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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:52 am 
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I want to fit Evolving Wilds in so badly but I don't know what to change in terms of lands as I notice I try to keep myself from playing Plains until Emeria Shepperd is out. Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:02 am 
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Empo wrote:
I want to fit Evolving Wilds in so badly but I don't know what to change in terms of lands as I notice I try to keep myself from playing Plains until Emeria Shepperd is out. Any suggestions?

-4 forest
+4 evolving wilds
:teach:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:19 am 
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lol derp, that easy huh? I'll give it a shot. XD


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:31 pm 
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Just got Oblivion Sower from a pack

Currently testing the Valor Outside Akros build with the following changes:
-3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
-1Retreat to Coralhelm
-4 Forest

+3 Natural Connection
+1 Oblivion Sower
+4 Evolving Wilds


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Hi guys,

A lot of the decks that I have submitted this year haven't been poetry in motion, and that is to be expected. I don't have the game yet, I can only test using paper cards against my own builds. I have experience testing for new formats this way, but it isn't always pretty. That is why I have been posting these untested, untuned designs, because I can usually tell from the feedback and posts by people who try the deck out whether or not the deck is any good. It helps me focus on the better and best ideas. Hopefully it doesn't damage your faith in me. I may not be the best builder out of a notebook, but I will out-test and out-work anybody when it comes to tuning a good idea into a great deck.

That is what make's today's post different. I have tested this deck a lot, and I feel it is a control deck that can challenge ramp decks. It has game against Acid Moss and the Eldrazi. It isn't great against red aggro, but after a lot of work I feel like that match-up is 50/50 against a competent opponent. I this can be a contender for best control deck. I hope you fine NGA folks will take it for a spin and let me know about the results. It is not an easy deck to pilot. Please try to refrain from "I went 2/4 and deleted this piece of garbage", I have played a lot of test games and I am confident it is not garbage, but since I have only tested it against G/R Ramp and RDW I am interested in knowing what other cards and decks in the field cause it problems.

I wrote a whole blog post about this deck that explains the building process and I go over most of the cards -

http://www.hauntedflower.com/blogs/duel ... ld-control

Anyway, here it is, I hope it is all I hope it to be.

2 x Planar Outburst
4 x Spell Shrivel
1 x Telling Time
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Bone to Ash
2 x Emeria Shepherd
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Knight of the White Orchid
2 x Drowner of Hope
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 x Tragic Arrogance
1 x Ruin Processor
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Felidar Cub
2 x Disperse
4 x Celestial Flare
2 x Suppression Bonds
1 x Forest
1 x Hinterland Harbor
5 x Island
2 x Prairie Stream
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Canopy Vista
6 x Plains
1 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Lumbering Falls


I hope you try and enjoy the blog post, I am trying to do something quite a bit different and less obvious than "Let's make an Elf deck", which feels like low-hanging fruit to me. Not saying I'll never do it, I just want to try harder...because I'm so try-hard.

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Last edited by CovertGo Blue on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Please try to refrain from "I went 2/4 and deleted this piece of garbage"


I promise nothing, Wagner.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Thank you for the list and for the blog post - and the blog in general, which has been top notch, both instructive and entertaining. I look forward to trying this deck out.

I would like to briefly respond to your "please don't go 2/4 and bash the deck" comment, as so far as I've noticed I'm the only player to do something similar recently, in regard to your 4C renanimator deck. First, while I did quit playing that specific list after going 2-5, I had played dozens of games with similar lists. It was the first archetype I tried to make work after BFZ was released. So I was trying to see if your version of the deck solved the problems mine had run into. Second, I found that I lost several games with your deck despite having extremely good draws against the opposing deck archetype. If it was losing in near best case scenarios, seven games felt like an adequate sample size.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:12 pm 
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randomname wrote:
Thank you for the list and for the blog post - and the blog in general, which has been top notch, both instructive and entertaining. I look forward to trying this deck out.

