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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Was thinking about cards that i haven't messed around with this season and aetherwind basker was top of the list, the combo with primal bellow seemed too good to pass up and thus this list was chalked up, i don't think it's perfect but the deck has legs imo:

1 drops
3xPrimal Bellow - Best card in the deck hands down, you want to see all 3 every game just allows you to win from nowhere
2x Blossoming defense While a lot of our guys have protection, not all do, allows your mana rampers to dodge removal and potentially blow someone out in combat as well

2 drops
4x Druid of the cowl - Ramping into a fatty for turn 4 is huge, all the best draws for this deck involve these little guys
2x deathcap cultivator - see above
2x Duskwatch recruiter - updated, turns out natures way was meh
2x sylvan advocate good early, late can become a 4/5 by turn 4 with a veggies

3 drops
2x tireless tracker card advantage, can become a game ender by itself, not much else needs to be said
2x Nissa's pilgrimage We focus on vegetation for this deck but a couple extra ramp spells don't hurt, going from 3-5 isn't bad in this deck

4 drops
4x Explosive vegetation Bread and butter of the deck, gets us to our fatties, pumps up bellow and advocate, tireless tracker ect ect
2x Bristling Hydra used to be Arborback stompers, but swapped them out as being one cheaper for no lifegain and trading trample for hexproof seemed worth it and testing has proved this.
5 drops
1x Verderous gearhulk 5 mana 8/8 trample with upside not much else needs to be said
3x Monstrous onslaught1 sided board wipe in green that avoids them killing it in response, combine will bellow to nuke the entire field no matter what they have out!

6+ drops
2x rishkar's expertise The nuts in this deck, enjoy drawing a million cards, allows you to combo kill cause it'll usually hit at least 2 combat spells, a list of good things to hit: Bellow, stomper, onslaught, all for different situations.
2x Gaea's revenge **** control, and **** thinking you're safe when i slam this + bellow to smack you for 16 out of nowhere! we can give it trample and it works really well with onslaught as a bonus as the extra power works better with most of our spells
2x Plated crusher big removal dodging fattie #2, slightly more defensive but still does the job while having the significant bonus of trample
1x Aetherwind basker the mana elves make this guy's ability "kill him the turn he comes down or die" blossoming can help protect him from that and it punches through a board stall like no other card

22x forest (a mana base honed through hours of research, i don't think any of the colourless lands are worth using as it weakens bellow)
2x rogue's passege
Highlights so far have been a 26/26 basker by turn 6 (even cast a expertise somewhere in there!) but like i said this is very much a first build, thoughts?

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Last edited by NightHawk233 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:50 pm 
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Is Basker better than Eldrazi Pig?

Answer: No, and neither of them are better than Ulamog who you are not running for some random reason.

Also, your 4-drop spot is barren, and From Beyond is begging you to play it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:28 am 
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Of course his 4 spot is barren.. he's trying to spend turn 3 ramping with one of his six ramp spells. He's also trying to end the game before he gets to 10 mana, as he doesn't have the control cards or the lifegain cards to get to 10 mana.. which he would need to survive in this meta IF his goal was to get to 10 mana. Ulamog completely warps what he's trying to do.. even more so when you jam in stuff like From Beyond.

@Nighthawk: I think you can cut one Plated Crusher for Vital Force. In my experience with ramp this season, Crusher ended up being the worst card in the deck a lot of the time.. sat in my hand while I played other cards.. in both the Gruul and Selesnya versions. Bristling Hydra has performed very well for me too.. it's a really great stabilizer on turn 3 vs aggro.. and a 5 card Rishkar's Expertise is still pretty solid. You might find yourself wanting a stabilizer like that vs Vehicles.. especially if you're not doing anything besides putting a mana dork on the field before turn 4.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:30 am 
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@vert Basker is wayyyyy better then the pig in this deck, at most we'll probably have like 3-4 creatures out but most of the time will have to emerge out to cast it, basker is still great even if we don't have much of a board going on.
Ulamog was in the deck for a while but i eventually decided on leaving him out for the reasons Beast said, this deck is planning on killing a couple turns earlier then 10 mana and a few games i was stuck on 7-9 lands and couldn't cast him, and then the few games where i did cast him any other generic bomb would've done the trick at that point. I may be wrong and just had some weird games, if i ever start to miss him though he'll find his way back in here for sure though.

