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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:07 am 
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Isn't this pretty much the same as Magic Duels system?

https://kotaku.com/how-buying-cards-wor ... 1822151318

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 am 
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Wot? I don’t think it could be more different.

I really like the sound of it though. The vault is a great idea and much easier to deal with excess cards compared to dust and crafting

Wildcards are so cool and are going to give me major analysis paralysis on deciding what to use them for

Getting coins and free cards per win is cool

Keeper drafts sounds like a fun way to build a collection

I don’t think I will ever buy gems. I’m sure we can earn them other ways

Looking forward to hearing how we earn coins through special events

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Finished up AI round with warriors guild - actually intentionally kept a couple hands I expected to be on the iffy side to stress test a bit (4 land with no 1 drop, 2 land with an inciter and no 2 drop). Won all 3 handily with both the "good" keep and the 4 lander cranking out lethal on T5 and though the 2 lander durdled around a bit missing 2 land drops there was never any serious jeopardy (ended the game just over 20 life thanks to harvester, believe on T7 or 8).

This list reminds me a bit of the rakdos electric cars from last round that I liked a lot (at least in terms of experience) - plays fast and clean but with enough reach to put the games away (maybe a tad less explosive out of the gate, but with a better late game). Think this one would have to be the early favorite for the record category since fast and consistent tends to be a nice formula.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Part 1

bzzt’s Periodic Table of Elementals

AI Hard 1 - Victory! A suspiciously easy victory, too. I thought Magic was supposed to be harder than this. A Sylvan Advocate, some ramping, some Heavening, and then a bunch of planeswalkers and that’s all she wrote.

AI Hard 2 - Victory! Also easy enough. A couple Gaea’s Revengeses and we’re golden!

AI Hard 3 - Victory! Once again, props to the Sylvan Advocate. Nothing too fancy, but the guy shows up and just does the work. Solid card, all around, and a hell of a guy. Great singing voice.

Versus 1 - Victory! Had a good lead against some orzhombies when I stalled. Nothing but mana for a stretch, but then my opponent made a mistake. He used Rise from the Grave on my Nissa, Vastwood Seer, flipped her, and she came back to me. That also triggered some good luck, apparently, because I started getting some good draws. Closing rank 32.

Versus 2 - Victory! Against an azorius control deck, was only able to get one creature out at a time, and then he would remove it. Managed to get two planeswalkers out for a bit but they got cast out. Zendikar’s Roil was my ace in the hole, though, when I managed to sneak it out. Closing rank 33.

Versus 3 - Loser! Didn’t have enough little peons to put in the field against some orzhombies. He had decent removal for my parade of planeswalkers, too. Closing rank 32.

Versus 4 - Victory? My opponent quit early, ceding me the victory, but then the AI cast Timberland Guide and froze up my game. Closing rank 33.

Versus 5 - Loser! Against golgari elves, I was outmanoeuvred by his tiny little things, in the end. He went wide and it worked. Closing rank 32.

Final scientific analysis using the soupcannon Internal Statistical Sampling Yield (sISSY, for short) here is the final rating for bzzt’s Elements of Style.

sISSY rating: 13/18

Not bad. We’ll see how sISSY this deck is compared to the others shortly.

Please note that the sISSY method is highly technical and even has a spreadsheet! It is a total analysis of AI victories (out of 3), Versus victories (out of 5), fun factor, and use of tribe (each out of 5). I’m not just half-assing this thing, guys. I’m using my whole ass!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Ooohh. Now I know who keeps leaving butt prints on the copy machine.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Wot? I don’t think it could be more different.