I would like to briefly respond to your "please don't go 2/4 and bash the deck" comment, as so far as I've noticed I'm the only player to do something similar recently, in regard to your 4C renanimator deck. First, while I did quit playing that specific list after going 2-5, I had played dozens of games with similar lists. It was the first archetype I tried to make work after BFZ was released. So I was trying to see if your version of the deck solved the problems mine had run into. Second, I found that I lost several games with your deck despite having extremely good draws against the opposing deck archetype. If it was losing in near best case scenarios, seven games felt like an adequate sample size.


Hey random, I definitely didn't mean to call you out, those "please don't go 2/4 and bash the deck" comments feel like they happen to me all the time, and I certainly wasn't thinking of you or any individual when I wrote it. It is also OK to feel that way about other decks, or any decks, I specifically asked people to try not to do that in this case because this specific deck is hard to play, and it takes a lot of practice, and it isn't intuitive. I just watched a good player run it, and there was a lot of potential for errors, and I think I even underestimated how hard it could be. So this is really a comment specifically about learning to play this Bant list and isn't directed at anyone else, and I agree that seven games with my untested, just for fun Reanimator was more than enough of a sample size in that case! I'll call that reaimator list garbage myself!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:51 pm 
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Hi guys,

A lot of the decks that I have submitted this year haven't been poetry in motion, and that is to be expected. I don't have the game yet, I can only test using paper cards against my own builds. I have experience testing for new formats this way, but it isn't always pretty. That is why I have been posting these untested, untuned designs, because I can usually tell from the feedback and posts by people who try the deck out whether or not the deck is any good. It helps me focus on the better and best ideas. Hopefully it doesn't damage your faith in me. I may not be the best builder out of a notebook, but I will out-test and out-work anybody when it comes to tuning a good idea into a great deck.

That is what make's today's post different. I have tested this deck a lot, and I feel it is a control deck that can challenge ramp decks. It has game against Acid Moss and the Eldrazi. It isn't great against red aggro, but after a lot of work I feel like that match-up is 50/50 against a competent opponent. I this can be a contender for best control deck. I hope you fine NGA folks will take it for a spin and let me know about the results. It is not an easy deck to pilot. Please try to refrain from "I went 2/4 and deleted this piece of garbage", I have played a lot of test games and I am confident it is not garbage, but since I have only tested it against G/R Ramp and RDW I am interested in knowing what other cards and decks in the field cause it problems.

I wrote a whole blog post about this deck that explains the building process and I go over most of the cards -

http://www.hauntedflower.com/blogs/duel ... ld-control

Anyway, here it is, I hope it is all I hope it to be.

2 x Planar Outburst
4 x Spell Shrivel
1 x Telling Time
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Bone to Ash
2 x Emeria Shepherd
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Knight of the White Orchid
2 x Drowner of Hope
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 x Tragic Arrogance
1 x Ruin Processor
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Felidar Cub
2 x Disperse
4 x Celestial Flare
2 x Suppression Bonds
1 x Forest
1 x Hinterland Harbor
5 x Island
2 x Prairie Stream
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Canopy Vista
6 x Plains
1 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Lumbering Falls


I hope you try and enjoy the blog post, I am trying to do something quite a bit different and less obvious than "Let's make an Elf deck", which feels like low-hanging fruit to me. Not saying I'll never do it, I just want to try harder...because I'm so try-hard.


Also, if you are one of those who cannot properly function without blue draw spells in your deck, here is a version I endorse. Please be warned, your red match-up will fall to between 20% and 30% but the deck will be easier to play and win by a larger margin against midrange decks.

2 x Planar Outburst
4 x Spell Shrivel
3 x Telling Time
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Bone to Ash
2 x Emeria Shepherd
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Knight of the White Orchid
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
4 x Inspiration
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Felidar Cub
2 x Disperse
3 x Celestial Flare
2 x Suppression Bonds
1 x Forest
1 x Hinterland Harbor
5 x Island
2 x Prairie Stream
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Canopy Vista
5 x Plains
1 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Lumbering Falls

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:57 pm 
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I'll try it for 10 games. I'm a little worried about all the double costs though.

