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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:56 am 
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You can tell the interest in stompy decks with all of the comments here - it's a long time favorite for many!

Also, from Nighthawk's comments and replies, it appears to me that he has tried nearly every suggestion made here as he has been playing this a ton and experimented a lot. That's about the best possible way to take advice and suggestions regarding a build...

Kudo's Nighthawk for a fun build that's also capable of holding it's own on the ladder...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:46 am 
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Cards I've been trying in the deck

Duskwatch Recruiter
Nissa, Vastwood Seer

I swapped out the Arborback for Nissa and been playing around with the number of recruiters (2 seems about right) as well as what's been cut for it. I've tried several combinations and so far I dropped down 1 land to 23. It's been fine with the additions I'm considering here which I believe offset enough. The last cut has been constantly changing and still don't know what it should be.

Regardless on how it goes about, I do think Recruiter merits testing (I've had a few promising games so far). It doesn't ramp but it can offset cost as well as be a mana sink, a flipped threat, eats removal and another early play this deck seems to need. It's definitely feels like it fits.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:42 pm 
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@Magister/GoA I can get behind Ballista in here, it's not the greatest target for spells like rishkars and onslaught but it can clear the way of chump blockers and can pressure walkers nicely as well, gonna try it out if the pilgramiges turn out to be overkill i don't see why not, although i am a bit worried we might lose some of the explosiveness.

@GoA I used to run 2 rec sage in here but in the end i found i was fighting a losing battle that way, even in the vehicle matchup (which is the worst thing this deck can see) you still frequently find yourself needing to find the sweeper anyway, and in this sort of deck we're already running so many situational cards that adding more just diluted the deck too much - having the wrong combination of cards means you end up having to do awful stuff like Rishkar's for 2 haha

@Kel Don't really agree with you there, i put [brewing] in the title and have been testing all the options people suggested and already made a bunch of changes (1 rogue's passage and bristling hydras are now in, and big Nissa and ballista's are looking decent as well) Fair enough if i'd just been dismissing everyone but i've gave reasons why i haven't liked cards you suggested like evo leap and hydra, there's no ego/malice involved, i just found those weaker then what we already have.

@Elk Big Nissa swap for stomper seems right, you lose the lifegain which sucks but you gain a lot of versatility in exchange, probably makes the deck stronger vs control/midrange and slightly weaker vs aggro which seems like a decent exchange, will have to get used to riskaring 1st main incase we hit nissa for the haste haha
When i first threw this thing together duskwatch was in for the reasons you said and it's nice to make up for the lack of a vegetation draw if it ever flips, i think in the end i cut them for advocates but can definitely see them getting back into the deck, i'm gonna try them in spot of the nissa's pilgrimages and see how they compete vs the ballista's.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:19 pm 
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@Kel Don't really agree with you there, i put [brewing] in the title and have been testing all the options people suggested and already made a bunch of changes (1 rogue's passage and bristling hydras are now in, and big Nissa and ballista's are looking decent as well) Fair enough if i'd just been dismissing everyone but i've gave reasons why i haven't liked cards you suggested like evo leap and hydra, there's no ego/malice involved, i just found those weaker then what we already have.


It was sort of a general NGA thing and not directed solely at you. I mean, I played mono green exclusively for 2-3 seasons and maintained a high 30's rank with it. So I was speaking from experience about Passage being a regular wincon, and as far as I knew you still hadn't included any (updated OP is still showing 24 forests).

Not sure on your reasoning for not liking a singleton Evo Leap. It's true you don't want to play it turn 2 if you have a mana dork, but I'd be surprised if you're playing precisely on curve thereafter. And if you were, that means you're not leaving any mana open for Primal Bellow or Blossoming Defense.
It certainly isn't useless in the late game when it turns mana dorks from a dead draw into something useful, or keeps your hand stocked if you opponent has answers for your first 2-3 bombs.
But I can maybe understand that running out of gas is less of a weakness for your version of mono green since you're mostly running protected creatures that are hard to remove.. As long as you don't run into multiple Blessed Alliance or similar.

