Sphere and Blood Curdle, but it seems that against many other decks it simply can't be beaten.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:36 am 
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Ah Yidaro the dream maker. I got him in my first sealed pack. Cycled him 4 times in the first game (opponent conceded before it even hit the board, anticlimactic). And then i never saw him again. Drafted him twice, never saw him. Maybe in a really long board stall game you get to enjoy him, but mostly he's just a Cycle - 2.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am 
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Banedon wrote:
On another note, how good is Stormwild Capridor? In one of the two losses with the first deck, opponent played the card and then I realized I had no way to kill it. After he further played two Shredding Sails on it (buffing it to 9/11) I conceded. I'm wondering if this is typical of how good the card is - sure it dies to Capture Sphere and Blood Curdle, but it seems that against many other decks it simply can't be beaten.

One of my favorite draft moments was opponent playing a Kogla to fight my Capridor, making it something like a 7/11 with flying and vigilance (I believe I had mutated it already). It's pretty situational, but can be useful sometimes.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:07 am 
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Is it just me do humans draft worse than bots? I P1P1'ed Kinnan, then got passed Obosh (!), then got passed Kogla (!!) and then in pack 3 I got passed a pick 4 Umori (!!!).

Also I got hit by Porcuparrot + Boot Nipper one game. First time seeing the combo, but it's game-winning, and even if opponent has removal for the parrot it still gets at least one activation. It's something to keep an eye out for next draft.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:04 am 
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Thing with bots is they are consistent and predictable, which leads to issues with certain archetypes being open with greater regularity and exploitable.

Thing with humans is they have foibles related to tastes and are unpredictable. They’re not programmed to weight perceived card strength, so you have instances where a player who *really likes* drafting, say BW humans, first picks a good card for that archetype and passes you a rare bomb that doesn’t fit the deck they want to draft. At a table with humans you have a mix of people who are trying to draft efficiently and focusing on card strength, people trying to draft their favorite archetype, people trying to meme for spice or otherwise test a card, people collection building, etc.

Humans are “worse” because you get passed 1st pickable cards later in the packs, but “better” because it’s unpredictable and you’re not drafting the same deck 50% of the time unless it’s a problem with the set itself (like with RW cycle having exploitable density of threats and enablers at common and uncommon). Even if they program preferences into bots, you’re not pulling from the same size player base to fill seats at the draft table, leading to predictability.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:07 am 
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I guess that makes sense.

On another note: I've not reached 7 wins for a while. Part of it is undoubtedly because I'm currently Diamond, which is much higher than I've ever been in limited, but another part is surely because I'm drafting and playing badly. Like, the Obosh Kinnan Kogla Umori + Vivien (which was my P2P1) deck somehow still did not reach 7 wins. So, help with this build please :)

Image

It's got sixty's flash subtheme, but I might've picked the flash cards a bit too highly since there's only one payoff, idk. I feel like the two 4-mana black creatures are subpar in this deck - I never saw Commando to make them better. Gust of Wind is likely poor and the same goes for Frost Lynx, but I've also got Reconnaissance Mission as a tempo payoff. Finally I have Farfinder + the Sultai triland which could conceivably splash Parcelbeast. What's the build?


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:02 am 
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Definitely an interesting build and I'm not sure if what I'd suggest doing is correct.

I would not splash Parcelbeast. You don't get it down on curve and the extra Forest makes your manabase quite a bit worse (which Slitherwisp doesn't like).

You currently have 16 creatures (if I counted correctly); so there's a bit of room to cut down toward 13-14 creatures.
I'd almost certainly cut one Blitz Leech, since the card is quite situational and can get awkward in multiples,
and one Durable Coilbug, since while it ticks quite some important boxes for you, it's also kind of a low-impact card.
If you want to cut another creature, my candidates for that would be Wingspan Mentor or Bushmeat Poacher. The former might surprise you, but I found Mentor to be underperforming quite a bit in general, and your deck already has somewhat big fliers and your smaller creatures generally will take to the skies via Dreamtail Heron mutation.

As for non-creature spells, you have tons of cheap removal, so I'd cut one Dead Weight or Springjaw Trap. The only reason this even is a choice is because Springjaw synergizes with the deck a bit better.
The other card I'd cut is Gust of Wind, you have tons of removal as is, so the bounce effect is probably not where you want to be.

Finally, I'd definitely run the Mutual Destruction from your sideboard. This deck was made for that card; you have enough small stuff to fling at your opponent, it will often have flash so you can choose your removal target to be sacrificed and it can get people out of nowhere (2-mana cast Springjaw + Mutual - they never see it coming :P ). I'd think Of One Mind would be the cut for that since you already have a decent amount of carddraw, but I could also see cutting one Capture Sphere. You could also consider cutting both of these cards and adding the Dark Bargain.

As for the lands, I think I like running 17 since you have a decent amount of carddraw and the lands mean you candeploy your resources well. You could go down to 16 if you really wanted I guess, but I'd err on the side of 17.


TL;DR:
-1 Blitz Leech
-1 Durable Coilbug
-1 Wingspan Mentor OR -1 Bushmeat Poacher
-1 Dead Weight OR -1 Springjaw Trap
-1 Gust of Wind
-1 Of One Mind OR -1 Capture Sphere

+1 Mutual Destruction
(optional: +1 Dark Bargain over the other one of the last cut options)

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