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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
Well Boros in GRN is an out-and-out aggro deck. I'm not sure what RW is in Dominaria. You could of course just draft goodstuff, but some of the RW cards are quite aggressive (Tiana wants auras/equipment for example, and so does Valduk / Champion of the Flame). At that point, Fiery Intervention and Seal Away aren't at their best. At least, that's how I think of it. Fight with Fire is obviously superior to Fiery Intervention, but it's also powerful enough that I'd pick it over any common so it doesn't count.

I'd splash Fiery Intervention if given the chance, valuing it about as much as Cloudreader Sphinx usually.

About Windgrace Acolyte, I wouldn't think about it that way. Just pretend that all those cards were at the bottom of your deck and were therefore never drawn. The mill effect is on balance good - it enables things like Squee and Whisper, Blood Liturgist.

Re: Gwent - there's a lot that can be said about Gwent, and it's more complex than "play higher numbers". There're things like engine cards that create points over time, there's swarm strategies, anti-swarm cards, the fact that some cards are clearly more powerful than others (gold > silver > bronze), deck thinning as a consistency tool, and so on. Three rounds is also a big deal since deciding when to pass is not easy. You have to try it yourself (or see the Magic Duels subforum). As I'd guessed though, I'm not currently playing Gwent because I can't be bothered learning a completely new meta :D


I'm enjoying it. Decks are very different.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:40 am 
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You mean Gwent?

I haven't been able to motivate myself to re-learn that game without a website like gwentdb to netdeck from. There're just too many new cards to learn. Is there a list of the best decks somewhere? If I start playing, it'd be by using one of those decks to familiarize myself with the meta.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Don't you just hate it when you draft some mediocre deck and then lose games like this?

opp on the play
t1 Island 1/1 bird
t2 Plains 1/1 bird
rest of the game enchant them without you drawing any interaction and killing you with this crap?

or..
opp t4 Traxos, t5 that one stupid common that untaps him every turn?

Great way to never get to play a deck.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:18 pm 
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I guess you just learnt the hard way the power of Voltron.

I've lost my fair share of games to random creatures wearing various pairs of pants (won a couple too).

I drafted a traxos deck once with that combo. The deck did ok irc, but I only managed to pull off that play in one of the games. Always seems to work better for your opponents anyway.

Losing is never all that much fun. I've even discovered a bug with arena due to the frustration of losing. If you click your mouse repeatedly on the lose screen, it crashes and closes the client (in my case it happens when hammer tap repeatedly the screen on my cell phone).

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Always seems to work better for your opponents anyway.

Yeah, I got some kind of miracle magnet. Opp just played double Llanowar Elves into Darigaaz Reincarnated t5.

edit: next game.. crushing opponent, he has 3 life, Adeliz and Tolarian Scholar. With 4 mana he finishes my 14 life.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Fun little game this morning:

Got an Evra, Halcyon Witness down on curve then threw a Jousting Lance on it. Get a couple attacks in and its a 20/4 before Opp uses Ancient Animus with Tatyova, Benthic Druid to try to clear it - Befuddle'd. Opp gets a Verdant Force down and and saps chump Evra for a turn or two while my life total goes up. He then gets a Corrosive Ooze and a second Verdant Force down, so I hang back and hope to draw removal for Ooze so my 64/4 Evra can resume attacking. Finally find Blessed Light to zap Ooze (Opp has ~20 saps now) and swing in with Evra. Opp tops Wild Onslaught and cracks back for ~80. I untap at 18, Opp has 2 cards left in library, and I have no luck finding On Serra's Wings to get in for lethal. I pass back with Evra and a dork on defense. With around 100 power on board now, Opp sends the GG and plays a land to draw his last card with his second Tatyova before swinging with the team. Block his two 9/9s, Invoke the Divine his 3/5 Voltaic Servant, and... I survive at 2. Opp plays The Mending of Dominaria, but there's no time for it to save him - excessive Tatyova'ing claims another victim.

In a much less complicated game of a different draft - played a Haphazard Bombardment on T5 (courtesy of Llanowar Scout) targeting my Opp's four lands. He lost both his mountains and only ever found one more land. Nice short game.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:54 pm 
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The board:

Opponent: 6 untapped lands, Bloodtallow Candle, an Aesthir Glider with Jousting Lance, a Howling Golem with Shield of the Realm and Arcane Flight, 7 life, one card in hand.
My board: 6 untapped lands, Rampaging Cyclops, Relic Seeker, Cloudreader Sphinx, The Eldest Reborn @ third chapter, 7 life.
My hand: Fight with Fire, Wizard's Retort, Run Amok

The Eldest Reborn trigger goes on stack, opponent responds with Befuddle. Huzzah, no more Bloodtallow Candle activations. I think it through and realize that if I counter the Befuddle, opponent dies to Run Amok. So I counter and attack. Opponent has no cards in hand and no way to activate Bloodtallow Candle, so he's dead, right? Opponent blocks the Rampaging Cyclops, we both draw a card. Wait what, he might not be dead after all. Now he only has three untapped lands so he must draw Blink of an Eye. I cast Run Amok. Opponent plays ... another Befuddle! I'm dead to the counterattack. RIP.