How are you finding life without Rec Sages or any answer to fliers? Seems like Tutelage or vehicles/fliers would be an auto loss (since many fliers are Copters/Harvesters/Flagship that Rec Sage deals with)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Yeah, it's the Harvester/Copter thing that bothers me, since Onslaught misses them and they're both 1 to crew so unless you completely wipe the other side, they are just active again the next turn - possibly the same turn in response to Onslaught. Even if you DO wipe there's a decent chance they're active opponent's next turn. Ballista is solving some of the problem. Not sure it'll be 100% but it's better.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:54 am 
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The card I'm most unsure about is Sylvan Advocate. Your turn 2 play should do more than just sit there. Sure, it grows, but that's all. Duskwatch Recruiter can speed you up, if it flips, and can draw gas otherwise. Its ability also adds a virtual turn 3 play, which this deck has trouble with, too. The worst thing for this deck, as it is with all ramp decks, is running out of threats; so Recruiter is good.

I think Advocate is only really good for this deck, when it comes into play as a 4/5. So, IMHO, it could be cut, unless you are also running Woodland Bellower for that 6 lands 2 creatures 10-power play. But since you are running mana dorks, you might often end up not having enough lands in play for the stat boost anyway. Running Woodland is a consideration, though. Especially, if you decide to add Reclamation Sage as a maximum 1-of. But, as you said, this will cut into the explosiveness of this deck.

Another card I'm considering is Oath of Nissa, for drawing gas, smoothing draws in general, and for the simple reason of not having any 1-drops in the deck. No idea, what to cut for them though.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Come to think of it.. Any reason for shunning Verdurous Gearhulk? He's basically an 8/8 Trample for 5 mana (when you're paying the same for a 5/4 trample)
Can free cast him with Rishkar's.. And you can put the tokens on things that are capable of attacking the turn it enters play (essentially 4 Haste damage).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Based on NightHawk's deck, here are the changes I've been testing:

3 x Primal Bellow
2 x Sylvan Advocate
2 x Duskwatch Recruiter
4 x Druid of the Cowl
2 x Deathcap Cultivator
2 x Nature's Way
1 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Tireless Tracker
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 x Explosive Vegetation
1 x Nissa, Vital Force
1 x Verdurous Gearhulk
2 x Monstrous Onslaught
2 x Rishkar's Expertise
1 x Woodland Bellower
2 x Gaea's Revenge
2 x Plated Crusher
1 x Aetherwind Basker
23 x Forest


I've added in the Duskwatch Recruiter since the synergy is too high not to include. I added in the Woodland Bellower package which again is just too much value to ignore. Grabbing Sylvan Advocate which also works with Nissa, Vital Force +1. There's just too many meta problems not to have access to at least one Reclamation Sage. Grab Tireless Tracker when you're flooded or have excess ramp spells in hand or even Duskwatch Recruiter as a mana sink for drawing more gas. I included Nissa, Vastwood Seer for the land grab and the potential early flips into a PW that will create advantage. Based on sequencing, the two Nissa's do work quite well together too. Timmy says that Verdurous Gearhulk just needs to be in the deck too. I've only been testing for a while but these changes feel right in the deck shell.

I believe my cuts were (I'm too lazy to compare differences now :D):

-2 Blossoming Defense
I didn't like making this cut but many of the deck threats already have some protection. That and I believe the card changes made will add enough value back into the deck to offset this choice. The one I worry about more now is Aetherwind Basker which is just a fun/bonkers/Timmy card. Still, Vital Force has the chance to act as our Greenwarden of Murasa when there are removal concerns.

-1 Forest
The deck had a good blend of mana dorks and mana acceleration already. Adding in Duskwatch and Nissa Vastwood further improves that package and has felt fine with the cut.

-1 Nature's Way
This could also be changed for -1x Monstrous Onslaught and maybe should. Monstrous is more of a blow out card which is probably why it's fine at one copy but the inner Timmy in me won't make the cut. Still, I'm fine with 1 less removal spell for adding in more value plays.

-1 Arborback Stomper
Yet another upsetting cut. The deck actually needs all 3 copies in my opinion. Having some hp gain in a green stompy is always a recipe for success for so many reasons and may need to be revisited.