I reserve the right to bash if I go 2/8.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:41 pm 
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vs an izzet control thopters eldrazi deck? No idea what it was. Dude left turn 4 and I had an epic battle against the ai. Seemed to be a control deck? The Ai misplayed multiple times though so not a good showing. Did win though with like 10 creatures on the board. WIN

vs RDW. I just got run over before I could do anything. The problem was that I couldn't cast Knight of the White Orchid until turn 4, because two of my first 3 lands (the 2nd two) came into play tapped. I also didn't really have counterspell mana up because of this. LOSS


vs Dimir Ingest Permission .... thingy. WIN. Dude felt the need to sit there all game and do nothing but answer my plays. <- Turn 2 Jace says "Hey. Why not. I can wait all day." and the counterspells in my hand agreed.


It's at this point that I'm going to stop playing Covert Blue's deck because it seems like my meta is not represenative of what people are seeing. Other than getting massacred by RDW, I don't think I'm providing useful data.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:26 am 
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I played fifteen games with it, five wins, ten losses. I'm not about to render judgment on the deck based on that, as I'm not nearly as good of a player as CovertGoBlue, but I think it does suggest that the deck is maybe not awesome. I do like control decks, but have generally gone with more direct (black) removal than this one has, so it's quite possible I'm handling it wrong. I'm at about 80% win rate in 25 game sample sizes with each of my three best decks in BFZ, so I don't think it's that I'm terrible at the game in general or anything. Games went as follows:

W, Mono-U Mill. If your opening hand has Felidar Cub, this is just a fantastic match-up. Drew and played Nissa T4, she flipped T7, easy win.

L, UB Aristocrats. Felbatista specifically. I played really badly. But I don't think it's a good match-up. Too many of their cards created more than one creature, and they had more counters than I had sweepers, and Rites to make sure they came out a card ahead any time I used one-for-one removal.

W, Simic Tempo. Extremely tense game. Won with one life left thanks to Disciple, both copies of Tragic Arrogance, and Lumbering Falls.

W, GW Ramp. Long game, but Emeria Shepherd ultimately took over.

L, RDW. Kept a sketchy hand on the play (5 lands, Kiora, Shrivel), got hit with T1 Glory Chaser T2 Wolf aura (can't remember name, it's the +3/2 one).

L, Esper Mill. Bad keep (two land hand, kept because I had Gideon and had mulled once, decided to gamble rather than go to 6). He had 2x Tutelage, I missed the fourth land drop for four turns and when I finally got land it was Lumbering Falls, which was tapped.

L, Naya Ramp. I feel like somehow I might have misplayed this one. It was a tricky game because for a number of turns I had Tragic Arrogance and a single counterspell, and knew he had Omnath (I'd dispersed it to prevent the trigger when I first played it – no counter at the time). He kept playing lesser threats, and I should have countered the last one, but I think I was probably losing no matter what.

L, RDW. I misplayed and probably should have won (he mulled to five).

L, UW Control/Awaken. Fairly close game. Opponent's list was fairly similar – counters, drowner, emeria shepherd. But he was playing clutch of currents over disperse and running skyspawner. He got his emeria shepherd down and brought back drowner of hope, and that decided things. The next turn I drew and played Kiora, and I had a flipped Jace on 8 loyalty to flash back the tragic arrogance Kiora dumped into the yard, unfortunately, not enough mana to do so that turn and he killed both planeswalkers on his next.

L, GW Aggro. T4 Gideon. I suppression bonds it two turns later, and swept his board with outburst, but then he drew reclamation sage, freed Gideon, and swung for lethal (He'd already gotten a couple good swings in. Had a retreat to emeria.)

L, UG Ramp. 2X Desolation Twin + Ulamog too much. Don't think I misplayed much either.
W, UG Ramp. Jace Ultimate. Jace, Planar outburst and Emeria Shepherd were the keys. Mossed three times.

L, 4C mill. Interesting deck, based on Brilliant Spectrum with Tutelage out. I missed my third land drop for a turn and then was another turn late on my fourth, and he had T2 Jace T3 Tutelage. Didn't draw Felidar Cub. I kept because of already having mulliganed once and my hand had Jace.