Disappointing loss, since I don't usually consider Befuddle worth playing. I could've stayed alive by not casting Run Amok too, oh well.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:06 am 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
DOM is so skill-intensive.. normally after a loss I think "Well, nothing you could've done". In DOM there are so many different possibilities, I think the kicker mechanic is an integral part of that. Cast it now to be on curve and to gain tempo or hold it back until later? Equip my weapon or play a card? Clutch his 4-drop now or wait for a bomb?


So very true !!!

I've been drafting good decks and playing them to bad records, and thinking about the games afterwards it's often just me making mistakes. Playing cards when I really need to bring back a Thallid Omnivore to protect my Multani, not holding extra lands in hand to discard to the Caligo Skin-Witch, holding mana to make 1/1s with Slimefoot when my opponent stumbles on mana, trading creatures when I'm holding Helm of the Host in my hand, so many times I screw up what should've been a 7-win deck. Sad face.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:21 pm 
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I just draft bad decks.

Like for ezample I kill opponent's tempest djinn and he casts a 2nd one next turn :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:22 am 
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Auunj wrote:
I just draft bad decks.

Like for ezample I kill opponent's tempest djinn and he casts a 2nd one next turn :D

Yeah, it's a bomby format and when your "bombs" happen to be Urza's Ruinous Blast, Fall of the Thran and Thran Temporal Gateway, you're in trouble. And there's a lot more crap where that came from. On the other hand, there are Verix Bladewing, Lyra Dawnbringer or even the Mythic Uncommons The Eldest Reborn, Tatyova, Benthic Druid or In Bolas's Clutches.

I don't think, Commons and synergy have that much influence on the outcome of a DOM match. You always have some 2 mana 1/3s, some 3 mana 2/3s and some fixing that may or may not come in time to enable your bombs.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:40 am 
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Strongly disagree that commons and synergy don't have much influence in a DOM match. Cards like Thallid Omnivore in a Saprolings deck are superb role-players, and the common removal are also strong enough that I'd go out of my way to splash them. Similarly I draft Skittering Surveyor very highly, and that's a common too.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:16 am 
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Not saying they aren't strong but that it's unlikely that your opponent has weaker Commons than you have.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:12 am 
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But there are lots of powerful common removal in DOM, Lyra is problematic for sure but you can del with her with:

- Fiery Intervention
- Eviscerate
- Deep Freeze
- In bolas Clutches
- Blessing Light
- Pierce the Sky
- Vicious Offering
- Seal Away

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:50 am 
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Sol77_bla wrote:


The Eldest Reborn is a tad weaker than Clutches and Tatyova. In fact, IMO the four mythic Uncommons in the set are In Bolas' Clutches, Icy Manipulator, Fight with Fire and Tatyova (in roughly that order). I would still take Eldest Reborn over any Common, but there are quite some cards between Tatyova/Fight and Eldest IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Sol77_bla wrote:


The Eldest Reborn is a tad weaker than Clutches and Tatyova. In fact, IMO the four mythic Uncommons in the set are In Bolas' Clutches, Icy Manipulator, Fight with Fire and Tatyova (in roughly that order). I would still take Eldest Reborn over any Common, but there are quite some cards between Tatyova/Fight and Eldest IMO.

They are all great cards, I don't have a particular order for them. The bots appear to love Manipulator for you never see that beyond pick 1. Anything with a color can come around way too late to be realistic.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Sol77_bla wrote:


The Eldest Reborn is a tad weaker than Clutches and Tatyova. In fact, IMO the four mythic Uncommons in the set are In Bolas' Clutches, Icy Manipulator, Fight with Fire and Tatyova (in roughly that order). I would still take Eldest Reborn over any Common, but there are quite some cards between Tatyova/Fight and Eldest IMO.


Personally I'd take Icy over almost any card in the set. Pick one I'd take Teferi, Lyra and Aryel over it since they can be so game winning. Pack 2 I'd take Icy over them unless I was already in at least one of the right colours. Icy is such a strong card, if a little bit slow ( if I was only really in one colour and open I'd have to think pretty hard). A lot of the other strong mythics are slow and reasonably easy to answer - Multani would give me pause if I was in green, think that'd be a close one.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Well, I just crashed the last DOM Draft I could afford and what a ridiculous show of weirdo matches the first 2 losses were again. One had no business of ever winning the game but kept me from winning over 18 minutes until I was milled - with him at 3 life and me at 20. And the next one was the total opposite. Ran me over with t2 3/1 guy, t3 3/1 guy, one of them I could Deep Freeze but the rest of the game had him countering my everything for 3 consecutive turns. Yay!