@beast I can get behind the nissa swap, kinda acts like a mini Gaia's revenge with the haste and plated crusher is the weakest bomb, i was already tempted to swap one out and was tempted to go for Greenwarden as it can help you grind or can help the combo by going bellow -> Greenwarden getting back bellow -> bellow but i think it's time is over as it's too low impact and nissa will probably do the trick.
Hydra's a good idea it's probably competing with Arborback stomper for the stabiliser vs aggro role do you think it's better here? The lack of trample is an issue but it can come out a turn earlier which might make up for the lack of lifegain but either way it's pretty close haha

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:32 am 
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Blissgirl9 wrote:
Of course his 4 spot is barren.. he's trying to spend turn 3 ramping with one of his six ramp spells. He's also trying to end the game before he gets to 10 mana, as he doesn't have the control cards or the lifegain cards to get to 10 mana.. which he would need to survive in this meta IF his goal was to get to 10 mana. Ulamog completely warps what he's trying to do.. even more so when you jam in stuff like From Beyond.

@Nighthawk: I think you can cut one Plated Crusher for Vital Force. In my experience with ramp this season, Crusher ended up being the worst card in the deck a lot of the time.. sat in my hand while I played other cards.. in both the Gruul and Selesnya versions. Bristling Hydra has performed very well for me too.. it's a really great stabilizer on turn 3 vs aggro.. and a 5 card Rishkar's Expertise is still pretty solid. You might find yourself wanting a stabilizer like that vs Vehicles.. especially if you're not doing anything besides putting a mana dork on the field before turn 4.


Counting on always having Explosive for turn 3 is way too risky. You need more reliable things to ramp into at 4 mana.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Yeah i see your point, although Tireless tracker is kind of a psudo 4 drop in a way as you're never happy playing him out turn 3, i agree that more 4 drops make sense but i'm leaning more towards the bristling hydra plan over tracker

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Was thinking about cards that i haven't messed around with this season and aetherwind basker was top of the list, the combo with primal bellow seemed too good to pass up and thus this list was chalked up, i don't think it's perfect but the deck has legs imo:

1 drops
3xPrimal Bellow - Best card in the deck hands down, you want to see all 3 every game just allows you to win from nowhere
2x Blossoming defense While a lot of our guys have protection, not all do, allows your mana rampers to dodge removal and potentially blow someone out in combat as well

2 drops
4x Druid of the cowl - Ramping into a fatty for turn 4 is huge, all the best draws for this deck involve these little guys
2x deathcap cultivator - see above
3x Nature's way great removal spell in this deck, giving trample to stuff like a big tracker/revenge is huge and vigilance allows us to race
2x sylvan advocate good early, late can become a 4/5 by turn 4 with a veggies

3 drops
2x tireless tracker card advantage, can become a game ender by itself, not much else needs to be said
2x Nissa's pilgrimage We focus on vegetation for this deck but a couple extra ramp spells don't hurt, going from 3-5 isn't bad in this deck

4 drops
4x Explosive vegetation Bread and butter of the deck, gets us to our fatties, pumps up bellow and advocate, tireless tracker ect ect

5 drops
3x Arborback stomper While it's no Pellaka wurm, it still does the job of being a trample fattie while helping keep us alive, great with the expertise as well
2x Monstrous onslaught1 sided board wipe in green that avoids them killing it in response, combine will bellow to nuke the entire field no matter what they have out!

6+ drops
2x rishkar's expertise The nuts in this deck, enjoy drawing a million cards, allows you to combo kill cause it'll usually hit at least 2 combat spells, a list of good things to hit: Bellow, stomper, onslaught, all for different situations.
2x Gaea's revenge **** control, and **** thinking you're safe when i slam this + bellow to smack you for 16 out of nowhere! we can give it trample and it works really well with onslaught as a bonus as the extra power works better with most of our spells
2x Plated crusher big removal dodging fattie #2, slightly more defensive but still does the job while having the significant bonus of trample
1x Aetherwind basker the mana elves make this guy's ability "kill him the turn he comes down or die" blossoming can help protect him from that and it punches through a board stall like no other card

24x forest (a mana base honed through hours of research, i don't think any of the colourless lands are worth using as it weakens bellow)

Highlights so far have been a 26/26 basker by turn 6 (even cast a expertise somewhere in there!) but like i said this is very much a first build, thoughts?