L, Temur Ramp/Control. He got an evoleap down T2 and generated massive card advantage throughout the game. Got Kiora down also for even more. I survived his ulamog, responded with Emeria Shepherd and plains bringing back suppression bonds (which my, later, Kiora had put in my yard), but then he had ignition sweeping the board followed the next turn with Umanth and Pillgrimage, and that was game, as I was dead just off the triggers if the elementals died.

L, RDW. Frustrating, long game. Thought I had this one. Flipped Jace pretty early, met his T1 glory seeker T2 aura with disperse, had a sweeper, flashed it back, supression bonds took care of his molten vortex. But he ended up chipping in enough damage to finish me off with traitorous instinct when I played a 4/4 with 4 life left. I certainly could have played differently at points, maybe played better, but I'm not immediately aware of any poor plays. I almost certainly would have won this game if there were a second forest in the deck, as both nissa and the lone forest were in my opening hand, and an extra land would have been decisive (emeria shepherd).

W, UB Aristocrats. He missed his third land drop for several turns, I had T4 Gideon (second game out of 15 I've had him. Deck may have looked better if he'd shown up a few more times.)

Total: 5-10

Thoughts: Often didn't have mana to cast everything in my hand early, which was a problem. I'd really like a second forest. Got no value out of nissa twice because I drew the forest before her. It doesn't feel like there is enough card advantage.

I'd guess on the whole that the deck would have the best win rate forgetting all about having a good matchup against RDW and going with something more like the alternate list CGB posted to aim for really good matches against everything else, or else shifting the mana base to support three Bounding Krasis (which are among the few cards helpful against both RDW and Ulamog, as tapping the big guy down for a turn is often relevant). If the Krasis were added, and perhaps even if they weren't, some number of the blue spell land that keeps a tapped creature tapped seem like a really good idea. They have been fantastic for me in both Simic Tempo and Simic ramp (and like Krassis, are useful against both aggro and ramp).

It feels really awkward to hold mana open for counter-spells with nothing else to do productively with the mana on the opponent's turn. Also, a couple of ramp opponents, when they saw I had Spell Shrivel, just worked around it by only casting stuff they could pay the extra four to force through. One had Ulamog in hand for several turns (he ran Titan's Presence and revealed Ulamog), but waited until he had 14 lands in play to cast him. I kind of like, without testing it, cutting three of the Spell Shrivels for Krasis. Shrivel is often not a great late game draw, and Krasis is a lot better against aggro.

Last, I think this deck should have another land, maybe two given the importance of Emeria Shepherd in long games. There were a lot of games where I had a bunch of high CMC cards and would have gladly traded any of them for a land.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:42 pm 
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randomname wrote:
I played fifteen games with it, five wins, ten losses. I'm not about to render judgment on the deck based on that, as I'm not nearly as good of a player as CovertGoBlue, but I think it does suggest that the deck is maybe not awesome. I do like control decks, but have generally gone with more direct (black) removal than this one has, so it's quite possible I'm handling it wrong. I'm at about 80% win rate in 25 game sample sizes with each of my three best decks in BFZ, so I don't think it's that I'm terrible at the game in general or anything. Games went as follows:

W, Mono-U Mill. If your opening hand has Felidar Cub, this is just a fantastic match-up. Drew and played Nissa T4, she flipped T7, easy win.

L, UB Aristocrats. Felbatista specifically. I played really badly. But I don't think it's a good match-up. Too many of their cards created more than one creature, and they had more counters than I had sweepers, and Rites to make sure they came out a card ahead any time I used one-for-one removal.

W, Simic Tempo. Extremely tense game. Won with one life left thanks to Disciple, both copies of Tragic Arrogance, and Lumbering Falls.

W, GW Ramp. Long game, but Emeria Shepherd ultimately took over.

L, RDW. Kept a sketchy hand on the play (5 lands, Kiora, Shrivel), got hit with T1 Glory Chaser T2 Wolf aura (can't remember name, it's the +3/2 one).

L, Esper Mill. Bad keep (two land hand, kept because I had Gideon and had mulled once, decided to gamble rather than go to 6). He had 2x Tutelage, I missed the fourth land drop for four turns and when I finally got land it was Lumbering Falls, which was tapped.