-2 Bristling Hydra
This card is fine and works but I think some of the other cards that have been added out-value this choice.



I have to say kudos for the brew Nighthawk. Barney can back me up when I say this, these deck's are my favorite. I knew I was going to brew something with Rishkar's Expertise and Primal Bellow just because of DotP 2012? 2013? 2014? where I had built a deck with Hunter's Prowess and Primal Bellow. It appears you beat me to it! ;)


elk

edit - there's something to be said for Walking Ballista too. I like keeping it all :g: though :D
Changed incorrect quantity listed for deathcap cultivator and druid of the cowl

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Last edited by elk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:20 pm 
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-2 Pilgrimage, +1 Cowl, +1 Ballista. You might - Basker for other Ballista, I leave that call up to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Something is off. I'll have to look. I had all the cowl's so I'm off on another qty. Or I'm missing the forth cowl and didn't notice.

Oh and regarding the Basket...no way! Too much Timmy, too much fun!!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:10 pm 
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There it is. I had too many deathcap cultivators. We can only have 2 due to rarity and thats where the missing cowl went. I will edit the post accordingly.


Sorry bout that. I have a tough time transferring decks from in game to post.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Yeah, my list is actually pretty close to yours now Elk, duskwatch has been solid for me, either digs you for gas or makes your stuff cheaper both of which are great, nothing is more upsetting then bottoming 2 bellow's + rishkars though haha,(Kel, it's kind of the good part of evo leap in hear without some of the drawbacks)

To the people for the verderous gearhulk swap i'm behind that, going plated crusher into rishkar's putting a gearhulk onto the battlefield and all the counters going onto the crusher is impossible to beat most of the time, although if you're trying bellower + gearhulk ect cutting the blossoming does get a lot worse as these guys don't have protection.

@GoA i tried the ballista swap for the pilgrimages and it's still close for me, some games i've got stuck on land or not been explosive enough and others ballista would've taken over a game quickly (had one where i went double bellow, and then used all the counters to clear his blockers out the way for the win) gonna keep messing around and see what i need more.

@Magister i can't get behind dropping advocate, the card is just an auto include in these decks alongside tracker, they're creatures you play early that can get big just by doing what this deck wants to do.

The more i've played with nature's way the less impressed i've been, honestly i think this is the weaker card in the deck and i might come around to cutting them and relying completely on the monstrous onslaught's which have been the opposite, these are absolute all stars from my experience in here and can both save and win you the game where no other card in mono green could.

Haven't updated the OP yet as like i said i'm still testing but honestly i built this deck more as a "fun" deck but i think it might accidentally be good haha

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:41 pm 
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To the people for the verderous gearhulk swap i'm behind that, going plated crusher into rishkar's putting a gearhulk onto the battlefield and all the counters going onto the crusher is impossible to beat most of the time, although if you're trying bellower + gearhulk ect cutting the blossoming does get a lot worse as these guys don't have protection.

Regarding Blossoming - my reasoning was that there's just a lot of card advantage and value going on. Both those cards - Bellower & Gearhulk. They're so flexible depending on the situation you're in (huge value) and then potentially leave value in play after they eat removal. Same with several of the other changes (cast Duskwatch T5 with mana for activation/ Nissa Vastwood for a land). You're trying to out value their plays which include their removal and rely on finding your threats they can't remove. Or more to the point, I'm fine with those eating removal cause I know I'm still ahead/ going to win anyway ;).

but honestly i built this deck more as a "fun" deck but i think it might accidentally be good haha

Green Stompy is a great thing. There is always a deck for it (it's about time someone found it ;)) and can put together some fun/great wins. I always enjoy these ones. Nice find!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Oh yeah, it might still be worth cutting them, i was just saying they do get better the more unprotected creatures we play, although right now i've decided to test out nuking the natures ways instead and see if i miss them as it's kind of the same thing with them getting worse with the non hexproof stuff

Honestly just give me pelakka wurm/genesis hydra and i'm in heaven right now haha

