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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:22 am 
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First time drafting Orzhov, how would you guys build this? This is for BO3.

1 x Twilight Panther
1 x Footlight Fiend

5 x Imperious Ogliarch
3 x Plague Wight
2 x Summary Judgment
2 x Bladebrand
1 x Final Payment

1 x Grotesque Demise
1 x Vizkopa Vampire
1 x Forbidding Spirit

1 x Syndicate Messenger
1 x Senate Griffin
1 x Dead Revels

3 x Grasping Thrull
3 x Blade Juggler
1 x Lumbering Battlement

1 x Consecrate//Consume


Together with 17 lands that's 46/40 cards. Other cards in sideboard not used: [deck]Knight of the Last Breath[/card], Archway Angel, Carrion Imp, Lawmage's Binding, 3 Orzhov Guildgate

I have eight high-quality 2-drops and Bladebrand to help force them through, but it's still eight 2-drops. Would you guys cut them? If not, cut what?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:28 am 
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Definitely an interesting build.

My starting configuration would probably look something like this:

5 x Imperious Oligarch
2 x Summary Judgment
1 x Bladebrand
1 x Final Payment

1 x Forbidding Spirit
1 x Vizkopa Vampire
3 x Blade Juggler
1 x Grotesque Demise

1 x Syndicate Messenger
1 x Senate Griffin
1 x Dead Revels
1 x Cosecrate // Consume

3 x Grasping Thrull
1 x Lumbering Battlement


Keep in mind that your sidebard allows you to do some stunts, e.g. board out Summary Judgment for Plague Wight on the play (Judgment is a very good turn-2-play on the draw, but not on the play).
Depending on the matchup, I could also see boarding Bladebrand in or out; same for Twillight Panther, Footlight Fiend or the two fliers in your sideboard.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 am 
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Tried your advice and unfortunately the deck crashed and burned with 1-2. It just felt underpowered, and opponents consistently had better cards than me. In retrospect that isn't really a surprise since there's only one rare in my deck, but still. One opponent beat me with Carrion Imp + Sentinel's Mark, and I couldn't find removal until I died. It was funny getting to Lumbering Battlement two of my Blade Jugglers, opponent casts Lawmage's Binding, and then I play Consecrate//Consume targeting myself, but it still wasn't enough to win. Being mana screwed two out of the five games I played didn't help.

Also not helping was the fact that after this run I went on the longest losing streak I can remember in all my time playing CCGs. I played for more than 2 hours 30 minutes and won only 5 (!!) games. During that run I lost literally every BO3 match I played, with different decks, in constructed. Sometimes I played badly, but other times my deck just malfunctioned, like the time my Temur Reclamation deck was beaten down by two 1/3 Wildgrowth Walkers (seriously?), or the time I had two Murmuring Mystics out with my Simic Nexus deck against Izzet Drakes and couldn't draw an instant (opponent boarded in Ral too - like wtf). I lost count of how many losses I was on after about 6-7 matches. So maybe the deck wasn't that bad, it was just part of my very long losing streak.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:07 am 
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5-1 in BO3 with this list!

1 x Footlight Fiend
1 x Storm Strike

2 x Bladebrand
4 x Plague Wight
2 x Rakdos Trumpeter
1 x Fireblade Artist

1 x Blade Juggler
3 x Rakdos Roustabout
1 x Hackrobat

2 x Carnival//Carnage
1 x Ill-Gotten Inheritance
1 x Dead Revels
1 x Dagger Caster
1 x Spawn of Mayhem

1 x Rubblebelt Recluse
1 x Get the Point

2 x Rakdos Guildgate
7 x Swamp
7 x Mountain


Notable cards in sideboard: another Footlight Fiend (never boarded it in), Drill Bit, Undercity's Embrace, Cry of the Carnarium (never boarded it in), Feral Maaka

Hackrobat overperformed. If cast for its spectacle cost it's a 2-mana 2/3 with abilities which is fantastic. Cast for 3 mana it's still good: it can threaten to attack for four, and will usually trade for a card because of deathtouch. I was surprised at how consistently impactful it was. Rubblebelt Recluse also overperformed. I was initially concerned it would cost too much mana (I was running 16 lands after all), but several times it was the only creature capable of attacking. Finally Plague Wight pulled its weight too, often dinging the opponent for 2 through Chillbringers and whatnot.

