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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:05 am 
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Isn't Sylvan Awakening an unplayable card?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:24 am 
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The unlikeliest ones are always the best ones. 7-2 with a hysteric (non-historic) BW grindfest:

3 x Caligo Skin-Witch
1 x Gideon's Reproach
2 x Vicious Offering
1 x Urza's Tome

2 x Sergeant-at-Arms
1 x Dread Shade
1 x Invoke the Divine
1 x Soul Salvage

1 x Aven Sentry
1 x Thallid Omnivore
1 x Whisper, Blood Liturgist
1 x Chainer's Torment
1 x Dark Bargain
1 x Eviscerate
1 x Icy Manipulator

1 x Excavation Elephant
1 x Windgrace Acolyte
1 x Blessed Light

1 x Memorial to Glory
1 x Memorial to Folly
6 x Plains
10 x Swamp


Had to play a few stinkers (Elephant, third Skin-Witch, Urza's Tome) to make playables; White was not particularly open (no other colour was either, though).
MVP goes to Whisper; and Chainer's Torment is not as bad as I thought it would be (that may very well be because I didn't face a single Academy Journeymage, though).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:30 am 
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To be fair, I've found that Dominaria is quite skill-intensive. In M19, I'm far more confident that I'm playing near optimum than I am in Dominaria. You might be reaching 7 wins because of a skill advantage.

Also, P1P1: Dread Shade, Knight of Malice, Baird, Steward of Argive or Fungal Plots? The best commons are Academy Drake and Baloth Gorger.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:58 am 
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Talking about bad decks that win..
check this nonsense
Temur Ramp
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P1P1 was Siege Gang... and I dunno what happened here... but I was sure I was going to die 0-3, I mean the power level of the cards is great but... the mana, lucky me I managed to hold the board till I was able to cast those nasty cards, Grow from the ashes was HUGE fixer providing for my expensive spells.
Urza`s tome is quite useful in long games especially when you got a few legendary cards in the GY, it also allowed me to cast Zahid T4 one time and T6 without .
Keldon War Caller was the most useful unplayable card teaming with Yavimaya Shepard for the chumps, that bought me the tickets for the late game.

Just to give Banedon the shivers... I managed to get this pile to 7-2 :P

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:08 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Isn't Sylvan Awakening an unplayable card?


In standard, sure, but reaching 9 mana, especially with a Gilded Lotus basically means it burn to the face. Won me several games.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:09 am 
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@Banedon: DOM is definitely skill-intensive, but skill only makes up for a portion of stuff. For instance, some decks can deal well with a flying turtle, some decks cannot.

For the P1P1 I'd pick Knight of Malice. Quality 2-drops are hard to come by, this is one of them. Dread Shade needs heavy colour commitment, Fungal needs a Saproling deck to be decent (and even then you'd rather have another Migration most of the time), Baird is okay but not great.

@Cucho: I'd have played 1-2 more Forests (to make sure to cast Impulse/Grow more reliably, which are your ways to fix mana). Other than that, the deck looks great, including the off-the-charts topend (FwF, Verix AND Siege-Gang is just wow) and enough draw/thinning to find the bombs.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:13 pm 
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How about this? :)

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My first ever 7 win draft. It even felt kind of unfair. Did I adjust the mana correctly? The helper tool had it at 10 Islands, 5 Forests, 2 Swamps.

The Eldest Reborn is ridiculous. I got it in p3 and Eviscerate after that. Before that I would've splashed red for 2 gold cards.

edit: mythic wildcard in the second pack :D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Deck looks very strong. In Bolas' Clutches is an absolute bomb, the Black splash looks about right, the power level is definitely there.

The main thing I'd change is cut one Compass for an 18th land (probably a Forest). Ideally you would cut the second Compass as well, there's very few decks that actively want it, but maybe this deck can get away with running one.
Most splash manabases should be somewhere around 8-7-3, cutting down on the splash colour if they have additional fixing. (e.g. with a Skittering Surveyor, the manabase should be 8-8-2 or 9-7-2)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
@Cucho: I'd have played 1-2 more Forests (to make sure to cast Impulse/Grow more reliably, which are your ways to fix mana). Other than that, the deck looks great, including the off-the-charts topend (FwF, Verix AND Siege-Gang is just wow) and enough draw/thinning to find the bombs.