I really like the sound of it though. The vault is a great idea and much easier to deal with excess cards compared to dust and crafting

Wildcards are so cool and are going to give me major analysis paralysis on deciding what to use them for

Getting coins and free cards per win is cool

Keeper drafts sounds like a fun way to build a collection

I don’t think I will ever buy gems. I’m sure we can earn them other ways

Looking forward to hearing how we earn coins through special events


Yes I guess if you put it that way :) I don't really care about being able to pick which cards, and enjoyed the duels system of just grind grind grind and you get what you get (but with no duplicates). But I guess that doesn't make enough money?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Yeah I préfèred Duels too but it sounds like their optimizing it for people that play a bit each day. Sounds really fun

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 pm 
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I like the new system it seems fun... I mean you can buy a few Rares and mythics, build a competitive deck a an grind from there, besides they said that there is the daily quest, the card per win, the weekly quest and the vault... that seems fair to me.
Sure the whole collection is going to be a chore but at least you can choose specifics from your wild cards, and work your way...
Like I said... I like it, I was ready to be disappointed by Wotc once again and they fail!
ok I will go throw the torture of building this piles, I already got Bzzt ready... and mine!! yay! and hopefully play a few games vs the AI soon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:59 pm 
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I’m testing yours reight now, Cucho. You better not disappoint me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Cucho, you won’t be able to buy a few rares and mythics. Sounds like packs only. The only way to get specific fix cards is to get wildcards with the appropriate rarity. The part I didn’t understand was if you don’t use a wildcard, or don’t open it, it increases your chance of earning a better rarity wildcard? Is that right?


For the contest, I blew through the AI with all decks in over an hour. 7-0. Good job guys. Will bring to ladder in an hour or so. Can’t wait.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Will update as I progress.

Bzzt Elementals Opponent Result
AI Green Stompy Win Mulligan to 6 , I maybe waste a Harnessed Lightning on an Exemplar of strength but I want to get the engine going. Mina denn lets me flip Nissa pretty quick. I win by doing the Nissa 6 elemental thing, how fitting! First time I've done that I think.
AI Red white and Blue America! Loss They cartouche a gust walker pretty early. Also a Gideon Trials Emblem to fight through. I get Roil down and Nissa Vital force but then get stuck on lands. The power of Mina's return land to hand and Zendy Roil helps me. I get stuck on 5 land though and Glyph Keeper/Curator of Mysteries flies right over me.
AI Mono Green Win Sylvan Advocate / Mina / Chandra curve works well. Chandra sweeper helps me a bit. AI plays a 'Quarry Hauler' Camel bastard to remove my Chandra. Another first for me.

Notes: Early board feels pretty soft if you don't have a Sylvan Advocate. Getting to 5 mana and you're like awww yeah. Mina/Denn MVP

Human 1 RANK 40 4C Planeswalkers WIN He does a board wipe on 2 trackers which F's me. and then that stupid Planeswalker deck thing.. He Tamiyo's but I nissa and wipe his tamiyo. Then he kills 2 of my lands when I nissa them with fatal push! But I eek out a win by +ing nissa till the cows come home.
Human 2 Ranka 37 RG Wolves LOSS Pretty even but he lands a Chandra Flamecaller and I’m stuck on 5 lands with a bunch of uncracked clues.
Human 3 Rank 39 White Dwarves! WIN He gets Consulate Dreadnought out while I nissas pilgrimage. He gets me to 13 but I rec sage his Dreadnought, THEN I rec sage his peace collosus.
Human 4 Rank 36 Blue Kefnet ctrl WIN He scoops on opening , maybe because MTGA server just came back up :) I decide to play it out. He gets a Baral and a flipped vrynns prodigy but I'm elementing hard with roil and tracker.
Human 5 Rank 37 RB vamps LOSS He runs me over with Stensia Masquerade and Bloodhall and Furyblade.

Final Record: 5-3(3-2) Very impressed with the deck! The early game seems a little soft but not much else to work with there besides Terrain elemental. I like it and was impressed with the creativity.



Cucho Thopters Opponent Result
AI Golgari Riff Raff Win Harness/Thopter Engineer/Double Whirler Rogue curve. GG
AI RWG Win I get Heaven'd pretty badly after a good opening. ToGP comes up useful along with a Harvester I ride to win.
AI UBR Win I get a better board presence and slowly Copter/Harvester to death. ToGP comes in handy again.