In terms of underperforming, I wouldn't say any card underperformed, but I did never manage to pull off the Dagger Caster + Bladebrand combo. Footlight Fiend + Bladebrand I did manage once, but it actually lost me the game because my opponent won on 1 life. If I'd just dinged the opponent instead of his Twilight Panther, I would've won.

I brought in Drill Bit over Footlight Fiend against Azorius decks, and Undercity's Embrace over Footlight Fiend against Gruul. I won one game after cleanly forgetting to play a two-drop on 2 mana, which made the game much closer than it should be. The one lost match was against an Orzhov deck. I misplayed game 1 and I stumbled on mana a little in game 2. By the time I drew a second swamp to cast Spawn of Mayhem, he was at 26+ life with a Vizkopa Vampire I didn't draw an answer for. Blocking that Vampire with Spawn of Mayhem was likely a decisive mistake, and later when Ill-Gotten Inheritance hit the battlefield I realized I had no chance of killing him and conceded.

gg :) The deck doesn't seem that good - it's sorely lacking in high-power rares - but it was very consistent.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:05 am 
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Nice! Rakdos is my least favorite guild this set, but when it comes together it can wreck. Hackrobat is very good in limited. 3 butt that survives combat with 1 or 2 drops and threatens to kill whatever else you put in front of it, or hit for 4 if you don't, is a pain on the board.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am 
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Bo3 draft
i could have drafted better on this one.

Any suggestions are appreciated.
felt like i needed to drop battlement for the other 5 drops.

I get worse at drafting the later at night it gets and i did this one after 1am lol

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:17 am 
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Not running Lumbering Battlement seems like nonsense to me - yes it makes your curve even higher, but it's just too good not to play. I'd likely cut a Noxious Groodion. Otherwise I think you built the deck as well as it could be built. Consign to the Pit is a consideration, but there's nothing really inferior to take out.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:47 am 
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I think it's worth considering running the shield. You have a lot of deathtouch to clog up the board, but not a lot of ways to kill opp. They play a mammoth spider (you're light on removal) and pacify your Colossus and then what? Could take out Caracal (your worst creature) and add shield. Shield on a deathtoucher or one of your flyers makes a decent defensive piece and gives alternate win con.

Could always board in that change tho.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:56 pm 
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I think it's worth considering running the shield. You have a lot of deathtouch to clog up the board, but not a lot of ways to kill opp. They play a mammoth spider (you're light on removal) and pacify your Colossus and then what? Could take out Caracal (your worst creature) and add shield. Shield on a deathtoucher or one of your flyers makes a decent defensive piece and gives alternate win con.

Could always board in that change tho.

I dont think I want the shield in the main deck but I like the way you think. Good sb plan against a grindy deck especially a white one. I do have sentinels mark for this purpose and it would probably get cut for the shield.

I'm not excited about running caracal but I will need that creature against an aggressive deck just to hope I have a 2 drop to play turn 2. He will get cut on game 2 if it's not an aggro opponent.

I think I will cut 1 chillbringer and bring in battlement. I figure the splash makes chill harder to play but as you suggested Bane battlement is a good card and this decks needs all the power it can get.

Drill bit can come in from the sb vs controlly decks. Not sure if I should run the locket or what I would cut for it. Consign + trial will come in vs big creature decks.

To run locket over caracal is the only other question I have and its opponent dependent. I keep hoping I will get better at draft but I keep going with my rare colors to find they are cut off late.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Deathtouch kitties are quasi 2 drops, to hold up ability. Prob worth running Caracal to see how it goes and use shield as a board plan. Your 3 and 4 spots are pretty rough tho, if you're not able to spectacle jugglers in. I'd lean towards Banedon's suggestion of swapping a Groodion over Chilly for Battlements. Yeah it makes your curve higher, but Chilly sooo much better, and with 4 deathtouchers plus Afterlife doods and bladebrand, you should be able to get to that higher curve.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:07 am 
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i found mysef against fliers tempo in my first game and got destroyed.
Second game was a temur tempo that used counters and so many bounce spells, destroyed again wasn't even close.

deck goes down 0-2 it was a ruff draft that resulted in a bad deck.