I guess you are right, I wasn`t feeling very sure that the mana base could work and I only started getting into blue P2P5-6 when I got passed Zahid so I was all over the place, but yes the deck defend itself and the losses where epic too, one against Derigaz and the other to a nasty Belzenlock + Helm host combo, it almost backfired but he managed to kill me with 3 Demons 2 life and one card left on his library.
Always happy to read your inputs :D

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:19 pm 
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So envious, went 0-3 with (yet another) tricolor deck that had plenty of quality 2-drops and removal. Maybe I angled the curve too high, given that I was a rather aggressive deck. After taking the Knight of Malice, P1P2 was between Danitha and Fight with Fire. I took the Fight with Fire because it's so good, but perhaps Danitha would've been better to combo with the Knight. Later I wound up going back into white anyway when the only good card in P1P3 was Blessed Light. Deck looked something like this (this is off my memory):

1 Stronghold Confessor
1 Shivan Fire
2 Knight of Malice
1 Knight of Grace
1 Mesa Unicorn
1 Caligo Skin Witch
1 Jousting Lance
1 Fight With Fire
1 Sergeant At Arms
2 Deathbloom Thallid
1 Cabal Paladin
1 Eviscerate
2 Warcry Phoenix
1 Thallid Omnivore
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Dark Bargain
2 Blessed Light
1 Windgrace Acolyte
1 Garna the Bloodflame

17 lands

Didn't use a Fiery Intervention in the sideboard because it really felt like I needed more creatures and less removal. If someone can diagnose what I did wrong that'd be very helpful!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:54 am 
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P1P2 is definitely Fight with Fire; the card is too much better than Danitha and Knight of Malice is good even without you being in White.

Banedon wrote:


To me, this draft looks like it was tough to navigate correctly; the deck looks like you waffled between which colours to play for too long. If your first three picks are in different colours, you have to be prepared to just not run one of them (or splash it at best). I obviously can't tell how the packs broke, but after a certain point you just can't afford picking, say, a Garna or a Blessed Light, over a solid playable in either of the colours you commit yourself into.
The deck in the end kind of reflects that - it would be better off without any of the three colours, maybe splashing for Fight with Fire, Blessed Light or Eviscerate, but nothing else.

Also, if you run three colours (or splash with no fixing, which is possible in DOM), you HAVE to run 18 lands. Period. 8-7-3 is about the minimum I'd want to run for mana sources.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:39 am 
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I feel like I can't evaluate Dominaria cards well. Like, in one of my first M19 drafts, I picked a Demanding Dragon and then wound up not using it at all. But in Dominaria, many of the cards look so much better than others that I will e.g. draft Cloudreader Sphinx instead of Knight of New Benalia, splashing blue to do it. Hence I end up with multicolor monstrosities all the time. The game's hard :(

Maybe next time I'll just try to draft the easy way, commit to two colors early and never try others. It's not the most effective, but I really want to get 7 wins once in Dominaria. Thanks for dianosis!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:31 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Maybe next time I'll just try to draft the easy way, commit to two colors early and never try others. It's not the most effective, but I really want to get 7 wins once in Dominaria. Thanks for dianosis!

That's not the way to do it in DOM, maybe in basic format like M19, or in a solved one like AKH AKH AKH, but DOM is a whole different animal, as a general advice I would recommend you trying to grab any combination of Sultai colors and splash the third one only for bombs or removal -red is a great example of removal splash- White is tricky coz it seems solid, I thought it was going to be the best color in the early stages of the format but then Black, Blue, and Green just rode the value train and in the end white never got off the ground
I encourage you to listen to the LR Sunset Show´s, those are pure gold and especially useful in Arena where we rotate old formats every week.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:04 pm 
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I hate listening and would rather read :(

Having said that I finally reached 7 wins with this deck :D

2 Warlord's Fury
3 Opt
1 Syncopate
1 Vodalian Arcanist
1 Keldon Warcaller
1 Ghitu Chronicler
1 Run Amok
1 Academy Drake
3 Ghitu Journeymage
3 Adeliz, the Cinder Wind <-- !
1 Diviniation
1 Keldon Raider
3 Fiery Intervention
1 Cloudreader Sphinx

8 Island
8 Mountain

Notable sideboard cards not used: Fervent Strike, another Keldon Warcaller, Blessed Light, Skittering Surveyor, Tolarian Scholar

First picked Skittering Surveyor over an On Serra's Wings, figuring that given my tendency to end up with 3-color decks and the AI's tendency to draft these super highly, I could use the fixing. Next pack was weak and I took Adeliz out of it, then a Blessed Light, but then the wizard cards started flowing and I wound up in UR wizards with a load of extra playables. In contrast to the AI's love for Skittering Surveyor, it seems to ignore Fiery Intervention far too much. Not sure if I should've splashed the Blessed Light.

The run went quite smoothly except for one game where I kept a hand with 3 Islands, Opt, and 3 red cards, but didn't draw a Mountain until I was almost halfway through my deck, and got run over. Somehow I managed to flood a lot in spite of the 16 lands, but the flyers & reach generally got there. I also had one guy go "Oops" after he used a telegraphed in-combat removal (turns out to be Seal Away) on my Adeliz, then I played another and Oops'ed him back.