L, Naya Ramp. I feel like somehow I might have misplayed this one. It was a tricky game because for a number of turns I had Tragic Arrogance and a single counterspell, and knew he had Omnath (I'd dispersed it to prevent the trigger when I first played it – no counter at the time). He kept playing lesser threats, and I should have countered the last one, but I think I was probably losing no matter what.

L, RDW. I misplayed and probably should have won (he mulled to five).

L, UW Control/Awaken. Fairly close game. Opponent's list was fairly similar – counters, drowner, emeria shepherd. But he was playing clutch of currents over disperse and running skyspawner. He got his emeria shepherd down and brought back drowner of hope, and that decided things. The next turn I drew and played Kiora, and I had a flipped Jace on 8 loyalty to flash back the tragic arrogance Kiora dumped into the yard, unfortunately, not enough mana to do so that turn and he killed both planeswalkers on his next.

L, GW Aggro. T4 Gideon. I suppression bonds it two turns later, and swept his board with outburst, but then he drew reclamation sage, freed Gideon, and swung for lethal (He'd already gotten a couple good swings in. Had a retreat to emeria.)

L, UG Ramp. 2X Desolation Twin + Ulamog too much. Don't think I misplayed much either.
W, UG Ramp. Jace Ultimate. Jace, Planar outburst and Emeria Shepherd were the keys. Mossed three times.

L, 4C mill. Interesting deck, based on Brilliant Spectrum with Tutelage out. I missed my third land drop for a turn and then was another turn late on my fourth, and he had T2 Jace T3 Tutelage. Didn't draw Felidar Cub. I kept because of already having mulliganed once and my hand had Jace.

L, Temur Ramp/Control. He got an evoleap down T2 and generated massive card advantage throughout the game. Got Kiora down also for even more. I survived his ulamog, responded with Emeria Shepherd and plains bringing back suppression bonds (which my, later, Kiora had put in my yard), but then he had ignition sweeping the board followed the next turn with Umanth and Pillgrimage, and that was game, as I was dead just off the triggers if the elementals died.

L, RDW. Frustrating, long game. Thought I had this one. Flipped Jace pretty early, met his T1 glory seeker T2 aura with disperse, had a sweeper, flashed it back, supression bonds took care of his molten vortex. But he ended up chipping in enough damage to finish me off with traitorous instinct when I played a 4/4 with 4 life left. I certainly could have played differently at points, maybe played better, but I'm not immediately aware of any poor plays. I almost certainly would have won this game if there were a second forest in the deck, as both nissa and the lone forest were in my opening hand, and an extra land would have been decisive (emeria shepherd).

W, UB Aristocrats. He missed his third land drop for several turns, I had T4 Gideon (second game out of 15 I've had him. Deck may have looked better if he'd shown up a few more times.)

Total: 5-10

Thoughts: Often didn't have mana to cast everything in my hand early, which was a problem. I'd really like a second forest. Got no value out of nissa twice because I drew the forest before her. It doesn't feel like there is enough card advantage.

I'd guess on the whole that the deck would have the best win rate forgetting all about having a good matchup against RDW and going with something more like the alternate list CGB posted to aim for really good matches against everything else, or else shifting the mana base to support three Bounding Krasis (which are among the few cards helpful against both RDW and Ulamog, as tapping the big guy down for a turn is often relevant). If the Krasis were added, and perhaps even if they weren't, some number of the blue spell land that keeps a tapped creature tapped seem like a really good idea. They have been fantastic for me in both Simic Tempo and Simic ramp (and like Krassis, are useful against both aggro and ramp).

It feels really awkward to hold mana open for counter-spells with nothing else to do productively with the mana on the opponent's turn. Also, a couple of ramp opponents, when they saw I had Spell Shrivel, just worked around it by only casting stuff they could pay the extra four to force through. One had Ulamog in hand for several turns (he ran Titan's Presence and revealed Ulamog), but waited until he had 14 lands in play to cast him. I kind of like, without testing it, cutting three of the Spell Shrivels for Krasis. Shrivel is often not a great late game draw, and Krasis is a lot better against aggro.

