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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:54 pm 
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That's not at all what the line is about, for instance at what moment Penelope was subject of human culture?
Violeta was about 40 minutes after we confirmed our suspicions... Francisca´s belly became something entirely different from that moment on, my life changed, her life too, Violeta did not even had a name and she was being expected and welcomed to the world... we did not knew what sex she was, we did not knew how many weeks of gestation she was, or if she was even viable, she was not even born... every couple or women reacts different but there's a process that happens to all of them if that process does not sow human identity the embryo is not subject of human culture, and the abortion does not generates funeral rites or mourning.

Is not about the cultural practices a baby learns is the cultural practices a baby triggers what beggins to make it humain... a pregnant woman that starts to show the effects of pregnancy also generates human responses. So there's only a small window in which an abortion can be performed.

As a general rule... let women pick their brains with this one....:P


It’s flowery to say Part of Human Culture, but essentially that’s just wanted or unwanted. Nothing changes with the fetus. It’s rationalizing personhood on externalities. Penelope was Subject of Human Culture the second we got positive pregnancy test, but due to wife’s age we were in higher risk category for defects. Potential we would have gotten abortion if found out later in pregnancy that baby had defects. Maybe not, we didn’t have to make that call so IDK, but it’s not like she was a human until we decided she wasn’t and aborted her. But I’m not sure what you mean by small window? Maybe to you it would be wrong for us to have later decided to abort?

I’m not trying to make any abortion laws or anything, but it’s ok to think about even tho imma dood

It's not a frigging switch jeez...
Human/ non human

This argument encloses the women's right to choose too.

DJ0045 wrote:
It’s flowery to say Part of Human Culture, but essentially that’s just wanted or unwanted.


Pretty much. And unwanted is a very weak reason for an abortion. I'm not saying it's a wrong reason, and I'm definitely not saying the decision shouldn't be legal. BUT, this type of logic certainly lends credence to the Conservative critique. It also begs the, who is less Moral, question.

What are you actually saying?

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:03 pm 
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Wintervoid wrote:
as bad as it is now in 2020, it is soooo much better then so many other times in history. Like, i am glad I mostly missed Vietnam and race riots of the 60's (and there was a virus that killed 100k at the same time) or even the 50's with McCarthyism or WW2.


I talked to my dad earlier in summer and asked how he thought it compared to the 60s. He said 60s were worse, but mostly cause Vietnam was happening too. We don’t have a big war like that, but they didn’t have a long running lockdown. Father’s retired, so I think his lockdown experience has been different from people with young kids, small businesses, etc. Plus it was earlier in lockdown. Not that I think it’s def worse now, but maybe closer than not

My area really only had one bad night. A few days of smaller instances after, but really just the one day where I feared for my family’s safety, and then having to deal with the aftermath of break in and looting at my office. But I’m in a lower income neighborhood in close proximity to downtown, which is in line of fire if more rioting breaks out. Definitely cross my fingers and hope for the best any time there’s an incident that causes rioting to break out elsewhere, hoping it doesn’t spread through the country like in June. And ya the election has me nervous. Was feeling pretty confident Trump wouldn’t win for some weeks, but these east coast riots happening right when people about to vote and Pennsylvania a swing state

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:05 pm 
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yeah your vocabulary seems like you were in a lower income neighborhood


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:09 pm 
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It's not a frigging switch jeez...
Human/ non human

This argument encloses the women's right to choose too.


I dunno. I’m apparently not understanding you. A woman’s right to choose has to be done within a small window upon learning of pregnancy, when she decides whether or not to make it Part of Human Culture? Does learning new information about the health and formation of the fetus later allow re-choosing? If so, how is it not a human-justkidding-nothuman switch?

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:10 pm 
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yeah your vocabulary seems like you were in a lower income neighborhood


Oy, eww gawt a loicense for that burn, govna?

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:13 pm 
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hahahah, you sound just like Nighthawk! LOVE IT


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:04 pm 
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That's not at all what the line is about, for instance at what moment Penelope was subject of human culture?
Violeta was about 40 minutes after we confirmed our suspicions... Francisca´s belly became something entirely different from that moment on, my life changed, her life too, Violeta did not even had a name and she was being expected and welcomed to the world... we did not knew what sex she was, we did not knew how many weeks of gestation she was, or if she was even viable, she was not even born... every couple or women reacts different but there's a process that happens to all of them if that process does not sow human identity the embryo is not subject of human culture, and the abortion does not generates funeral rites or mourning.

Is not about the cultural practices a baby learns is the cultural practices a baby triggers what beggins to make it humain... a pregnant woman that starts to show the effects of pregnancy also generates human responses. So there's only a small window in which an abortion can be performed.

As a general rule... let women pick their brains with this one....:P


It’s flowery to say Part of Human Culture, but essentially that’s just wanted or unwanted. Nothing changes with the fetus. It’s rationalizing personhood on externalities. Penelope was Subject of Human Culture the second we got positive pregnancy test, but due to wife’s age we were in higher risk category for defects. Potential we would have gotten abortion if found out later in pregnancy that baby had defects. Maybe not, we didn’t have to make that call so IDK, but it’s not like she was a human until we decided she wasn’t and aborted her. But I’m not sure what you mean by small window? Maybe to you it would be wrong for us to have later decided to abort?

