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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:35 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Two GRN draft questions:

1. How good are guildgates if you have no synergies (like Guild Summit)? Are they a solid playable, or mediocre playable?
2. Is it worth playing a bomb if it means you also have to play a bad card? My latest draft for example includes Aurelia & Venerated Loxodon, but I'm also playing Veiled Shade and Severed Strands with nothing to sacrifice.

I've seen some "pro" players advise that 1 gate is ok if you play a deck in those colors. But I suck at draft so I can't speak from experience :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Just got 7-1 with an 18 land Boros Control deck. 3x Swathcutter Giant, Deafening Clarion, conclave Tribunal, and Dawn of Hope.

Not bad when p1p1 was Pelt Collector.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:19 am 
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Reached 7-1 too with this deck:

1 x Healer's Hawk
2 x Gird for Battle

1 x Skyline Scout
1 x Sunhome Stalwart
2 x Boros Challenger
1 x Goblin Cratermaker
1 x Swiftblade Vindicator
1 x Lava Coil
1 x Maniacal Rage
2 x Sure Strike

2 x Wojek Bodyguard
1 x Skyknight Legionnaire
1 x Direct Current

2 x Rubblebelt Boar
1 x Gravitic Punch
2 x Hammer Dropper

1 x Integrity//Intervention
1 x Hellkite Whelp

8 x Mountain
8 x Plains


I am not sure the build was right, and in the sideboard I had more Sure Strikes, more 2-drops, and more Maniacal Rages, but this is what I went with. I was not expecting Direct Current to be very useful - seriously, it's just a 3-mana, sorcery-speed Shock - but in one game it mattered by clearing away a Hammer Dropper. Otherwise the deck felt strong and I had good draws. The one game I lost, my opponent attacked me for 5 with Whisper Agent & Dimir Spybug when I had 7 life left + a 3/3 Swiftblade Vindicator. I decided not to block, since it's possible he might have Dazzling Lights and my swingback was lethal given my pump spells ... then he had two more Whisper Agents. Ultimately though I think I played well, which really helped. One particular play I'm proud of is this:

Me: 3/3 Wojek Bodyguard, 2/2 Sunhome Stalwart
Him: 0/3 wall, 2/3 Boros Challenger (stolen with Connive//Concoct)

It's turn 4, and I'm holding two Sure Strike and Hammer Dropper. He has four mana open. Me on autopilot would undoubtedly have attacked, thinking that if opponent blocks and has a trick I have Sure Strike to counter his trick anyway. Then I realized that he has the mana to pump Boros Challenger (thanks to Gateway Plaza). Me on semi-autopilot would still have attacked, using a Sure Strike to kill his Boros Challenger, since that's what aggressive decks do right - use combat tricks to force through damage. But me playing carefully realized that I could just play Hammer Dropper and not attack. After all he didn't add to his board last turn, while I'm adding a 5/2 mentor. He ends up even further behind on tempo and the Sure Strikes would still be around to force through damage the turn after. Sure enough, after I decided not to attack opponent tanked for a bit and sacrificed the wall to itself, and the game ended shortly afterwards with an overwhelming board state on my side. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:25 am 
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7-2 with this list:
1xgoblin banneret
1xmight of the masses
1xprey upon

1xchamber sentry
1xdevkarin dissident
1xfresh-faced recruit
2xornery goblin
2xvernadi shieldmate
2xironshell beetle


1xwojek bodyguard
2xhitchclaw recluse
1xpack's favor
1xdirect current

1xwild ceratok
1xbeast whisperer
1xexperimental frenzy

1xhellkite whelp
1x command the storm

1xinescapable blaze

9xmountain
8x forest

notable side were another shieldmate, another recluse, another ceratop,a punch, a wave, a smelt-ward minotaur, three vigorspore wurms,maybe a street riot and a portcullis vine
Don't try this at home!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:53 am 
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What the hell, did you go 7-2 with a non-supported color combination?! I've only played against one other deck with these colors, which I lost to, but that guy had Light of the Legion so it doesn't count.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:44 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Two GRN draft questions:

1. How good are guildgates if you have no synergies (like Guild Summit)? Are they a solid playable, or mediocre playable?
2. Is it worth playing a bomb if it means you also have to play a bad card? My latest draft for example includes Aurelia & Venerated Loxodon, but I'm also playing Veiled Shade and Severed Strands with nothing to sacrifice.

I'd kill for Gates in DOM Draft. In GRN however, there are decks where you want them (slow) and decks where you don't want untapped lands (Boros aggro). Maybe run a single one in aggro. If you have multiple Gates in a slow guild, the reward is that you can splash a third color without losing sources of your main colors.

2 depends on the bomb. I'd rare-draft the two you've named but I'm not sure if I'd include them in any deck. In any Boros deck, yes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:48 am 
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7-2 with this list:
1xgoblin banneret
1xmight of the masses
1xprey upon

1xchamber sentry
1xdevkarin dissident
1xfresh-faced recruit
2xornery goblin
2xvernadi shieldmate
2xironshell beetle


1xwojek bodyguard
2xhitchclaw recluse
1xpack's favor
1xdirect current

1xwild ceratok
1xbeast whisperer
1xexperimental frenzy

1xhellkite whelp
1x command the storm

1xinescapable blaze

9xmountain
8x forest

notable side were another shieldmate, another recluse, another ceratop,a punch, a wave, a smelt-ward minotaur, three vigorspore wurms,maybe a street riot and a portcullis vine
Don't try this at home!