Last, I think this deck should have another land, maybe two given the importance of Emeria Shepherd in long games. There were a lot of games where I had a bunch of high CMC cards and would have gladly traded any of them for a land.


Wow, thanks for going through all that and posting it. Losing sucks, sorry a deck of mine put you through it. One thing that I mentioned is that I have only tested against two decks, so far the results watching others play and reading posts like this shows that the meta is a lot more diverse than it was last week. I am also confident that this deck is not everyone's cup of tea, and that is ok, you may bash my decks appropriately if you so prefer. I also wouldn't play the deck myself if the meta becomes mostly red aggro, and while I still have two days of compiling meta-game data before I write another diaries post about it, I'll give you a preview - it is really, REALLY Red out there.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm 
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it is really, REALLY Red out there.


I think that is a bit of exaggeration. I'm seeing about 20% of my matchups...tops...against RDW.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:44 pm 
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As I stated I'll start with bant, izzet or rakdos in BFZ and I also believe that Bant is the way against ramp but I took a bit different approach in constructing my theorycrafted list. I'll post the cards I want to pick from later, when I get on my laptop.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:30 pm 
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So here are the cards I'm considering for my bant deck:

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Celestial Flare
4 x Horribly Awry
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Reclamation Sage
3 x Skyrider Elf
3 x Bounding Krasis
2 x Scatter to the Wind
2 x Woodland Wanderer
1 x Gideon, Hero of Zendikar
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 x From Beyond
3 x Retreat to Emeria
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Aligned Hedron Network
2 x Willbreaker
2 x Guardian of Tazeem
2 x Planar Outburst
4 x Angelic Edict
1 x Part the Waterveil
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Oblivion Sower
2 x Emeria Shepherd
24 x Land


They sum up to 78 cards, now here's my thought process:
1) I started with the blue counters, so 4 Horribly Awry, 2 Scatter to the Wind
2) What do I need to take care of? 2 x Gaea's Revenge, 2 x Plated Crusher, 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, value enchantments - I always liked Angelic Edict so 4x Angelic Edict it is, for the Crushers and Revenges I need Celestial Flare. Ok, those might get taken care of, but I need chumps just in case - Retreat to Emeria is in.
3) Aggro - Planar Outburst, Celestial Flare. Bounding Krasis and some chumps might get me there, but that of I'm not sure yet, maybe I'll need some more early blockers.
4) What could be another way to deal with late game bombs except of removal? Willbreaker, so I need triggers for it, added Whirler Rogue, Guardian of Tazeem and Bounding Krasis
5) Ok, I'm playing 3 colours so why not use some value - Woodland Wanderer and Skyrider Elf
6) Let's add some graveyard recursion - Emeria Shepherd, Guardian of Murasa
7) Planeswalkers! - some more value, we have Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Kiora, Master of the Depths and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
8) So now some more value in those colours - enchantments Retreat to Emeria (chumps, chumps, chumps), From Beyond. Part the Waterveil and Oblivion Sower. (Retreat to Kazandu might also be considered)

I do think that with the evolution of the thought process the counters should be dropped or only Scatter to the Wind should stay. Just posted mpst cards I considered. Maybe ramp cards would be helpful for color fixing and vs moss.

The decks is a bit all over the place, but I need to start playing when the game drops on ios to refine it. But I hope, that my thought process will help someone else in creating a masterpiece ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:03 am 
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Auunj wrote:
So here are the cards I'm considering for my bant deck:

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Celestial Flare
4 x Horribly Awry
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Reclamation Sage
3 x Skyrider Elf
3 x Bounding Krasis
2 x Scatter to the Wind
2 x Woodland Wanderer
1 x Gideon, Hero of Zendikar
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 x From Beyond
3 x Retreat to Emeria
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Aligned Hedron Network
2 x Willbreaker
2 x Guardian of Tazeem
2 x Planar Outburst
4 x Angelic Edict
1 x Part the Waterveil
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Oblivion Sower
2 x Emeria Shepherd
24 x Land


