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 Post subject: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Kaladesh came with a bunch of much needed 2 drops for the thopter deck from orgins. Had to splash black though to make use of Scrapheap Scrounger 's ability.
After a bunch of brewing and trying out builds this is the first deck of mine that is fun to play and getting me great results.

Update 3: So aggro is suddenly gone from the higher ranks, instead we got lots of mardu, naya and esper controll decks.
2x Sky Skiff are in, felt a little low on artefacts, they survive sweepers and work really well with thopter spy network. Not an amazing card but good enough and pretty much exactly what the deck needed. Syndicate Trafficker had to make room for it.
I am also trying out Pia Nalaar over the Whirler Virtuoso.
Lastly Smoldering Marsh went out for Wandering Fumarole. Sometimes didn't hit double-U for our 4 drops. It provides red and blue, but does bring us up to 6 taplands.

Seems to be getting close to the finalised list.
I started to track my score. The deck is 12/4 currently, all at high ranks obviously.

Creature(22)
3x Inventor's Apprentice
2x Scrapheap Scrounger
3x Contraband Kingpin
3x Chief of the Foundry
3x Thopter Engineer
2x Pia Nalaar
1x Whirler Virtuoso
3x Whirler Rogue
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar

Instant(6)
3x Harnessed Lightning
3x Unlicensed Disintegration

Enchantment(2)
2x Thopter Spy Network

Planeswalker(1)
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

Artifact(5)
2x Smuggler's Copter
2x Sky Skiff
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

Land(24)
2x Island
2x Wandering Fumarole
1x Swamp
6x Mountain
2x Dragonskull Summit
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Sulfur Falls
3x Aether Hub
4x Evolving Wilds

The manabase may need a bit of work. I haven't had issues thanks to aether Aether Hub but would rather use the spare energy on other stuff if possible.

older list:
Spoiler

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Last edited by Pythe on Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:37 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:07 pm 
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Hmmm...mine was slightly different.

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Reckless Fireweaver
3 x Contraband Kingpin
2 x Underhanded Designs
3 x Weaponcraft Enthusiast
3 x Thopter Engineer
3 x Flayer Drone
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Filigree Familiar
2 x Fevered Visions
3 x Unlicensed Disintegration
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 x Saheeli Rai
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar

23 x Land

3 x Island
3 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacombs
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Inventor's Fair
2 x Foundry of the Consuls


See, mine is pretty much a nickel-and-dime burn deck disguised as Thopters. I couldn't really care less about the actual Thopters, they're just artefact/colourless things coming into play to trigger other things. Really, Chief could probably just be face burn and improve the deck and edge it more towards combo. I'd been meaning to post this anyhow, thanks for the reminder.

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Spoiler


yeah, you are taking a verry different aproach, I did try something simular without blue but that didn't go anywhere for me. Contraband Kingpin may be worth testing, even if he is mostly defensive.

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:29 pm 
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I haven't tested yet but I liked trafficker in the list. By removing it and reducing disintegration, there's very little reason to stay in black (scrapheap is still good even if you can't use the ability). It may be more consistent for the mana to drop it (the list I've been testing is almost exactly the same in u/r).


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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:28 pm 
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Have you guys found that doing next to nothing for turn 1 and 2 allows you to play Fevered Visions on turn 3? That's a whole lot of do nothing in this meta. This obviously isn't directed at Pythe since his deck is pretty fast..

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:21 am 
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Have you guys found that doing next to nothing for turn 1 and 2 allows you to play Fevered Visions on turn 3? That's a whole lot of do nothing in this meta. This obviously isn't directed at Pythe since his deck is pretty fast..


T2 Kingpin or have Harnessed Lighting on T2 up then T3 whatever? How much damage can actually happen in two turns? Image

My deck isn't particularly aggro since we can chump block all day. If you're that worried about it then add in Filigree Familiar; I've been hosing aggro quite a bit. Image

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:48 am 
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This "do nothing" mentality I keep hearing about from Xbox players next to never applies on Steam. Watching Gemini and CoGo's streams, I can tell you there's a lot more control decks and next to no midrange so far on Steam that I've witnessed. There's very little on turn 2-3 that hits 4 toughness without being pumped somehow, so Harnessed Lightning/Blessed Alliance/Fragmentize (on your own turn if they play a Copter/Freighter) is usual par the course.

That said, I would ditch Combustible GH and Ob Nix is ZZ's list for 2 x Fiery Impulse.

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:36 am 
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It's funny everyone immediately posts their own list without so much as commenting Pythes.