Notes: Feels OK but pretty safe. I don't get to Rebuke or Essence Flux. TOGP a nice touch though. I don't really like Saheeli.

Human 1 Rank 37 Red/Black/Blue Control LOSS They have 2 Languishes which is pretty much GG for this deck.
Human 2 Rank 38 RG Wolves WIN Rematch against the guy I lost with Bzzt.. This time I get the thopters down and I’m able ot Harness lightning his early kessig prowler. He chandra torches, but then I do in response and whack his. Gg
Human 3 Rank 40 Red Aggro LOSS He gets pretty much a perfect draw and invigorated rampage/fiery temper finishes me off.

Final Record 6-2(3-2) Deck worked as I more or less expected. Thopters have a nice core and ToGP and bounce were niceish effects although they only helped me twice.



Cardboard Bounce Opponent Result
AI Izzet Win I haven't played a Meandering River in a while! Gust Walker/ Reflector Mage / then spell queller their kefnet like a SPIRIT BOSS.
AI Dimir Win Harbinger of the Tides is double blue, that seems excessive. I never cast Spell Queller on turn 3. Am I doing it wrong? This time I dec in stone a kefnet, feels good yeah. He Nevers (!) my Kor Castigator, and Commits my Queller. He gets to 7 mana when I'm at 4. I get stuck with only 1 blue and open into wonder, docent and harbinger only cards in hand.
AI Orzhov Weenies Win Kor Castigator has to have the weirdest Wizard power ever. He would probably come in handy facing my Scion deck though :) I get to Deepfiend his Caracal board, gg.

Notes: Reflector mage / Spell Queller mvp

Human 1 Rank 34 Red/Green Delirium WIN He gets a Vessel of Nascency out. I get a Castigator and a dauntless river marshall out!! What is funny though is that I kill him with 2 Castigators by back to back dispersing his 6/6 Woodland Wanderer!
Human 2 Rank 40 RBG Duskwatch Recruiter WIN I double Dauntless Marshall, he double Duskwatch Recruiters. I dec in stone them both and he scoops by turn 5.
Human 3 Rank 35 RB WIN I keep a 2 lander castigator open. I cartouche it, he imprisons by the moon. I get a good board presense and deepfiend his Disciple of the ring then bounce it. He gets it out Again! But Spire Patrol with extra mana rues the day.


Final Record 7-1(4-1) It was a fun ride Kor Castigator, and I didn't even get to sneak past Scions with you. Anything creature based I think this deck would have an okay shot against. Control matchup is a little rough. Maybe a couple of Censors in lieu of Open into Wonder?


Haven Warriors Opponent Result
AI Rakdos Win He nevers my Glory Bound Initiate and then I'm starved for mana/another fighter. Then he Heart Pierce Manticores my Cartouched' Hanweir. Luckily I have a harvester to stabilize. I get Oketra out and slowly board adv to death.
AI Blue/Green Counters Win I only have 1 creature and 2 ships in my opener so a bit of a slow start. Inciter comes on and gets me a shot in with Hanweir Garrison, gg.
AI Boros weenie Win Flooded with Creatures this time. Selfless spirit seems like a really good fit. He comes at me with a 'Those who serve', gg.

Notes: 2 creature opening hand seems vital. Inciter seemed a bit awkard and I ended up copter dumping him.

Human 1 Rank 39 Rakdos Intruder WIN He gets t2 intruder t3 trawler out, so I am thinking I have a badass here. I get t2 copter t3 Hanweir Garrison out. The key play I think is dec in stoning his Trawler. GG
Human 2 Rank 40 Red Aggro LOSS He gets Bomat, Kari Kev , Crop Crasher open and mine is just a haie slower. He fiery tempers my copter gg.
Human 3 Rank 40 blue black green LOSS I kind of play on my heels because I have Nahiri. I reallly dink around with her and get her to 12 power because I'm not sure what card to go get with ultimate. I finally get Hanweir garrison. He languishes at a key time and takes over thereafter. Loss totally my fault :(

Final Record 5-3 (2-3) Felt like I was definitely in it in all games, and one of the losses was all my fault and gets an asterisk. I think considering what there is to work with with Warriors, this deck gets almost most out of it.