You likely got quite lucky with some matchups.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:54 am 
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Banedon wrote:
What the hell, did you go 7-2 with a non-supported color combination?! I've only played against one other deck with these colors, which I lost to, but that guy had Light of the Legion so it doesn't count.

The way the draft happened was starting a first pick emmara, then some white cards, I then realized I was unsure if I was boros and selesnia so I started to pick the common hybrid white two drops over other playables reasoning I could figure it later, then in pack 2 I think I got passed both frenzy and beast whisperer, some decent red commons and the green was flowing enough to never make me pick selesnia or boros gates(even a 14th and 15th vigorspore wurm). And since I manage to pick some good red cards too I just decided to draft gruul.

divinevert wrote:
You likely got quite lucky with some matchups.

Interesting, can I have a critique?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:20 am 
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It's not much of a critique, so much as the power level just isn't there. That doesn't mean you drafted bad, I have no idea what you opened, but your only strong cards are Beast Whisperer and Frenzy. You have alot of 2-drops, which is good for extracting value from those cards, but Whisperer isn't too tricky to remove, so you likely drew pretty good and didn't face anyone who could force through aggressive damage or packed with fliers. It's a very fragile deck that likely had good matchups or good draws.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:32 am 
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I see, I think that enough cards are good (prey upon and the shieldmates are the only mediocre stuff, with ceratop and whelp being run of the mill high cost stuff in a set flooded with good high cost stuff) that a 4-3 or a 5-3 was more than reasonable, was curiuos to see if you were thinking many of the cards were unplayables or if you just expected a 7-2 deck to be more nutty.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:22 pm 
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God, I drafted dimir twice today and finished 2-3 and 1-3. I'm not drafting this crap anymore. I think they overtuned the bots.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:39 am 
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Auunj wrote:
God, I drafted dimir twice today and finished 2-3 and 1-3. I'm not drafting this crap anymore. I think they overtuned the bots.


idk about overtuning, but I did get a Trostani ~P2P4. It might be that the bots are neural networks with inputs based on what players overall are picking. In my two last drafts, I'm base Dimir both times. One is ongoing (and looking like a train wreck ...) the other I had a 4-color deck with Niv Mizzet & Vraska, which also had some good Dimir cards in it but no Spybugs.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:37 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Auunj wrote:
God, I drafted dimir twice today and finished 2-3 and 1-3. I'm not drafting this crap anymore. I think they overtuned the bots.


idk about overtuning, but I did get a Trostani ~P2P4. It might be that the bots are neural networks with inputs based on what players overall are picking. In my two last drafts, I'm base Dimir both times. One is ongoing (and looking like a train wreck ...) the other I had a 4-color deck with Niv Mizzet & Vraska, which also had some good Dimir cards in it but no Spybugs.

Not even base izzet ... what.

It's been a lot since I last drafted dimir too, but I see good blue cards late sometime


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:14 am 
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Yeah, don't mention it. It was base Dimir and had like 3 Izzet guildgates + 2 Gateway Plazas + 1 Mountain. I think I went 5-3, losing one game with Niv Mizzet in hand, unable to cast it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:00 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Yeah, GRN seems almost impossible to figure out. Like, none of the pros even mention Golgari Beatdown as an archetype they deem viable, yet I tend to find it one of the more consistent archetypes. Not quite the power ceiling like Dimir or especially Boros, but it seems to be the deck that is the least likely to trainwreck at the very least.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:41 pm 
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I concurr, I win as much with Golgari as with anything else...or as little...

And I find Dimir tricky, I tend to try to build synergistic decks, and instead end with weak or too slow ones that get steamrolled by Boros and Sele. I'm starting to realize that usually mediocre cards like Dowser of Light are a must there...

I think part of the problem is that there is a lot of playables, but a lot of very good cards too, and you can believe you have a decent, even good deck and then face another that feels almost constructed...luck with the pool plays a bigger part than usual, and the drafts in Arena beign against the AI worsen the problem, if it chooses the cards by a value/rarity criteria, instead of simulating what humans already looking for archetypes would pick


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Probably the wrong place for this question, but it's not worth a new thread, so here it comes:
Is there something wrong with Kraul Raider, Ral's Staticaster, Attendant of Vraska and Precision Bolt? My collection of GRN commons and uncommons is pretty much complete. Yet, I have never ever seen a single copy of these four cards in drafts or packs.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
Probably the wrong place for this question, but it's not worth a new thread, so here it comes:
Is there something wrong with Kraul Raider, Ral's Staticaster, Attendant of Vraska and Precision Bolt? My collection of GRN commons and uncommons is pretty much complete. Yet, I have never ever seen a single copy of these four cards in drafts or packs.

Planeswalker decks


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Oh, I see. Thanks – guess that spot will stay empty.


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