GJ Pythe ! Like the list alot ! It's 59 cards though :p

Here are my musings:

I think era of innovation is great in here, but as a 3 off I'm a bit worried of leaving the 2 drop zone too understaffed, this is after all, still an aggroish deck :

I went -1 era of innovation +1 Sky Skiff. Whilst not as good as the copter, this little guy can keep pushing damage in once your ground crew can't get through anymore.

Thanks to the potential card advantage era of innovation provides lategame (you can just bank energy then draw/make mass thopters with Whirler Virtuoso) I feel Thopter Spy Network is less necessary, since part of its effect (the carddraw) is already taken care of lower on the curve.
The board-affecting component can be filled in by Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Saheeli Rai, bot work fine in this deck imo, and they are often harder to remove in a meta that probably will run quite some enchant/artifact hate but for long. Since the list was 59 cards I cut 1 Spy Network for Chandra, and added Saheeli.

Confiscation Coup is such an incredible card in my mind, but Control Magic was printed before Planeswalkers existed :( Would be very easy to replace this by another Sky Skiff. wayyyyyy lower celing, but higher floor. Also, 5 mana is alot, and you run only 24 land with some manasinks already present and 7 4 drops.


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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:53 am 
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It's funny everyone immediately posts their own list without so much as commenting...


:smirk:

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:58 am 
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What ? I said it was funny ! Didn't say I dissaproved :angel: !


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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:58 am 
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@Zz: I'm not talking about just turn 2.. I'm more talking about turn 3. You can get away with not doing much on turn 1 and 2.. sure.. but can you then afford to take turn 3 off to play Fevered Visions? That's what I was wondering. I love the card.. but i didn't include it bc I didn't want hands with it, Thopter Spy Network, Padeem, Smugglers Copter, etc. You know.. too much draw and not enough board type hands.

@Bounce: You know CGB is married right? His wife is gonna fly to England and eviscerate you of she finds out how often you publicly fellate her husband :) I'm seeing about 50% aggro on Xbox personally.. Gruul, mono white, Selesnya, etc. Love the new avatar.. and the red hulk bit was fabulous.

I wish I had something to add to the discussion about Pythe's deck.. but it's so different from what I've played. Even more reason to try it then!

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:23 am 
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@Zz: I'm not talking about just turn 2.. I'm more talking about turn 3. You can get away with not doing much on turn 1 and 2.. sure.. but can you then afford to take turn 3 off to play Fevered Visions? That's what I was wondering. I love the card.. but i didn't include it bc I didn't want hands with it, Thopter Spy Network, Padeem, Smugglers Copter, etc. You know.. too much draw and not enough board type hands.

@Bounce: You know CGB is married right? His wife is gonna fly to England and eviscerate you of she finds out how often you publicly fellate her husband :) I'm seeing about 50% aggro on Xbox personally.. Gruul, mono white, Selesnya, etc. Love the new avatar.. and the red hulk bit was fabulous.

I wish I had something to add to the discussion about Pythe's deck.. but it's so different from what I've played. Even more reason to try it then!


Best response to me in a while! :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:35 am 
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It's funny everyone immediately posts their own list without so much as commenting Pythes.

GJ Pythe ! Like the list alot ! It's 59 cards though :p

Here are my musings:

I think era of innovation is great in here, but as a 3 off I'm a bit worried of leaving the 2 drop zone too understaffed, this is after all, still an aggroish deck :

I went -1 era of innovation +1 Sky Skiff. Whilst not as good as the copter, this little guy can keep pushing damage in once your ground crew can't get through anymore.

Thanks to the potential card advantage era of innovation provides lategame (you can just bank energy then draw/make mass thopters with Whirler Virtuoso) I feel Thopter Spy Network is less necessary, since part of its effect (the carddraw) is already taken care of lower on the curve.
The board-affecting component can be filled in by Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Saheeli Rai, bot work fine in this deck imo, and they are often harder to remove in a meta that probably will run quite some enchant/artifact hate but for long. Since the list was 59 cards I cut 1 Spy Network for Chandra, and added Saheeli.

Confiscation Coup is such an incredible card in my mind, but Control Magic was printed before Planeswalkers existed :( Would be very easy to replace this by another Sky Skiff. wayyyyyy lower celing, but higher floor. Also, 5 mana is alot, and you run only 24 land with some manasinks already present and 7 4 drops.


Must have messed up when editing, will update it to the new list i am currently playing

Era of innovation isn't a 2 drop. Unless I really have nothing else to play it comes down turn 4/5 or even later. I actually want to draw multiple of these, they combo with the virsoso.
I agree that there aren't many 2 drops in the list. I have tried out Contraband Kingpin which has been performing well. I feel like the scry wins out over the 1 damage so right now I run 3 of them over the Reckless Fireweaver.