By the way @Sol_bla77, according to LSV, Navigator's Compass is crappy as hell and should never be played. The argument is that it's not good fixing. Compared to a card like Manalith or Prophetic Prism, this just gives you 3 life and doesn't ramp you. I've stopped running them too, although I continue to meet people who use them.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:27 am 
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Banedon wrote:
I hate listening and would rather read :(

By the way @Sol_bla77, according to LSV, Navigator's Compass is crappy as hell and should never be played. The argument is that it's not good fixing. Compared to a card like Manalith or Prophetic Prism, this just gives you 3 life and doesn't ramp you. I've stopped running them too, although I continue to meet people who use them.

Congrats on your 7 wins :)

That's my issue with LR as well, it's hard for me to consume something audio only. If only they'd put the card they're currently talking about on the screen ;)
To my surprise, when I did listen to the Sunset Show yesterday, I found that I already knew all those DOM cards, not in every detail, but they gave enough context.

And yes, just like Modulo, they all trashed my poor Compass :D

Despite that, it didn't feel useless, I got ~5 activations out of it in my run with that deck. I felt good with it in my starting hand because it allowed me to cast anything as long as the raw amount of lands was enough. I avoided it in later drafts and then came those losses, where you have all green cards but all blue mana. Not argueing with the pros, but .. ;)

edit: Oh and you can but the "bla", that's just for I lost my old account.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:57 am 
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Pack 3 was brutal. I go into these DOM drafts with the intention to rare-pick every check land. Then P3P1 gave me the red/blue one vs Slimefoot and Song of Freyalise. You see whom I picked (and I really don't like Izzet). Then P3P2 I took the Woodland Cemetry over the Saproling Lord, which I shouldn't do in a competitive draft, not happy with the decision now but I know I'll be glad to have it in my collection.

Now to the controversial pick: Also pack 3: Allosaurus over the 2nd Fungal Plots correct?

Oh and what would you cut from this point? I didn't get to draft BG Thallids yet.

For the record: Cabal Stronghold had no competition, I was surprised to see a constructed-viable rare land in the middle of a pack.

edit: Went horribly and I don't get it. This deck looked so strong and still I was overpowered in the lategame twice:

1. I got through an opposing The Eldest Reborn, got the board unter control eventually, play a kicked Caligo Skin-Witch to empty his hand. I have Grunn and Urgoros ready in my hand. He then topdecks Blackblade Reforged, turning his Knight of Malice into a 10/10 for which I run out of chump blocks before Urgoros can kill him.

2. T1 I Divest a Darigaaz Reincarnated, which he eventually gets back with his Eldest Reborn (3rd in 5 games...) to kill me. I did waste an Eviscerate on an Omnivore though. Was that a mistake? I didn't know the Eldest Reborn would follow.

overall 2-3.. the other loss was expected to a very fast Wizards deck.. but still I'd have expected to win every long game and get near to 7 wins.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:37 am 
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Only problem with rare drafting is that all our collections are temporary anyway ...

In your deck, I'd probably cut Divest. It's a dead card later in the game after all. Also, Territorial Allosaurus is a very powerful card so absolutely take it over second Fungal Plots (two copies of that in play at the same time is actually redundant). Cabal Stronghold isn't exactly constructed playable, last I saw it barely sees constructed play (at least right now, in standard). It might have applications in monoblack decks in other formats.

Your experiences with bombs sound right like mine! I drafted a reasonable B/R grind deck, then lost one game to Multani, another to Lyra, and the third because I couldn't count that 3 + 4 (aka. kicked Academy Drake + Cloudreader Sphinx) > 6 (my life total at that time). I had Windgrace Acolyte in hand too and my opponent was one hit away from dying so he couldn't easily attack. My opponent topdecked a land that last turn as well. If I'd just played that Acolyte I might've won that game ... sigh ... why is Magic so hard ... Those cards are called bombs for a reason, they win the game if unanswered. If hate these games that are decided by bombs, perhaps try playing competitive draft instead and fill your sideboard with cards like Broken Bond and Pierce the Sky that are narrow but specifically answer your opponent's bombs.

EDIT: Actually now that I think of it, I made a play error much earlier than that! My opponent attacked with Sphinx and Serra Angel. I attacked back with Rampaging Cyclops, Windgrace Acolyte and a kicked Stronghold Confessor into 6 open mana and a Bloodtallow Candle. The idea was, my opponent would pop the Candle, and I'd respond by kicking Vicious Offering to kill the Serra Angel for a 2-for-2. Problem #1: Serra Angel of course has Vigilance, and somehow I thought it was tapped. So it blocks Windgrace Acolyte. Well it wasn't a disaster, since I was holding Fungal Infection. Before damage I use Fungal Infection, he responds with Bloodtallow Candle, and I respond with Vicious Offering. Fungal Infection fizzles.

