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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:02 pm 
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Just had a fun Game vs Yorrion/Lukka. Playing my Mutate deck, but added Karn and all the relevant artifacts in the sideboard. He was playing the version with Sharknado.


I went first. T2 Druid. T3 Karn, Search up Grafdigger's Cage. T4 Search up Spyglass Naming Teferi (he had 3 Sharknados in his hand.) and play Grafdigger and a Hushbringer His T4 he Cycles a Shark for a 2/2. T5 he kills Hush. T6 he plays Fires and Lukka, tries to sac the shark and realizes why I got Graftdigger. He eventually plays the enchantment and it dies to a Gemrazor. He Cycles the last one to trade with my Gemrazor, but it was all down hill from there for him.

The sad thing is it took Karn, Gemrazor AND Hush to really take away most of his options, and even then he still could have used a sweeper and an Agent to get back into it. Very resilient deck. My deck has answers for many of their removal, but nothing for ALL of the removal. Alseid can protect from spot removal and Agent, but useless vs Sweepers. Paradise is same way. Hush dies to the shock enchantment, but if you make it bigger with Mutate, it is now vulnerable to Elspeth It is a riddle I have been trying to solve, but there is no easy win vs the deck that I have found, short of maindecking hate (Which I have seen btw) Karn is as far as I will go main deck, because at least it also gives me some other decent options like Shadowspear and Stonecoil serpent that is useful anyway for my deck. (Also trying Mirror shield in SB, but haven't actually pulled it yet)

Anyway, just wanted to share frustrating a Lucca player :P

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:05 am 
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Wintervoid wrote:
I have actually had some success lately with a Mutate deck. Nothing meta breaking, but a fun change from the normal.

4 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Hushbringer
4 Paradise Druid
4 Mythos of Nethrol
4 Dirge Bat
4 Gemrazer
4 Migratory greathorn
1 Polukranos, Unchained
1 Snapdex, Apex of the Hunt
4 Auspicious Starrix
1 Nethroi, Apex of Death
2 Plains
2 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Indatha Triome

Mutate is not great, but since each effect can give you a card or destroy an opponents, you don't lose too much if your creature is killed. If you are allowed to start adding effects though, it can get crazy. Mutating onto the lifelinkers can win you races, and Alsied can cause problems for removal, plus it is a mutate target. Polukranous is a crazy mutate target, although it rarely lives that long. If it does, you have unlimited fight ability. Snapdax can only mutate on with the mana base, unless you have a Druid up. Still, too good to not include. Snapdax on a Starris is pretty fun.

The deck does have some issues with Fires, but the 4 Gemrazers help...but at best, just evens out the match, although I constantly feel at a disadvantage. Hush is an issue for the Lurrus decks, but not as big of an issue as I originally thought it would be. The lifggain works pretty well vs Cycling decks. Also the deck has some issues vs red at times, really depends on draws. Sometimes it is a cakewalk, others I get crushed.

Still, just fun to use mutate.



I’ve been trying to find a good mutate deck and your brew looks very interesting. If you like Polukranous as a mutate target have you tried out Stonecoil Serpent? It’s the same idea (0/0 creature with +1/+1 counters) and the Trample, Reach and Protection from Multicolored can be relevant.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:10 am 
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Simic Flash should be good against Jeskai Lukka? They have lots of expensive spells, which should make an aggro-control strategy especially effective. Postboard they will have 4x Mystical Dispute and 4x Teferi, but they have 80 cards, the odds of them drawing these cards (especially by turn 3) will be lower. Of course BO1 should be even better. Has anyone tried it?


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:43 am 
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We had a chat about it in the Discord a week or so ago, I got made fun of by Cucho and Vert for guessing the matchup was probably 60-40 in favour of Flash, they though flash was much more favoured vs it but after thinking about it i've actually changed to about 50-50 haha

I think what it comes down to is that pretty much every card in the Yorion deck is must answer, meaning you need a counter for everything from the sweepers, to the fires, to the Teferi (most important, you can't win if your opponent has a teferi on board basically) and to the threats themselves (which is worse as they already start with 8 cards and Yorion itself is must counter, putting you down a card from the start) but you also lose the late game, meaning you need that balance of Ambusher backed up with a hand of counters to close it out quickly

Also, these fires decks also run Shark typhoon which is an uncounterable threat meaning it's very dangerous to attack in with your ambusher when they have 6 mana up.

