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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:31 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:50 am 
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He wants to make a 20/20 Lumbering falls and wants 4 dispel to protect him during Part the Waterveil? It would explain the Prism Array to tap down opponent dudes.
No idea what I have no idea what's going on here. Kiora is a rampspell? I dunno. Quite the dec.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:22 pm 
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So much durdling...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:24 pm 
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So much durdling...


Stop watching Hakeem then...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:47 am 
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I was kinda excited since I was working myself on a converge control deck, and figured i'd try your neat idea out. I love crazy decks.

g1 : vs Bant mill. Slap T3 tutelage and draw lots of cards, he plays disciple of the ring, i have nothing to counter it. He plays displacement wave next turn; GG.

g2: vs Nephilim I dunno what: Keep a hand of jace, awry, 3 land, a shrivel and 1 coil. I'm on the play and dude played a catacomb; I figured 'oh well noone's playing reave soul right now , and I have a coil for whatever slips past awry if it's a real threat '. Slap Jace, dude drops a mountain, twinbolts it. T3 I have no play, so just play land; he ramps. T4 acid moss, forced to shrivel, I draw a telling time; He untaps plays ob nixilis, I tell time, find no counter. GG.

g3: vs allies Keep 2x hinterland hardbor, 1 lumbering falls, shrivel, Tutelage, Inspiration after being **** by the mulligans. Counter some ****, get a tutelage down. Turns out he's a total beginner since he tries to disregard my lumbering falls. Drawn no red for radiant flames when I do find it. GG.

g4: vs Gruul ramp. Got the right mix, very lucky he didn't play Revenge, since again this deck just dies to it. Got to grind the game out since all my tutelages were on the bottom of the deck + sower exiled one; Prism array did WORK. Inspiration him for the win with 4 cards left in my own deck.

g5: vs Simic Ramp/control: Mulligan horrors again, end up with 3 different lands, 2 coils and a Spectrum. Keep I guess. Opponent plays a Blisterpod, Ramps on T3; plays kiora on T4, mosses me T5. Drew nothing relevant.


1/4 stopped right there. Unplayable jank imo.

Now it might be my fault, not playing the game correctly, but did you look at the curve of that thing? You got like 14 4 drops+, no fetch, and no way to get back when you are behind besides hoping to speedmill. Didn't do any math, but the amount of hands you get with this deck that do absolutely nothing relevant before T3/4 must be astronomical.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:53 am 
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Do you write this stuff down after every game? I can barely recap my most recent game.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:57 am 
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Gegliosch wrote:
Do you write this stuff down after every game? I can barely recap my most recent game.


He usually puts a "Reserved" post up before playing and then writes as he goes I think? I've done it before when people have wanted me to test a deck.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:08 am 
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Interesting deck, looks very susceptible to colour screw, though. I'm not sure what Dispel does here, I'd probably replace it with Scatter to the Winds and Angelic Edict. Animist's Awakening is not very reliable unless you wanna spend a lot of mana to get even more lands than you already have. I'd probably only play that card in a deck with Scryfish. Telling Time does the same but you need 4 mana for that.

I'd also feel a little uncomfortable against aggro without early blockers. You basically get Radiant Flames or die.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:14 am 
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I still don't get the obsession with 5 color durdle when Woodland Wanderer and Skyrider Elf are right there.. just waiting to win people the game.

I also don't get the 'good vs aggro' argument that was made.. those two creatures trade with everything in the ramp deck that's not an Eldrazi.

@Rabblemaster: Great post, and very generous of you to put in the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:57 am 
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CoGo,

The deck relies on luck...you have no way to fix your colored mana. In this Zendikar world, color fixing is a must, even if it is only Evolving Wilds. Rabble's results were actually better than I would have guessed.

I still don't get the obsession with 5 color durdle when Woodland Wanderer and Skyrider Elf are right there.. just waiting to win people the game.

I also don't get the 'good vs aggro' argument that was made.. those two creatures trade with everything in the ramp deck that's not an Eldrazi.

@Rabblemaster: Great post, and very generous of you to put in the time.


Because those are only 5 cards...very good cards, mind you, but only 5 total out of 60. They do nothing when they come into play, so bouncing them is gravy and your value is moot if they just kill it. They are extremely efficient cards, if you have the colored mana to play them.

Also, I don't want to build a "Converge" deck; CoGo's looks pretty good to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:21 am 
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Only 5 cards? I don't get that argument. Should we stop including mythic rares bc they are only 1-ofs?

Then we have the 'dies to removal' argument in disguise.. sigh.

Sure they can be bounced, but so can a bunch of bombs in the format. Does Breaker of Armies suck now bc it can be bounced and doesn't have an ETB? Sire of Stagnation? Let's go back to 2015.. does Baneslayer Angel suddenly suck bc it doesn't have an ETB? Brimaz? Rhox War Monk? Are you playing some type of ETB bounce deck where all your cards need to have an ETB?

Love you Kryder :) Also.. another strength of Pilgrim's Eye is that it's colorless, so you can keep mulligans without green mana.. and still play it if your green source gets mossed.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:06 pm 
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lol, Play All The Moss!

...
Yeah, Pilgrim's Eye sounds like a must in something like this.
I would also venture to add that Breaker of Armies can have a deck built around him, since he's Eldrazi and we have From Beyond, but those other two we have no reliable way of searching them (Woodland Bellower for X=0?), so if you crazy enough to care about consistency in a 5 color Timmy, then these may not fit the bill.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:28 pm 
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@Chile

With Evolving Wilds, dual lands, Gatecreeper Vine, Pilgrim's Eye and Natural Connection available to these decks.. I wouldn't be too scared of not being able to play the converge creatures for max or near the max.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Only 5 cards? I don't get that argument. Should we stop including mythic rares bc they are only 1-ofs?