Why the hell didn't I put damage on the stack, let Windgrace Acolyte die, and then cast Fungal Infection, I have no idea.


Last edited by Banedon on Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:49 am 
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Cut Cabal Stronghold for a basic. You won't reliably have 3 Swamps in play, and when you do the extra mana off Stronghold is not worth it anymore. On the flipside, not being able to cast your BB spells because you only have this and a Swamp is terrible.

Other than that, the deck looks quite strong (and I'm shivering at the thought that it could be even better with another Slimefoot or a Song), and the cuts could be debatable. Here's what my cuts would be:
-2x Divest. You have enough removal that you don't need this; plus it's a horrendous topdeck late.
-Fungal Plots. I might be underrating the card, but you have many ways to gain card advantage (two Dark Bargain) and sac Saprolings for value (Thallid Soothsayer plus two Omnivores) and you'd rather recur your few high-value creatures with Soul Salvage and Memorial to Folly than exiling them to Plots.
-1x Llanowar Scout. This is your worst potential 2-drop, and you have enough that you can afford cutting it.

And finally, given your rather high density of non-creature spells, I think I'd cut one Adventurous Impulse for land number 18. This is the change I'm the least certain about; it's not inherently clear whether the deck wants 17 or 18 lands. 2 Adventurous Impulse and a Grow from the Ashes mean you probably can get away with 17 (plus you're not splashing), but the many manasinks and card advantage engines you have would sway me to run 18. 9 Forests, 8 Swamps, Cemetery, nothing fancy but gets the job done.


Also: Yes, DOM is a format where you can definitely be overpowered in the lategame, and it doesn't even need fancy Mythics to do so. For instance, a turtle sent to the skies can absolutely close out games against many, many decks.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:20 am 
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Thanks for the detailed breakdown :)

I did about 50% of what you suggested:

I did not run Cabal Stronghold for the same reasoning, I never really intended to run it, just grabbed it for no cost to the deck. I cut 1x Divest, 1x Adventurous Impulse, 1x Llanowar Scout and the Thorn Elemental.

Lands were 8-8-1. Outcome see above.

You might have misread about my rare-drafting: I did choose Slimefoot over Song and over the check land. I missed out on the Saproling lord by taking the Woodland Cemetry, which in retrospect didn't have any impact at all.

Banedon, I know, it's a temporary collection. But it'll stay for a while and eventually we'll get a permanent one.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:38 am 
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modulo deck fix please :) I drafted this deck, am not sure about the last cards.

2 Sparring Construct
2 Knight of New Benalia - drafted these quite highly because they're knights
1 Caligo Skin Witch
1 Gideon's Reproach
2 Vicious Offering
1 Jousting Lance
1 Sergeant at Arms
2 Deathbloom Thallid
1 Dub - makes a knight
1 Soul Salvage
1 Aryel, Knight of Windgrace - hence all the knights
1 Aven Sentry
1 Call the Cavalry - more knights
1 Dark Bargain
1 Eviscerate
1 Settle the Score
1 Excavation Elephant
2 Windgrace Acolyte

1 Memorial to Folly
8 Swamp
8 Plains

Cards in sideboard not used: Healing Grace, Bloodtallow Candle, Blessing of Belzenok, Divest, Demonic Vigor, Drudge Sentinel, Sorcerer's Wand

I'd prefer not to run the Sparring Constructs & Excavation Elephant, but they seem like the best of the bad options. Blessing of Belzenok has only one legendary creature target, Divest of course has its own problems, Demonic Vigor is an aura (just like Dub I suppose, but at least that makes a knight). The other cards are just not very good. My main concern is that I have Soul Salvage with only 13 creatures, which means it could be dead quite often. On the other hand Aryel is a powerful bomb that'll be huge if recurred, and Dark Bargain / Windgrace Acolyte can help fill the graveyard too. If I don't run Soul Salvage, I could run Bloodtallow Candle, which would also work with Excavation Elephant. Think there's anything I should change?

EDIT: got impatient and decided to submit as is without waiting for modulo's fixes. Currently (I think) 5-2, both losses coming from some mana stumbles early. Perhaps two-landers on the play really aren't keepable even with two 2-mana spells in hand. Of note, Knight of Grace and Knight of Malice wipe me out; I can't block them and the only thing I can do is hit them with some premium removal spells (Vicious Offering / Gideon's Reproach). It's ironic that the Sparring Constructs have generally been poor (even with Excavation Elephant bringing one of them back), but with one of these I can actually block the knights with a 2/3 Sergeant at Arms. Arvel is strong as hell and won me some matches single-handedly; Caligo-Skin Witch has had the misfortune to always be drawn when my opponent is already hellbent ...


Last edited by Banedon on Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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