As a final nail in the coffin even if flash is favoured vs yorion and i'm just bad at magic, the few aggro decks still kicking around (cycling and Obosh sac/mono black aggro are probably really tough for flash to beat, as they'll get big threats under the counters

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:46 am 
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I still think it can be done - after all the Yorion deck doesn't have that many must-counters (only 20ish cards out of 80) and you can always decline to attack into Shark Typhoon if they have 6 mana (they don't have many instant speed plays to use on anything other than Typhoon). But based on what I've seen people have certainly tried Flash, so if it hasn't stuck, it must not be a good metagame choice.

Speaking of which: boy does the metagame look crappy. I'm not really playing constructed since I'm focused on limited, but just check this out: https://article.hareruyamtg.com/article/40706/?lang=en. It comes with a video.

That, in a MagicFest final. One game takes 28 minutes and is decided by who was greedier during deckbuilding. Seriously?! We could really use the likes of Nexus or Scapeshift back in the meta so these decks have to worry about actually putting up a clock.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:27 am 
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:50 am 
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Banedon's watch:


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:01 am 
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Hahaha :D

I suppose that just shows how hard it is to balance Magic - different people have different meta preferences. Some people, like the author of that article, genuinely like midrange grind fests while I can't stand it; others genuinely dislike Nexus while I didn't mind.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:57 am 
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So there's been some talk about how horrible the standard ladder is atm. Is this true, or do magic players always bitch about the meta, no matter what?

I literally have played one ladder game in about two weeks, using a jank hateful eidolon deck. Played against the zenith flare cycling deck, which is pretty boring. No interaction, they just cycle cards and hope to draw into a zenith flare big enough to either kill me or keep them alive. So yeah, not alot of fun, but that's just anecdotal. I have seen some temur clover make a resurgence, which is cool, cause I love that deck.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:06 pm 
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That dudes been playing since July 2019. Wtf does he know about a boring meta.

There are a lot of different decks in the ladder. That's a good thing. People are only complaining because they cant focus on beating one or two good decks and hope to dominate the meta. With the diversity, it's hard to put the right hate cards in your deck and keep your game plan in tact.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:24 pm 
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Meh, I don't know where you're seeing the diversity. There's a fairly well-established best deck in this meta (Yorion), and it's a silly one because the amount of value it generates is unbeatable. You beat it by playing the same deck and being even greedier than the standard lists. Most of the other decks in the meta all cannot beat Yorion, it can be adapted to beat most things. If you try to aggro, they are White and Red so they have access to Bonecrusher Giant, Deafening Clarion, Shatter the Sky. If they're not Jeskai then they are Bant, in which case they have Arboreal Grazer.

And then there's cycling. Nice thing about this deck is how good it is with turn 1 Fox, and how bad it is otherwise. Imagine being on the draw against this deck and having Bonecrusher Giant + Deafening Clarion in your hand. Sounds good right? They go T1 Fox, T2 2x cycle, and now it's out of range. That card polarizes play/draw like few others can.

Some people might like this meta but I'm not keen at all. At minimum, last meta was better.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:07 pm 
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Okay, i have been bouncing around on decks (all BO1) and from my limited experience to Mythic (Still only 95%, just hit tonight) seems like the top decks are Yorian Agent, Cycling, Kurega Fires and then probably Adventure. I played all but Kurega, and they all are powerful. The cycling dck I am guessing would not do as well BO3 now that peopel are preparing for it though. Many other good decks out there though that can win any given game.

Anyway, I didn't like Yorian, and I was playing a non Yorian control deck, but seemed like an uphill battle.

I went back to Mutate and found a deck that got me through Diamond to Mythic. I do NOT think it is T1...but it is close enough that it has a chance vs any deck.

Deck list is similar to before, but some changes:

Companion: Umori, the Collector

4 Alseid of Life's Bounty
4 Hushbringer
3 Barkhide Troll
4 Paradise Druid
4 Dirge Bat
4 Gemrazer
4 Migratory Greathorn
4 Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt
4 Auspicios Starrix
2 Plains
2 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Indatha Triome

Now, this deck actually does pretty well vs Yorion. First off, there is little to steal with Agent if you are careful. Alseid can sac in response to give something Pro Blue or just so itself does not get taken, Hushbringer shuts down Agent, Toll gets one round of Hexproof and Druid is hexproof as long as you to not tap it. Everything else should mutate on to one of those. Shark is still and issue, but Gemrazer helps there. They can steal your land, but often Greathorn makes that irrelevant. The real danger are boardwipes. Clarion can be dodged by mutating on a 4+ toughness creature, but Shatter will still wipe you. The only saving grace is if you have a 4 poewer creature out, you can make it almost a 1-1 trade. Like, A Druid with Greathorn on it and a Umori out, you actually come out even if they wipe you. Umori draws a card, Greathorn already got you a land, and Druid trades with Shatter. I will sometimes cast Umori just top draw out the Shatter. Now, I am NOT saying this is the Yorrion Killer, but it does have tools that are good vs Yorion.