Mowie Scions Opponent Result
AI Dimir Win I think I'm an 'over-evo-leaper'. He gets a Death Mastery out guarded by a Curator of Mysteries. Luckily I top deck a never and do the smothering abomb value train. I exhaust 40/60 my deck tho :o
AI White/Green Win I double fatal push his exemplar and Flameblade Adept which lets me get the evo leap train going.
AI Red/Blue/Black Win Ahhh the ol double blisterpod opening to really make opponent sweat. I bonesplinter his good stuff and get Bontu and Blisterpod out to take control.

Notes: In hindsight I wish I had Oviya Pash Lifecrafter or whatever in this deck. She'd be a good use to make a big creature with all those scions. As a late game topdeck. Also is Sandwurm Convergence better than Cruel Reality?

Human 1 Rank 36 WIN Drawing 2 Evo Leaps SUCKS. I should probably switch it to 1 evo leap, 1 vampiric rites or 1 shadows of the past. He gets bloodrage brawler/neheb out but I successfully EVO Leap him like crazy chumping for 5 turns , must have drove him bonkers.. I noxious gearhulk and stabilize. gg
Human 2 Rank 35 RG Monsters WIN He has a slow start with a t3 bestiary. I get scion summoner and visionary out and From Beyond. He gets hazoret and rhonas so I decide to Ormendahl.. Phew..
Human 3 Rank 36 GW Wolves WIN He dec instones my Bontu so my backup plan is cruel reality. I turtle hard and he scoops when I drop it.

Final Record 8-0 (5-0) I love playing this deck and feel like piloting experience helped me in 2 of the games for sure. After getting good feedback from Nomad, I think Sandwurm Convergence for Cruel Reality, and I'd like to try an Oviya sagecrafter as I feel like I could get a 5/5 for 5 in late games somewhat regular.



Soups Dorks Opponent Result
AI Blue/White Win T1 Anointer Priest/ t4 Gideon aww yeah fast start. The AI gets to 5 mana and doesn't play anything GG. I grasp his manticore which feels good!
AI Blue/Green/Red Win I get a good lifeflow going with envoy and priest. He Heaven and Earth's me TWICE!! Vampire Envoy sticks around though and pings him to death.
AI Red white Caracal Loss I get bloodbond going with cliffhaven and 2 envoys. He gets a Caracal with Honored Crop Champion :o He Samuts me with 5 (!) other creatures on the board and swings for 18.

Notes: My fav card in this archetype is Drana's Emissary. I'm not sure about Drana's Chosen. I do kind of like the removal/tokeny subtheme though.

Human 1 Rank 36 PLANZWALKERZ LOSS I get my bloodbond Vampire up to like 6/6. But he's slowly ramping and Heaven/Earth's me. Followed up with PLANESWALKERZ. I kill Nahiri which I take as a win.
Human 2 Rank 39 Grixis ctrl PLANZWALKERS LOSS I have to mulligan to 6 and have a slow start (2 vamp envoy). He doesn't do anything til turn 4. LANGUISH. I drop Gideon which he Nevers.
Human 3 Rank 40 RBG Planeswalkers LOSS He gets Glint Sleeve and 2 Trackers out which easily races my lifegain :/

Final Record 3-5 (1-4) A bad run against planeswalkers decks but with Allys, that is always going to be a brutal matchup. I feel the token innovation is really good here, and like Cardboard's deck, it asks the opponent to make a lot of choices.


Flaky's Spirits Opponent Result
AI Red/White Win He bloodrage brawlers me to and Trial of Zeal's to kill the Wyvern. I get good draws though and race him!
AI Red/White/Green Win Nebelgast/Niblis is a nasty pair out there together. Essence Fluxing to create a surprise blocker is so fun.
AI White weenie Win Facing the dreaded Kinbaille skimirshier/sacred cat open, I spell queller him 2 times in a row to tempo it out.