There goes your 7-win-capable good stuff deck featuring Tatyova, Slimefoot and Eldest Reborn.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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I think you overrate The Eldest Reborn a bit. Don't get me wrong, it's a great card and a high pick, but it's not that good. The problem is if you play it early you might not have a good card to bring back with the third chapter; if you play it late, the opponent might have lots of small creatures already and the first chapter is not effective (besides opponent might be hellbent and the second chapter isn't effective either). I think Modulo is right about where The Eldest Reborn is relative to the real mythic uncommons.

AD2016 wrote:
Modulo wrote:
Sol77_bla wrote:


The Eldest Reborn is a tad weaker than Clutches and Tatyova. In fact, IMO the four mythic Uncommons in the set are In Bolas' Clutches, Icy Manipulator, Fight with Fire and Tatyova (in roughly that order). I would still take Eldest Reborn over any Common, but there are quite some cards between Tatyova/Fight and Eldest IMO.


Personally I'd take Icy over almost any card in the set. Pick one I'd take Teferi, Lyra and Aryel over it since they can be so game winning. Pack 2 I'd take Icy over them unless I was already in at least one of the right colours. Icy is such a strong card, if a little bit slow ( if I was only really in one colour and open I'd have to think pretty hard). A lot of the other strong mythics are slow and reasonably easy to answer - Multani would give me pause if I was in green, think that'd be a close one.


I don't think I've ever drafted Icy Manipulator. It's a great card, but I never see it. The AI takes it very highly, which is not necessarily bad, since it's a good card after all.

I also don't agree with your listing. Teferi, Lyra and Aryel are great cards, but there're plenty of other good cards that I'd take over Icy Manipulator, e.g. Karn, Verix, Siege Gang Commander, Helm of the Host ... Multani is the best card in the set imo and I'd take it without question. It's not fair to say the other mythics are slow, Aryel is slow too and so is Teferi.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:29 am 
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Banedon wrote:
I think you overrate The Eldest Reborn a bit. Don't get me wrong, it's a great card and a high pick, but it's not that good. The problem is if you play it early you might not have a good card to bring back with the third chapter; if you play it late, the opponent might have lots of small creatures already and the first chapter is not effective (besides opponent might be hellbent and the second chapter isn't effective either). I think Modulo is right about where The Eldest Reborn is relative to the real mythic uncommons.

I probably do because I've lost a lot to it. It doesn't take much for either step 1 or step 3 to be backbreaking. But after it even had a showing in early Standard this season, people are dumping it for tempo reasons.

Just yesterday I tried to understand how people regard History of Benalia as one of the very best cards overall and attempted to put mana values to those respective cards and their steps. I think Benalia is worth ~5 mana (2 bears and a limited, non-surprising pump) and for The Eldest Reborn I'd say 3 (step 1 is close to Plaguecrafter) + 1 (worst step by far, especially because the opponent knows it's coming) +5 (Rise from the Grave), so 9 in total.

So seriously, please explain to me, why Benalia is (regarded as) so much better. I know that my doubts cannot be right for people build successful decks around Benalia and our dear black card collects dust outside of Limited.

And on another note, Banedon, regarding my yesterday's deck. If you're not convinced of its prowess: I forgot to mention my In Bolas's Clutches, 2 Cloudreader Sphinx and Academy Drake. Believe me it was good :)
I should have found a way to win the 18 minutes game and the one I didn't mention was kind of stupid by me. I gave him lethal one turn early after failing two draw steps (despite Scry 2 from a Sphinx) to find a 6th land to clutch his Demonlord Belzenlok.

And Icy, yes, like I said, you never see it beyond pick 1. The bots are apparently based on AD. So I guess thanks are in order for all those late Verixes etc :D


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:43 am 
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Gods above I hate auras ... they make it so that if the opponent has drawn removal you lose, if they haven't you win. That's what happened to me the last two drafts, except in one of them I was the one on the receiving end of the auras, and in the other it was me trying to play the auras. How lame is this. I went 1-3 when I played auras myself, and all three times I lost it was because my opponent had removal, while the win was because my opponent didn't have removal.

Maybe next time I'll try to draft mono-removal control.

History of Benalia is much more than 2 bears and a limited non-surprising pump. First the bears have vigilance. Second the pump applies to all knights. You might be able to draft more knights, e.g. Knight of Grace, Knight of Malice, Call the Cavalry. Even Dub can make a knight. Third the pump is non-trivial. On its own it's 8 points of vigilant damage. The pumped knights are also big enough that they're not easy to block. Finally History is a proactive play. You can play The Eldest Reborn on an empty board, but it's significantly less effective.


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