Tried again mad about drafting a bad deck and was able to do this:
Spoiler


Went for one more draft, rakdos again this time low to the ground trying 16 lands out. Wanted to run the second groty demise but not sure what to drop. lots of options on this one.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:20 am 
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Spikewheel Acrobat is a bad card, I'd take that out in a heartbeat. Best case scenario you spectacle it out for 3 mana, and you still lose out on tempo because it'll trade with their 2-drop. The deck is lacking late-game power though. You could consider replacing Act of Treason with Debtor's Transport.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Spiky should go for Grotesque Demise.

I don't like Debtor's Transport in a deck with only 16 lands and a curve that otherwise basically ends at 4. That said, I do agree the deck needs some more finishing power. I'd run Undercity Scavenger over Act of Treason.
Furthermore, I've been fairly impressed with Drill Bit if you can trigger Spectacle reliably (which you can); I'd consider it over either the third Inheritance or the second Trumpeter. I'd usually like one copy of Dead Revels as well since even getting back something like double Blade Juggler is serious value; however the deck has few enough good creatures that I'd think about whether it really is better than the third Inheritance (It might be; Inheritance does get worse in multiples IMO)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:51 pm 
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5-0 with this deck!

1 x Sky Tether

1 x Quench
1 x Essence Capture
1 x Sauroform Hybrid
1 x Slimebind

2 x Gatebreaker Ram
1 x Gateway Sneak
1 x Steeple Creeper
1 x Code of Constraint
1 x Senate Courier
1 x Simic Locket
1 x Thought Collapse

1 x Frilled Mystic
1 x Senate Griffin
1 x Sphinx of Foresight

1 x Chillbringer
1 x Galloping Lizrog
1 x Rampaging Rendhorn
1 x Trollbred Guardian
1 x Mammoth Spider

1 x Prying Eyes
1 x Gateway Colossus

3 x Simic Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
4 x Azorius Guildgate
4 x Island
6 x Forest


Notable cards in sideboard: Summary Judgment, Expose to Daylight, Quench, Wall of Lost Thoughts, Clear the Mind, Consign to the Pit, Final Payment, Orzhov Guildgate, Rakdos Guildgate

The 5-0 was surprising. I had thought going in that some of my deck was busted (lol @ the 4 gate payoffs) but another part of my deck was just weak as hell. Galloping Lizrog for example underperformed spectacularly. I don't blame him, because there're only three creatures that can get +1/+1 counters (not counting Essence Capture). Prying Eyes felt greedy as well given my top-end, but I didn't play against a single aggro deck.

The gates cards were busted, Frilled Mystic was also superb, and finally Sphinx of Foresight got me out of more than one mulligan jam. I kept one landers with Sphinx twice and both times Sphinx got me there. The scariest enemy card I played against was Deputy of Detention. The first time I saw it, I realized I literally had no removal for it maindeck. Since opponent also had Gate Colossus, I panicked and brought in Consign to the Pit & Final Judgment, as well as both guildgates. I figured that this would work since there was only a 25% chance that I'd draw the black cards without the black sources, and that since those are removal spells I might not need them at once, plus my opponent might not draw these cards anyway. I wound up going more than halfway through the game with both dead cards in my hand and no black source in sight, but I did have Sky Tether for the enemy Colossus as well as lots of fatties on the ground. I still couldn't attack until I drew Chillbringer, after which my opponent's life total went down really fast (he was on the verge of decking out too). Of course, after this game above I realized Expose to Daylight also kills Colossus.

Mistakes made include attacking Sphinx into an opponent who had shown 2 Summary Judgments the previous round :( I also didn't bring in Expose to Daylight against an opponent who had shown Dovin's Acuity - at that time I thought it was just one card - only to get hit by High Alert & a second Dovin's Acuity in game 2. However he had no good creatures and my bigger creatures overwhelmed him. He also attacked a lot with Resolute Watchdog against my Gateway Sneak, which might not have been the best idea, because the Sneak meant I just kept drawing more gates. Another mistake made this game was attacking into my opponent's 2/4 flyer with my Sphinx with High Alert out. Of course he sacrificed the Watchdog. Still, 5-0 so not complaining!

How good are these cards?