Notes: Felt pretty darn powerful. Was on the play I think each time.

Human 1 Rank 36 Grixis ctrl LOSS Prob my least fav deck to play against which probably means it’s the best. He censors my herald which means gg. He gets to 5 mana which means Jace and the Lili last hope.. PLANESWALKERZ.
Human 2 Rank 39 Dimir drake haven LOSS I get Bishop and Spirit out, He gets Baral and then Copter which stops my attack in its tracks til Avacyn. I flip Avacyn and wipe his board and save my bishop because of Always watching. He stabilizes though and I get him down to 1 life :/
Human 3 Rank 38 GB Mythics WIN I have a bad slow opening hand and he ramps pretty well. Avacyn is the equalizer and some Nebelgast Tapping saves the day.

Final Record: 4-4 (1-4) Did pretty rough on the ladder, but I feel like one of those losses my fault for sure (I ended up with starting hands with no 2 drops frequently, and didn't see Rattlechains once :(). Feel like it is a pretty solid deck. Maybe a Censor or 2?


Judging:
Bzzt 4 pts
Cucho 3 pts
Cardboard 5.5 pts
Haven 2 pts
Mowie 5.5 pts
Soup 0 pts
Flaky 1 pts

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Last edited by Mowie666 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Ok let’s start the real ladder playtesting!

Round one... fight!

Bzzzts elementals first.. insane win versus Izzet energy. 1-0

Cucho thopters next...win versus Boris allies. 1-0

Nomads mages are up..

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Last edited by Black Barney on Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:35 pm 
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I think Soupcannon's list on the first page has 1 too many drana's chosen and 1 too few kalastria healers?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Yeah he needs another healer , but we’ll see

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Ok so Nomads mages got a great win against high level opponent. 1-0

Havens warriors are up..omg what a match. I’m up against rank 3 azorious. He gets out a ton of land and keftnet early. I get inciter and Gideon early. I stupidly give haste to inciter by accident which sucked. I get out garrison and oktera but he’s got tons of bl Chers. I sac Gideon to get emblem and play insult and injury in the same turn and swing. He’s down to three and I’m at 16 but he has a full hand tons of mana and kefnet. He only has four blockers but I still have garrison who he hasn’t killed. He prioritized the inciter the turn before! Yay so with Gideon’s emblem, swinging with five creatures is plenty cuz garrison makes more and he only has five life. I was sure i was going to Lise. 1-0

Mowies scions are next. This deck is weird...big win against rank three Boros aggro. 1-0

Soups allies are next!! ... up against rank 1 Simic Mill. This should be easy. My first hand has two land, a basic and Aether Hub. I can’t keep that right? I need both my colours bad. Mulligan to one land, mull to three plains in a 6 card Hand. I have to keep. I end up getting from ce p’ains And no swamp shows up until he plays Memory and I’m down to 6 cards in my library. Ridiculous. 0-1

Flakys spirits up last to see if Soup will end up alone in last place or what...I’m up against good rank RDW. He goes wide fast and has tons of removal. I make a huge misplay early by playing Declarations in stone on Kari Zev instead of Always Watching. He then zaps my Spell Queller which frees Garrison, who should have been the target for Dec in Stone. I don’t think it changed much but my mana was very inefficient. I finally get out minois of frost with Herald to lock down Hazoret and I commit his Garrison with two Cartouches on it. But I’m at one life and then I very stupidly tap his Helluon leaving him with Adept and a Token to swing with against my two big b’ Chers. I forgot Adept had menace. I should have tapped the 1/2 menace instead of 4/4 haste. Dammit. He was at 9 and I was swinging with 7, close. I think I would have lost anyway but I’m not sure. 0/1, BELETED.

So round one claims two victims. Soup and Flaky will tie for last with 0.5 points each. Crap.

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Last edited by Black Barney on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Dang, Mowie running marathons around here.