They sum up to 78 cards, now here's my thought process:
1) I started with the blue counters, so 4 Horribly Awry, 2 Scatter to the Wind
2) What do I need to take care of? 2 x Gaea's Revenge, 2 x Plated Crusher, 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, value enchantments - I always liked Angelic Edict so 4x Angelic Edict it is, for the Crushers and Revenges I need Celestial Flare. Ok, those might get taken care of, but I need chumps just in case - Retreat to Emeria is in.
3) Aggro - Planar Outburst, Celestial Flare. Bounding Krasis and some chumps might get me there, but that of I'm not sure yet, maybe I'll need some more early blockers.
4) What could be another way to deal with late game bombs except of removal? Willbreaker, so I need triggers for it, added Whirler Rogue, Guardian of Tazeem and Bounding Krasis
5) Ok, I'm playing 3 colours so why not use some value - Woodland Wanderer and Skyrider Elf
6) Let's add some graveyard recursion - Emeria Shepherd, Guardian of Murasa
7) Planeswalkers! - some more value, we have Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Kiora, Master of the Depths and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
8) So now some more value in those colours - enchantments Retreat to Emeria (chumps, chumps, chumps), From Beyond. Part the Waterveil and Oblivion Sower. (Retreat to Kazandu might also be considered)

I do think that with the evolution of the thought process the counters should be dropped or only Scatter to the Wind should stay. Just posted mpst cards I considered. Maybe ramp cards would be helpful for color fixing and vs moss.

The decks is a bit all over the place, but I need to start playing when the game drops on ios to refine it. But I hope, that my thought process will help someone else in creating a masterpiece ;-)

This thought process lead you to generally good cards, but I don't see it address the most important questions that should be the origin of every new deck idea: What is your general gameplan and main win condition? I get the impression that you just decided to go bant and pick good cards in these colours.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:11 pm 
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Posts: 583

Wow, thanks for going through all that and posting it. Losing sucks, sorry a deck of mine put you through it. One thing that I mentioned is that I have only tested against two decks, so far the results watching others play and reading posts like this shows that the meta is a lot more diverse than it was last week. I am also confident that this deck is not everyone's cup of tea, and that is ok, you may bash my decks appropriately if you so prefer. I also wouldn't play the deck myself if the meta becomes mostly red aggro, and while I still have two days of compiling meta-game data before I write another diaries post about it, I'll give you a preview - it is really, REALLY Red out there.


No need at all to apologize - I found the games quite interesting to play. Winning is more fun than losing, yes, but becoming a better player helps that in the long run, even if the short term can be a bit bumpy. Seeing how experienced players approach deck building and playing their decks unmodified for a decent set of games before trying to adjust them has felt like a very useful training exercise, as I'm relatively new to the game (six months or so), though I've played a lot during that time. This isn't a deck I'd have come up with, or come close to thinking of, so I learned a lot trying to understand it. Decisions like when to tap out and when to leave up counters, and what spells should be countered, were quite interesting. Thank you for posting the deck.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:06 pm 
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Posts: 1648
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Geg, you're entirely right. I could post a decklist that is more focused, but as I still don't have the game I'd have to post 3 of them, each one focusing on a different aspect. I don't know yet, how things will turn out. Being late to the party sucks. Well in real it isn't always the case, vut it surely is in duels.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:39 pm 
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Posts: 136
Identity: Male
I've been having some fun with Bant flyers aggro deck the last couple of days. Posted around a 70% win ration at rank 40ish.

4 x Faerie Miscreant
4 x Welkin Tern
4 x Mist Intruder
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 x Skyrider Elf
3 x Whirler Rogue
3 x Thunderclap Wyvern

4 x Clutch of Currents
4 x Tightening Coils
4 x Disperse

4 x Evolving Wilds
4 x Island
3 x Plains
3 x Forest
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Prairie Stream
1 x Foundry of the Consuls


I haven't been seeing much Twin Bolt, Boiling Earth, or Radiant Flames, any of which are very good against this deck. Even managed to pull out some wins against Eldrazi Ramp, although you have to kill them before they get to 10 mana and overcoming their lifegain can be a challenge.

Fun deck, though, straightforward to play and the games are fast.


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