I'm not a fan of Gaea's Revenge. 8/5 is a crummy stat distribution that makes it fragile to weenie group blocking. The lack of trample makes the 8 haste attack worthless unless you're playing it onto an open board. I'd sub them for more Plated Crushers. They have better stats, trample and are still difficult to remove.

Divinevert will disagree here.. but with 6 dorks I don't think you need that many ramp spells if you're curving out at 6-7cmc. I know you want to hit them reliably, but they're such a dead draw later on.
If you decided to include Ulamog (which I would recommend), and/or a landfall engine, I would keep all 6 ramp spells. As it stands, 4-5 might suffice.

I know you want Forests for maximum Bellow pump, but 20 is plenty. There's no reason not to run 2x Rogue's Passage. It is a serious wincon and stalemate breaker in this deck, especially combo'd with Primal Bellow. I would also throw in 2x Foundry of the Consuls. Having access to some chump blockers in the air helps to cover one of this deck's biggest weaknesses. I also like to run Ulvenwald Hydra, as his Reach helps cover fliers and he fetches Rogue's Passage.

I played green fatties almost exclusively for a couple of expansions, and I lost count of how many games Passage won me.

One of the other main weaknesses of these decks is running out of cards. I find an Evolutionary Leap helps keep your hand stocked quite nicely. Good way to turn your dorks into fatties once you no longer need them.. or sac something that's being targeted with removal.

-1 Gaea (-2 if you want Ulvenwald Hydra or Ulamog)
-1 Ramp spell
-4 Forest
+1 Plated Crusher
+1 Evo Leap
+2 Rogue's Passage
+2 Foundry of the Consuls

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:37 pm 
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@Kel To be honest i think the crusher - Revenge decision is almost 6 and two threes, some situations i've been way happier with revenge and sometimes the latter, depending on whether haste or trample is more important at the time, i think it comes down to preference at the end and wouldn't laugh at any combination of the two.

About the land bit i have to disagree with you on the colourless lands, our big creatures generally have trample already meaning rogue's passage isn't at it's best (along with being a nonbo with revenge, although you said your list runs crushers over them so it's probably better there) It probably wouldn't hurt to run them for as you said 20 green is still a lot, but i've found even drawing one or two can hurt the deck a bit sometimes, especially early when you use them defensively and can turn a good block into a trade Like you said though with these lands the hydra does become a way better option but right now i'm just not on board with them (although will be doing some more testing where i'll throw some in)

@zz I used to run 2 rec sage in an earlier build but i found that the deck is already running so many situational cards like the pump spells and the removal that adding more to the mix was making the deck less consistent - if the opponent isn't on vehicles having even more dead cards can be brutal, i just think it's a concession this kind of deck has to make.
Agree with you on Nissa and greenwarden though, a crusher has already been cut for Nissa (Kel - look i like revenge better then it at the minute ok!) and am seeing if i can find room for greenwarden or bellower somewhere, although i don't think cutting ramp is the answer.

As an added bonus i'd like to share the transcript of this game i had with this deck vs R/W vehicles just before:

Him - turn 2, veteran motorist, turn 3 Depala, turn 4 Sram's expertise putting Thalia into play

Me - turn 2 Druid, turn 3 vegetation, turn 4 Blossoming defence, Primal bellow, monstrous onslaught for 9 wiping his entire field for the instant rage quit

...And that's why i'd never go down to one onslaught haha

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:06 am 
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As far as affecting the amount of pump you get that might turn an early block into a trade.. Usually you should be holding Bellows for lethal unless you're at risk of being overrun on the board. Bellow is a surprise game-winner and it's most likely a waste to play one removing an early creature.

Hard to rationalise not including 2 utility lands that can and will win you games, in a deck where hitting colours is a non-issue.
Fair enough if you don't want the Foundries (or any of the other suggestions), but going 22 Forest and 2 Passage is practically mandatory imo.

Yes, Trample is one thing.. but being able to deal lethal damage with an unblockable mana dork combo'd with Bellow is another. In other words, having trample is one way to win and is no reason to deprive yourself of an additional wincon, if it doesn't hurt your mana base in any tangible way. Bellow pumps are usually overkill and pumping for one less shouldn't hurt you (if you're saving them as you should be).