I’m not trying to make any abortion laws or anything, but it’s ok to think about even tho imma dood

It's not a frigging switch jeez...
Human/ non human

This argument encloses the women's right to choose too.

DJ0045 wrote:
It’s flowery to say Part of Human Culture, but essentially that’s just wanted or unwanted.


Pretty much. And unwanted is a very weak reason for an abortion. I'm not saying it's a wrong reason, and I'm definitely not saying the decision shouldn't be legal. BUT, this type of logic certainly lends credence to the Conservative critique. It also begs the, who is less Moral, question.

What are you actually saying?


Unwanted isn't a very good excuse to terminate a life, but I'm stopping short of saying it should be illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:12 pm 
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I'm going to broil some rib eyes today.


Edit: actually its 5:15 now, I'm gonna cook them right now

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:06 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:

It’s flowery to say Part of Human Culture, but essentially that’s just wanted or unwanted. Nothing changes with the fetus. It’s rationalizing personhood on externalities. Penelope was Subject of Human Culture the second we got positive pregnancy test, but due to wife’s age we were in higher risk category for defects. Potential we would have gotten abortion if found out later in pregnancy that baby had defects. Maybe not, we didn’t have to make that call so IDK, but it’s not like she was a human until we decided she wasn’t and aborted her. But I’m not sure what you mean by small window? Maybe to you it would be wrong for us to have later decided to abort?

I’m not trying to make any abortion laws or anything, but it’s ok to think about even tho imma dood

It's not a frigging switch jeez...
Human/ non human

This argument encloses the women's right to choose too.

DJ0045 wrote:

Pretty much. And unwanted is a very weak reason for an abortion. I'm not saying it's a wrong reason, and I'm definitely not saying the decision shouldn't be legal. BUT, this type of logic certainly lends credence to the Conservative critique. It also begs the, who is less Moral, question.

What are you actually saying?


Unwanted isn't a very good excuse to terminate a life, but I'm stopping short of saying it should be illegal.

Interesting... How do you define human life then?

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:30 pm 
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Yet another big point of contention - what is a human life?

This one is like a trolley problem. On one rail there’s a baby that would be born. On the other is all the trauma its birth might bring. And I certainly wouldn’t suggest that people are unaware of the importance of the decision they make.


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:42 pm 
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No really reading an answer tho...

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:39 pm 
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No really reading an answer tho...


Do you have an answer?

My guess is the most reasonable starting point is at fertilization. At that point, baring genetic disorders, or other abnormalities/medical issues, it’s going to be born, live a life, and die.

If you are going to force me to argue pro-life, let me say in advance that I lean pro-choice. I’m saying that, because once again, I’m going to point out to you that the other side has a valid argument, but that doesn’t mean I fully accept their argument.

Now that that’s out of the way.

Outside of an abortion, what is stopping it from being born, living a life, and dying?


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:42 pm 
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Miscarriage!


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:45 pm 
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Miscarriage!


... is covered by "genetic disorders, or other abnormalities/medical issues."


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:54 pm 
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Dammit. I hate this game show

Btw I played TimePlay Live tonight. 9-10 questions on movies and you can win half a movie ticket. 225 players and your very own Barney got 1st place! Jess got 5th


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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:46 am 
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Just because a baby isnt wanted by its paternal parents does not mean that baby is not wanted.

That's my monkey wrench for now



Edit: Did y'all know that there are companies in China whose entire purpose is to pair up chinese babies with extreme or multiple birth defects with American Parents. And often the defects are either downplayed, glossed over, or in some cases never divulged.

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:38 am 
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sixty4half wrote:
That's my monkey wrench for now


Sixty eating “rib eyes” tonight like

graphic horror warning

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:49 am 
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I'm not going to watch that

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:03 am 
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By genetic disorders you mean that children with down syndrome could be aborted?

I took my definition of Human life from this Chilean biologist Humberto Maturana, he states that human life is a indivisible compound of culture and biology.
*That and a couple other things but for the sake of this argument that should suffice.

Answering to TIMH, yes by this definition a women has only a window in which she can abort, its not a big window.

This complements with 3 basic causals for abortion.
- Rape
- Inviability of the fetus - as in my baby will die hours after born or has no brain-
- Danger for the mothers life

That's basically my stand on abortion.

-Day after pill checks
-Women choice checks within a timeframe
-Birth control checks
-Three basic casuals checks

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 Post subject: Re: Off Topic Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:55 am 
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I'm sorry, I cant ascribe to that because if we make that the criteria, the next logical step for pro lifers is to say, culturally all babys are wanted, and if that's the case, no mother can ever choose to abort. Just because the parents dont want the child doesnt mean that nobody does. As soon as the egg splits into two cells it shows signs of life through a biological process, and if that life is culturally valuable (and they all are to the religous) then viola, no abortions.

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