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:54 am 
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I was considering Walking Ballista for nature's way. It still counts as a form of removal.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:48 am 
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I saw someone post about aggro vehicles being a real problem. You could always pull the Nature's way and add in a few copies of Plummet. I doubt this deck gets beat by any ground game outside of maybe snake.dec. I know it's another situational card but it seems like it would do well helping solve the issue and has wider application than rec sage. There are more than just looter scooters that go bump in the night.
Spoiler


This is another build I plan on taking for a spin eventually. All my failed Dimir artifact decks had me so busy the last week I haven't had time to build or tinker with decks that look sweet like this one.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:44 am 
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yeah, Elk used to be all about the green stompy. I remember there being a big interest way back in the day for the best one and Elk's was a monster.

It would be cool to play it in today's meta cuz people probably aren't ready for combat pumps. Blossoming Defense has allowed them to make a fun comeback and lots of fun can be had with them (for removal, for saving a creature from removal, for winning a game unexpectedly, but mostly for giving opponents fits when he is trying to decide how to block... in a game with a VERY short time-limit to do so, that's a good thing)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:01 pm 
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yeah, Elk used to be all about the green stompy. I remember there being a big interest way back in the day for the best one and Elk's was a monster.

A green monster!

So based on the list I posted, I swapped out the 2 Nature's Way for 2 Walking Ballista and it seems like a good swap. It's been easy to cast Ballista for 3 or 4 and becomes another good mana sink if it stays on the board.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:50 pm 
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duskwatch has been solid for me, either digs you for gas or makes your stuff cheaper both of which are great. (Kel, it's kind of the good part of evo leap in hear without some of the drawbacks)

Yes I can see Duskwatch being a viable alternative to Evo Leap in this particular deck. It has its own slight drawback of being a creature that can be removed, whereas a 2 mana enchantment is safer and rarely has removal spent on it. But overall it's a viable swap.

I saw someone post about aggro vehicles being a real problem. You could always pull the Nature's way and add in a few copies of Plummet. I doubt this deck gets beat by any ground game outside of maybe snake.dec. I know it's another situational card but it seems like it would do well helping solve the issue and has wider application than rec sage. There are more than just looter scooters that go bump in the night.


A very underrated card for dealing with fliers in mono green is Vines of the Recluse. The untap + Reach is always completely unexpected.. and quite powerful for 1 mana. Unlike Plummet, it's not dead in hand if they have no fliers, as you can surprise ground attackers with it too. Being a fairly small pump is usually irrelevant in a deck full of fatties. It's better than Blossoming Defense in a deck where most of the bombs already have protection, and a huge weakness to fliers in a meta where that's relevant.


Not trying to be a dick but there's a lot of credit being given here where it isn't necessarily due. Mono green has already been done and made viable since Origins.
I wouldn't mind the NGA veteran circle-jerking if a bit of thanks or credit was also given to newer members where it's due.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Kel No one is claiming I invented the wheel, sure mono-green has been "viable" since origins but Aether revolt brought a lot of new toys to the field in the form of Riskar's expertise, monstrous onslaught, druid ect that has actually bumped it up from "viable" to "actually pretty decent." I also went back 3 pages and saw no posts about mono green so i don't know where you're getting the idea that new players aren't getting credit.

Anyway I've played a bunch more games and Ballista has won me over, It's not the most exciting thing in the deck but the versatility really sells it to me (the pinging ability also is funny with monstrous onslaught ) and even if it's not that big the turn it comes out the turn after it definitely will be haha.

A lot of people have been suggesting different vehicle/flying hate and granted so far i've only tested out rec sage in here but i ended up cutting them as i felt it was just fighting a losing battle, even with the games i drew 2 sages the vehicle matchup was still at best like 60-40 to them and i felt it diluted the deck too much, a lot of our cards are already so situational adding more seems dangerous. Might be wrong though it's just so rough trying to find the room, although i think if i were to run any i'd probably lean towards rec sage over plummet or ornamental courage, god i wish we could have a sideboard haha

Also i haven't missed nature's way at all really, especially since the third monsterous onslaught most of the time i just build up to a big one of them, or if i don't have it riskar's into it, so i think going down to 0 copies of it might be the right choice

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