- Pteramander
- Angelic Exaltation
- Emergency Powers

I opened the latter two in my 6 packs and realized I don't know how to draft them. For my next draft the P1P1 is Revival//Revenge, Pteramander, Lawmage's Binding, Carnival//Carnage. I'm thinking Pteramander - it's a 1/1 flyer on turn 1 which is acceptable and a 5/5 flyer later in the game, but not 100% certain.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:46 pm 
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Nice! Gates payoffs this set are so good. I recall reading a limited review of the set on channel fireball around the time this thread was created (just before release) and the reviewer was completely trashing the gates cards. I want to say he gave Ram a 1 (whatever it was I recall thinking no way it was that bad) saying you'd need to run 8-9 gates to make it worth it, and he had a recurring theme of 'gates suck, stop trying to make them work' in his comments on them. I'd love to see his face after the set came out :V . I mean, I get pre-evals wrong too, but he was so smug about it - and so wrong.

The problem with lizrog is you have an extremely low chance of having a creature with counters on it by T5 in Simic. Early game you're usually developing the board rather than taking a turn off to Adapt (if you even picked up one of the few that can Adapt before T5). You have better chances of countered creatures in Gruul splashing Temur, but even then it's not easy to get everything to line up - and the floor on it is painfully meh. I've never seen it pay off in limited. It's a Christmas land card.

Pteramander is ok. Not as good as in constructed cause it's harder/slower to fill your GY with instants/sorceries in limited. Lot of flyers in the format to shut it down while you're waiting Adapt, but it's good once/if you can. Playable, but not a high pick imo.

Angelic Exaltation is good, but you want to be on the creature heavy side and not running other do-nothing enchantments (i.e. don't want this along side inheritance). It turns garbage creatures into absolute beat sticks, and if you played a couple creatures T1-3, it's not even a do-nothing enchantment as it lets you attack with a bigger creature than they'll have. Excellent with flyers or tramplers. Very good in Orzhov - you get the ground clogged up with deathtouch and maybe some Afterlife spam in the air, and this gives you the beater to punch hard with.

Emergency Powers is garbage. I'm struggling to think of a worse card to open in the rare/mythic slot.


Of those choices P1P1, I'd take Revival/revenge. Revenge is backbreaking, and Revival useful when you're not in good position for revenge. Very splashable in Azorius, so it still keeps your options open. I'd even take Binding over 'mander.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:25 am 
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I asked a few pro players on stream and they all preferred Pteramander, so went with that. Wound up with a 2 Pteramander deck that went 5-1 too:

2 x Pteramander
1 x Gift of Strength

2 x Faerie Duelist
1 x Silhana Wayfinder
1 x Simic Ascendancy
1 x Quench
1 x Essence Capture
1 x Titanic Brawl

1 x Gateway Sneak
1 x Steeple Creeper
1 x Aeromunculus
1 x Arrester's Admonition
1 x Simic Locket

1 x Wilderness Reclamation
1 x Enraged Ceratok
1 x Sphinx of Foresight
1 x Skitter Eel

2 x Rampaging Rendhorn

1 x Biogenic Upgrade
1 x Gateway Colossus

7 x Island
5 x Forest
2 x Gruul Guildgate
1 x Gateway Plaza
1 x Azorius Guildgate
1 x Simic Guildgate


Other cards in sideboard: 1 Gift of Strength (never used), 1 Archway Angel (never used), 1 Senate Courier, 1 Sagittar's Volley, 1 Mammoth Spider, 1 Rubble Slinger, 2 Humongulus

Deck functioned smoothly. The only match I lost I think I misplayed too (same mistake as in constructed ... not having an endstep stop with Wilderness Reclamation out, lol). I did lose one game because opponent had shown Absorb the previous round, so when he passed turn 4 with no play I simply did nothing as well, intending to use my Simic Ascendancy, but he had Lawmage's Binding. When he indeed had Absorb for the next turn, I got tempoed out. It's possible my hand simply wouldn't have matched up with his; it's also possible this was simply a mistake.

Simic Ascendancy generally did quite well, it made my creatures surgically better than my opponent's. It was especially good with Wilderness Reclamation. I pulled off one Simic Asccendancy win with my back to the wall, at 5 life against an Ill-Gotten Inheritance. That was epic. Enraged Ceratok also overperformed. The blocker clause meant it could attack into deathtouchers, always getting more and more counters from Wilderness Reclamation. Pteramander was ... eh. It did get adapted some times (I realized midway through the run that I can actually adapt it with 4 lands out if I have Wilderness Reclamation in play), but it was very mana intensive and I had plenty of mana sinks already. Biogenic Upgrade was surprisingly mediocre. It did win some games, but for a 6-mana card I was expecting it to be more impactful and sometimes I just couldn't cast it because casting another creature + using Simic Ascendancy would have more impact.