Now, Kurega is quite a bit tougher. Basically, you need to have the right removal at the right time. Normally the game goes against you, but sometimes you can Gem their fires, and then Dirge their creatures as they come out. Again, not often, but sometimes you can make them feel useless. Overall, my worst matchup.

Vs Cycling it is all about the lifegain. Snapdax on Hush or Alseid is generally enough to seal it, but with that deck sometimes it is just too explosive. I have had a few games where they would have me down to 8ish, and they are eyeing a flare next turn. That is followed by A snapdax on Hush to gain 4, then attack for an additional 10. At the least, you are gaining 6 points a turn. Usually, the Flare is used on Snapdax....but that is one less flare at least.

Most the other decks it is about even vs, although a bit weaker vs counter flash decks. But all i ask for is a chance vs most decks.

I think the thing I like most about the deck is that it can change the board state very quickly. SThe deck can snowball if people let it, and with the hexproof, sometimes they don't have a say in the matter. Keeping a druid untapped just to have a mutate target that is untouchable except to Shatter can be a game winning strategy at times if you have the cards in hand to snowball. Actually...i think that is what I will name the deck "Snowball's Chance"

again, not top tier, but a nice change from what I normally see out there. People are starting to run mainboard hate vs Yorion, which means other decks have a slight edge vs them. My Yorion "hate" is generally good vs a wide field.

Anyway, hopefully someone has some fun with it as well.

Edit (made it to 1412 before calling it quits tonight. All night only 1 Keruga deck and no Yorians. Lots of Lucca, Obosh and cycling though. Played several mutate decks as well, and beat them all. IMO, this is the best current mutate build, maybe could use some minor tweaking? I did have to slog through 97-99 though. Slightly more wins then loses, maybe 55%-60%)

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:38 pm 
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Six packs of Ikoria to the first person who redeems this code: 1M3-cA6H-UYV
Please post after you do.
Arena only let's you redeem one prerelease per set and I had two so there you go...

Also, in addition to the usual PlayIkoria code, FNMATHOME will net you two cosmetics fyi. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:40 pm 
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Pure with the rare appearance!!


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:55 pm 
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Pure! Long time man!

(also i totally redeemed that code, much obliged)

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:23 am 
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Pure! Long time man!

(also i totally redeemed that code, much obliged)

You filthy Camper!!

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:04 am 
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Six packs of Ikoria to the first person who redeems this code: 1M3-cA6H-UYV
Please post after you do.
Arena only let's you redeem one prerelease per set and I had two so there you go...

Also, in addition to the usual PlayIkoria code, FNMATHOME will net you two cosmetics fyi. :thumbsup:


Thanks

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:13 am 
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God it feels so good to rearrange the face of greedy Yorion players with Zvi's monogreen list. Like, their hand is all ammunition for the mirror with Agent of Treachery and Chemister's Insight and Elspeth Conquers Death and they die in 4 attack steps while struggling to draw Shatter the Sky. Playing 80 cards does come with a disadvantage! Plus one opponent actually played T2 Birth T3 Teferi T4 Shatter and still died. Yeah, take that.

That said, the list really shows how stupid the meta is. You'd think in decks like this Vivien would be a natural fit, if not maindeck then at least in the sideboard to bring it in against control, and yet it's not there. As Zvi writes:

Quote:
What you cannot do is use half measures. You can't hedge your bets and play value cards like Vivien. You need to go for the throat.

Which makes sense. About half your opponents will utterly bury you in card advantage and value if you let the game go long. One does not grind out a Yorion or Keruga, or for that matter a Wilderness Reclamation. If your opponent starts with eight cards, the best way to counteract that is to not give them enough time to play those cards.


So the meta is play Yorion / Reclamation or try to go under them. There is no middle ground.

What a crappy meta.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:39 am 
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Not even that, the meta is Jeskai Yorion, if you are playing anything else - Temur, Lurrus Cycle- you are losing about 8% win rate.

That said the pile looks hyper aggressive, is very much worth trying.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:27 am 
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Take a look a this crap:
MQ May 10 win lists
Jeskai Lukka Fires (Yorion) 8
Azorius Control (Yorion) 2
Temur Adventures 2
Temur Reclamation 2
Monored Aggro (Obosh) 1
Rakdos Sacrifice (Lurrus) 1
Selesnya Auras (Lurrus) 1

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