At least try it :sweat:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:43 am 
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Tried the deck myself and monstrous onslaught works. Its like a rogue's passage that kills everything in its wake!

can benefit from 1 evolutionary leap, ulvenwald hydra, 1 rogue's passage. Maybe a bristling hydra for early aggression. Can drop 2 gaea's revenge and 1 plated crusher


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:19 am 
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If Monstrous Onslaught could go to the face or was an instant I would like it but otherwise its a bit poo.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:41 pm 
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butete09 wrote:
can benefit from 1 evolutionary leap, ulvenwald hydra, 1 rogue's passage. Maybe a bristling hydra for early aggression. Can drop 2 gaea's revenge and 1 plated crusher


This dude knows what's up :party:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:40 am 
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Made the deck after watching your video and played 5 games. Ton of fun! Everyone who suggests cutting Gaea's Revenge is out of their mind. The deck is supposed to be explosive and difficult to interact with.. and Gaea is both of those things. Is Ulvenwald Hydra explosive or difficult to interact with? No. Monstrous Onslaught works because of all the hexproof in the deck, and being easier to cast bc of Rishkar's. Really like it Nighthawk.. scratches the Timmy itch big-time.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Yeah i've been doing a ton of testing that built up to that vid with some of the cards people have suggested in here, here's a couple of thoughts:

bristling hydra - Great suggestion, does the same job as arborback except better and can even do funny things with the lizard with the energy it makes!

Revenge > Crusher - Although this is still close i'm much happier with revenge most of the time, the haste and extra power seems worth it, especially as this deck runs plenty of ways to abuse that extra power and remove blockers out of the way

ulvenwald Hydra - Not bad by any means, just missing some important ingredients that make it weaker then our other bombs imo (No trample, no protection) Yes you can fetch up a rogues passage to give it evasion but that's telegraphed and they still have their entire turn to deal with it and if you sink in the mana to make it unblockable and they kill it in response you usually miss out on playing a second bomb that turn which is huge

Evo leap - I just found this awful here, never want to play it turn 2 and early-mid game it was nearly impossible to keep mana up to sacrifice our elves if they tried to kill them, late game it's usually irrelevant as if the deck makes it that far we've probably already resolved a bomb or two already and that's enough to close things out. Maybe there's a tokeny version of this deck with cultivator of blades ect but right now i don't think it belongs here

Glad you enjoyed beast, it's becoming one of my more fun decks to just chill with on the ladder, nothing beats a huge riskar's expertise haha

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:01 am 
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I put two Ballistas in and I don't want to go back. They often come down as 3/3s or bigger and they grow being the mana sinks they are. They are just great in a ramp deck. Only hurts, if you have to cast them for 2.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Yeah, it needs Ballistas or Rec Sages on some level. It's way too easy to get wrecked by vehicles, especially since roflcopter flies. Otherwise it's been pretty fun. I think I'll cut Pilgrimages. I've never been happy to see them. Extra lands in my hand don't help much, I've usually already got some there, plus I've got 10 other ramp cards and I'm not even ramping above 7. I'll probably try 1 of each and see which I like better, then I may commit to two of that one. Probably be Ballista for the ability to possibly burn opponent out, but Sage might surprise me.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:37 am 
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Most people on NGA just seem to be posting their decks to be affirmed on how perfect it is, or at best only selectively hear the bits of advice they were already inclined to agree with.
It's a bit disheartening giving out solid advice that often falls on deaf ears.

As I said some of it was optional/preference, but -1 ramp +1 anything is a given, as is the -forest +passage (especially if you're still favouring Gaea's over trample).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:38 am 
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Passage can't target Gaea though..

Regarding your other comment.. when people give feedback, the OP isn't wrong for countering with the logic they used to come to their conclusion. It's a back and forth.. that's how conversations work. What the OP is hoping is that somebody suggests something they haven't thought of/tried.. if the suggestions have been tested, then they explain why it was disregarded.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:34 am 
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Blissgirl9 wrote:
Passage can't target Gaea though..

Regarding your other comment.. when people give feedback, the OP isn't wrong for countering with the logic they used to come to their conclusion. It's a back and forth.. that's how conversations work. What the OP is hoping is that somebody suggests something they haven't thought of/tried.. if the suggestions have been tested, then they explain why it was disregarded.


Fair enough RE Passage. Although I did give reasons why there's better options than Gaea. Being a nonbo with game-winning evasion is one more reason.

It's not conducive to wanting to continue a back and forth when it's apparent they aren't really listening.

Honestly a better deck entirely is splashing red for Chandra's Ignition off Rishkar's anyway. But that won't be heeded either.
If we're here to maintain a theme instead of building the strongest deck possible, that maybe changes things a little.

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