Has sky skiff been performing for you? So far in the few times it was played against me it has been underwhelming, often doing nothing because they had too many/better vehicles out or it wasn't even worth for them to crew it, they would rather just attack/block with their creatures. If I wanted to up the 2 drops I'd much rather add the Reckless Fireweaver for now.

I did cut 1 Thopter Spy Network for more 2 drops. The card is a little slow but just sooooo good when you have the time to cast it. Usally draws a card the turn it hits play and then just goes from there. I really want to put the 2nd one back in, just getting really hard to decide on what to cut.

I didn't get to try the walkers much, beeing mythic means I rarely draw them. The few time I did Saheeli Rai felt verry weak, never getting to copy a whirler rouge or anything the like. Chandra has been amazing, in other decks though, got to ult her twice so far. 5 damage a spell wins the game verry quickly.

Confiscation Coup is on the chopping block, still didn't get a single great target for it. The one time I could steal a Combustible Gearhulk it didn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:11 am 
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I can confirm I had one game where my 2 drop couldn't swing in and I was staring at the second Era of innovation I drew instead of a land t3 which could've been a skiff :p I lost that game due to not drawing enough action :)

I do recognize the incredible value the card has with whirler virtuoso, and well, basically ANY permanent you play and maybe I'm being too harsh on it, but in generally in an agressive deck like this I don't wanna go to deep on the long term combo/ca stuff.

On skiffs:

I'm not as high on em as CGB, who ran 4 immediately. They ain't no copters. I still think they perform an adequate role as a 2 mana equipment that says : equipped creature gains flying and if it's power is 1 it gets +1/+0, equip:0, equip only once per turn <3 That's a pretty good equipment, but you wouldn't want 4 of em. 1/2 has been consistently worth a card to me though, also in non thopter decks.

Saheeli Rai seems like it could be good in theory, but she's definitely a flex slot. Chandra is not at her ABSOLUTE best here, but I think it's still pretty crazy not to run her. Her - comeback potential is meh, but her + are really good for this deck imho.


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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:07 pm 
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@Zz: I'm not talking about just turn 2.. I'm more talking about turn 3. You can get away with not doing much on turn 1 and 2.. sure.. but can you then afford to take turn 3 off to play Fevered Visions? That's what I was wondering. I love the card.. but i didn't include it bc I didn't want hands with it, Thopter Spy Network, Padeem, Smugglers Copter, etc. You know.. too much draw and not enough board type hands.


It doesn't have to be a T3 play; majority of time you can play it when you're stabilized. I will say that it is bad agaisnt Aggro since they dump their hand most of the time. It's certainly a flex spot, but currently it's doing work so I'm not complaining. :party:

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:39 pm 
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hmm, dunno if running Era of innovation is really just me beeing cute and trying to push more engery into this deck. The card has performed really well, though yeah, only in longer games. With Confiscation Coup out and if you don't want to play it to combo with whirler virtuoso takeing it out is verry resonable. That may put Syndicate Trafficker back on the map for the deck since you don't want all your spare mana to produce energy for you. Reckless Fireweaver is also still an option.

Are there videos where a good use of the sky skiff is showcased? cgb playing it?

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Quote:
Saheeli Rai seems like it could be good in theory, but she's definitely a flex slot. Chandra is not at her ABSOLUTE best here, but I think it's still pretty crazy not to run her. Her - comeback potential is meh, but her + are really good for this deck imho.


You've got that backwards. Chandra is crap in this deck (and pretty much crap overall afaic) while Saheeli is a monster in this archetype of deck and many others. Cloning a creature to generate more energy and/or thopters is huge, being able to scry is always welcome and her ult pretty much always results in crazy momentum swings. Meanwhile Chandra is wasting 4 mana you could have spent on a much more useful card.


Also why are people playing Grixis and not even using some of the best stuff available to them in black?

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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Hey since you like to post words without constructing the semblance of an argument, I'll be brief, let's all do it !

Try this on for size :

You. Are. Full. Of. It.

And why is everyone in this thread besides OP slapping their own phallus on the table and/or asking why you splash black on +- 11 sources and not running DA BEST CARDZ ?

Unlike alot of **** that's been posted in the last week, this actually is a good list to discuss, so put up, or .... well just add to the nonsense that is the internet I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: [KLD]Grixis Thopter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Because we all thought to try something like this and it's spam if we all make a different thread for it, so here is where it goes.

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