Then we have the 'dies to removal' argument in disguise.. sigh.

Sure they can be bounced, but so can a bunch of bombs in the format. Does Breaker of Armies suck now bc it can be bounced and doesn't have an ETB? Sire of Stagnation? Let's go back to 2015.. does Baneslayer Angel suddenly suck bc it doesn't have an ETB? Brimaz? Rhox War Monk? Are you playing some type of ETB bounce deck where all your cards need to have an ETB?

Love you Kryder :) Also.. another strength of Pilgrim's Eye is that it's colorless, so you can keep mulligans without green mana.. and still play it if your green source gets mossed.


It's not an argument...it is playtesting and playstyle. I prefer a more controlling game, you prefer attacking. Those critters are GREAT at being bigger than their competition early. Come mid-game, they are competing with Eldrazi, which outperform them. I'm pretty content ramping up to Eldrazi instead of durdling along hoping to get to the mana necessary to cast them.

There was no "dies to removal" argument in there...everything dies to removal, that's a given. I'm about value. ETB effects, things like that. Things that made Golgari Control so good prior to B4Z (ask Hakeem, he loves that deck more than I do). I don't care if you kill my creatures, I've already gotten what I wanted out of them. (Sire of Stagnation is my lone exception...he hasn't panned out yet, but I keep hoping to see it. I think he might be a removal magnet or win-more). Also, those cards you mentioned are aggro-lishious...not the kind of value cards I am looking at.

And Pilgrim's Eye is a great card; trust me, I used it back in the Zendikar days. It keeps missing the cut in my build mainly because I want to ramp it out instead of putting it into my hand. Putting out Ob Nixilis, Oblivion Sower, Sire of Stagnation a turn sooner, or recovering from a turn-4 Acid-Moss tempo loss is far superior than putting out a 1/1 flyer that gets me a land that Woodland Wanderer looks at as an afternoon snack.

Love you too, you big gorilla...

chile125 wrote:
I would also venture to add that Breaker of Armies can have a deck built around him, since he's Eldrazi and we have From Beyond, but those other two we have no reliable way of searching them (Woodland Bellower for X=0?), so if you crazy enough to care about consistency in a 5 color Timmy, then these may not fit the bill.


Breaker is pretty good, but I took him out of my decks because of all the mass removal. Normally, he takes 2-3 turns to connect with the opponent and I didn't have anything else (except maybe a man-land) to hit them with. He is a big body for 8-mana. He is good for that if no other reason.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:44 pm 
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OK, I ran 10 games with my 5CC deck. Here are the results:

Game 1, RUG, Rank 37, Eldrazi and counters. Win.
Game 2, BUG, Rank 39, Loss.
Game 3, RDW, Rank 19. No removal, loss.
Game 4, Azban Elves, Rank 22, with Valor in Akros. 5 sweepers makes this look easy. Win
Game 5, RDW, Rank 33, Lifegain for the Win!
Game 6, RUG Value Creatures, Rank 38, Win.
Game 7, Radkos Sac Steal, Rank 28, Win.
Game 8, Selesnya Retreats, Rank 31, death by allies. Loss.
Game 9, Simic, Rank 40. Literally only played Zendikar Roil and Acid Moss X3. Ended up Displacment Wave to put everything back in hands, then cast Ulamog next turn. Loss.
Game 10, Golgari Control. I was down to 17 cards and my opponent to 4 when I finally won this one. Win.

So, 6-4, about 60%, so not too bad. I think I need another forest, but overall mana was good throughout. Game 9 I got hosed pretty good by the Acid Mosses, since it took out my lone mountain, but I was able to get rid of my Red Spells via Brillant Spectrum and keep moving on.

RDW is, no surprise, a pretty hard matchup, pretty dependent on getting a early sweeper off. Oddly enough, I lost the game to RDW I had Jaddi Offshoot out turn 1 and won the game I never saw it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:22 pm 
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I'm not so sure I'd call 60% 'not too bad'. If my kid brings home a 10 question test with a 60% (which is an F) he gets grounded ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:47 pm 
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I'm not so sure I'd call 60% 'not too bad'. If my kid brings home a 10 question test with a 60% (which is an F) he gets grounded ;)


For grades, yes. For magic decks, 60% is a good win percentage over a 10-game stretch, especially with no sideboard. Overall, the deck is pushing about 80% right now, counting all the changes.

Speaking of which, I have made some changes. I'll post them tomorrow with game plays.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:18 am 
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60% is an F in Florida ? It's a D- up here


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:11 am 
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Gegliosch wrote:

Interesting deck, looks very susceptible to colour screw, though. I'm not sure what Dispel does here, I'd probably replace it with Scatter to the Winds and Angelic Edict. Animist's Awakening is not very reliable unless you wanna spend a lot of mana to get even more lands than you already have. I'd probably only play that card in a deck with Scryfish. Telling Time does the same but you need 4 mana for that.

I'd also feel a little uncomfortable against aggro without early blockers. You basically get Radiant Flames or die.



I agree, the deck is trash. I wanted to play and added Radiant Flames with Languish just because. My real list is in the Bant section. Also, do you think I should work on a cool 5-color Allies deck?


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