Convergence is definitely better than Reality if you can get to 8. The no flyers thing is huge.

And I like Queller their T4 when possible. Better value.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Ok I got 30 Minutes still so let’s start round two

First up is Mowies scions...up against midrank Radkos. My initial hand has two land, one of each. I have blister pod and Bine Solinters so it seems fine. I get 15 cards deep and don’t draw a single land. He has 4/4 flying dragons coming at me and I’m dropping blister pods like a retarded. I of course draw into Ulamog and Gearhulk who are laughing at me, « put me in, coach! Put me in!! ». What the hell is going on tonight? Are you guys not p’aying Enough land or am I just insanely unlucky?! Dismal death and it takes him forever too. 1-1 . It will get BELETED if anything wins this round...

Havens warriors are up...midrank mono black . Huge win after a nasty languish wipe. 2-0!

Nomads mages will end the night...

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Last edited by Black Barney on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Yes if my list doesn't hit its land drops, it is good night irene pretty fast :(

I think thopters/warriors have the power edge so far, but I like the artistic impression of the other lists :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Nomads mages against Radkos vamps. Excellent board control for Barney. Tapping his lifelinkers and putting pressure . We pull it off ! 2-0

That’s it for tonight. My poor rank :(

Finish round two hopefully soon. Cucho and bzzzt have to go still

Sorry Mowie. You’ll get two points at least.

This judge judges on who can go the furthest on their first try. Looking for longest win streak. I do it this way cuz I like to reward Spike decks and this way I don’t have to play a bad deck twice

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:20 am 
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Mowie666 wrote:
I think Soupcannon's list on the first page has 1 too many drana's chosen and 1 too few kalastria healers?


See, I assumed with where it was in the list and the 3 of them it meant drana's emissary - and after 9 games against the AI trying to figure out what I wanted to be doing differently came away thinking "I really wish I had a bit more token generation, and the 4th healer". Drana's Chosen+healer 4 probably would make a lot of sense there, I just never had played her and since it didn't link didn't think to shuffle up through the mana cost to see if there actually was a drana's chosen. Oops. There were a few pretty epic wins in there (cliffhaven+healer+retreat was as good as advertised when it came together). Ended up with a ginormous bloodbond that carried another. MVP though (particularly at 1-of) was stoneforge masterwork, basically dictated the whole board whenever it showed up.

I did accomplish a new first - lost with the AI at -10 since I couldn't punch through to take out gideon of trials before it amassed an overwhelming ground force.

I'll replay it (at least the standard 3x) once we get a soup-ruling on what the list ought to be though (since we definitely can't do 3xchosen).

I did round out the series with thopters/wizards/elementals. All of them went 3-0.

Wizards went eerily according to plan (my favorite line from the notes: stuck at 3 mana - AI stuck at 0 blockers). Game 1 in particular I probably should just refer to the decklist play-notes (even though the AI can't really underestimate/get bluffed - it sure played like it).

Also, I think I agree thopters is probably the biggest challenger to warriors on record. The walkers behind a wall of thopters just seems mean, and sky-sovereign/thopter engineer is just gross. It's not as fast, but all 3 games felt like I was toying with the AI.

Playing my elemental list for the series I did notice a couple of things worth mentioning - I don't suicide them really, but b/c the walkers have so much redundancy, particularly on the Nissa's I'll trade them much lower than typical -like actively seeking to trade vastwood seer for a 2 or even 1 drop if they're coming out fast or a T3 steward just to setup the next couple of draws and tank a hit or two. Aside from that, I think most everyone kinda got that it's not a "T5 omnath, lol!" sort of ramp - mostly just hit land drops and maybe get to the costlier cards on time or maybe a turn ahead of schedule without falling too far back on board. I think the thing I like about it is how 36/60 of the cards are land, get land, or (can) accelerate mana but once you're at 5/7 everything that enables the land-dropping (including the land and ramp with the landfall payoffs) ~converts to a threat/threat fetch late so its got gas for days. Attrition ramp? idk.


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