It's possible the maindeck wasn't built right. Many games I switched cards: Steeple Creeper, Silhana Wayfinder, Quench, Gift of Strength - for Mammoth Spider and Sagittar's Volley. I had reasons; I expected long games (= no Quench), opponents had 2/x's (= no Steeple Creeper), opponent had 1/x's (no Silhana Wayfinder), etc, but still. It didn't seem to have a big impact though. They're all filler after all. Against one hyperaggro Rakdos opponent I brought in Senate Courier & both Humongulus (lol) and they won the game.

Gateway Plaza sucked. I had several games where I simply couldn't play it because I didn't want to tap another land for it. For the number of payoffs I had, there's a good chance I had too many gates.

About Angelic Exaltation, one of my opponents had that card, but I was able to keep up with it by virtue of Simic Ascendancy, killing his creatures, and my generically big creatures. I probably got lucky though, he didn't seem to have a lot of creatures in his deck.

On to the next draft!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:33 am 
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7-2 with this list:

1 x Faerie Duelist
1 x Summary Judgment
1 x Shimmer of Possibility
1 x Slimebind
1 x Essence Capture

1 x Senate Courier
1 x Vizkopa Vampire
3 x Arrester's Admonition
1 x Thought Collapse
1 x Dovin, Grand Arbiter
1 x Lawmage's Binding

1 x Spirit of the Spires
1 x Skitter Eel
1 x Sphinx of New Prahv
1 x Sphinx's Insight
1 x Sharktocrab

1 x Windstorm Drake
1 x Mesmerizing Benthid

2 x Depose//Deploy
1 x Archway Angel

6 x Island
7 x Plains
1 x Forest
1 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Azorius Guildgate


Was surprised, I thought the deck wasn't that good. It was missing Chillbringers; it played filler such as Thought Collapse; it had creatures that really wanted High Alert and I never saw it in the draft. Not sure if splashing Sharktocrab was worth it, but I wanted an extra gate for Archway Angel so why not.

I had some cards in sideboard not used: Grasping Thrull & Grotesque Demise (would've splashed these if I had a black gate), and Gyre Engineer & Scuttlegator (this card seems to be very mediocre filler, but with Gyre Engineer providing more mana to adapt it, it could conceivably have been good)

Sphinx of New Prahv was the clear MVP. Mesmerizing Benthid was also great. The others were much more "meh", including Dovin. My feeling is Dovin's better than the average uncommon, but isn't a bomb either.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:07 am 
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Another deck that surprisingly went 7-0. Either I'm getting really lucky, all the good players are in WAR draft, or I'm just too low draft rank.

1 x Pteramander

1 x Sauroform Hybrid
2 x Slimebind
1 x Faerie Duelist

2 x Lawmage's Binding
1 x Gatebreaker Ram
1 x Deputy of Detention
3 x Arrester's Admonition
3 x Thought Collapse
1 x Dovin's Acuity

1 x Wilderness Reclamation
1 x Axebane Beast
1 x Skatewing Spy

1 x Windstorm Drake

1 x Prying Eyes
1 x Archway Angel
1 x Wrecking Beast

2 x Azorius Guildgate
1 x Orzhov Guildgate
3 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Plains
4 x Island
5 x Forest


Cards in sideboard not used: Quench, Arrester's Admonition, Sage's Row Savant, Code of Constraint, Steeple Creeper, Regenesis, Gyre Engineer, lots of lockets

Deck felt quite weird. I never thought I'd cut Arrester's Admonition or (gasp) Gyre Engineer, but here we are. These other cards in the sideboard are also extremely playable, yet I can't tell what to cut. Dovin's Acuity in a deck with counterspells also feels strange. And yet I went 7-0. Go figure.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:25 pm 
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You have a bomb with the ram and that angel has beat me plenty of times. Thats a decent deck.

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:55 am 
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I tend to prefer a lot more gates to go with those two cards though. Angel is good for lifegain but it usually doesn't dominate the skies, so ...

Anyway: P1P1, Chillbringer, Lumbering Battlement or Aeromunculus? Draftaholics says Lumbering Battlement, but it's never been impressive for me. Solid, but not impressive. On the other hand the same could be said of Chillbringer and Aeromunculus, so ... what's the pick?


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