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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Reclusive Artificer is trash.. otherwise, nice deck. No Chandra? She seems like a perfect fit here.


I could see adding Chandra. What do you think about switching out the Reclusive Artificer for Twin Bolts to trigger Chandra or maybe even Titan's Strength for extra damage + scry useless lands?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:36 pm 
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I could see adding Chandra. What do you think about switching out the Reclusive Artificer for Twin Bolts to trigger Chandra or maybe even Titan's Strength for extra damage + scry useless lands?

Artificers trigger Chandra if that's your only reason to replace them.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
I could see adding Chandra. What do you think about switching out the Reclusive Artificer for Twin Bolts to trigger Chandra or maybe even Titan's Strength for extra damage + scry useless lands?

Artificers trigger Chandra if that's your only reason to replace them.


No, I know. I wanted to test them because they seem like they're okay in the deck has a threat + removal but MegaBeast was saying that aren't very good. I don't have enough thopter cards to properly test them so I was just going off his experience. Do you think Artificers are good? Have you tested them at all? Thanks for the input. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:20 pm 
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No, I didn't test Thopters much. Every second game I play against Thopters or Elves and I don't wanna join the club.

I guess the card is playable if you include Alchemist's Vial to keep artifacts on the board against removal heavy opponents. But maybe the deck has no room for both, I don't know. One might also argue that the downside of conditional removal isn't worth the extra body. The removal aspect will rarely be better than Exquisite Firecraft and it depends on the deck if a 2/3 makes up for that.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:21 pm 
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I think Artificers are bad too and it's 100% because of the mana cost. I know the ability has potential, but the body is small and it can whiff. I expect more guaranteed value for four mana, especially when we have Whirler Rogue, Spy Network, and Pia/Kiran competing at that cost. If this cost three, it would probably be the first card in my deck.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
No, I didn't test Thopters much. Every second game I play against Thopters or Elves and I don't wanna join the club.

I guess the card is playable if you include Alchemist's Vial to keep artifacts on the board against removal heavy opponents. But maybe the deck has no room for both, I don't know. One might also argue that the downside of conditional removal isn't worth the extra body. The removal aspect will rarely be better than Exquisite Firecraft and it depends on the deck if a 2/3 makes up for that.


Not sure if the 2/3 body is worth it. Also, Hakeem got me thinking about the potential down side. I think at this point there are better options than Artificer at 4-slot but since I'm not running Whirler Rogue or an additional copy of Spy Network is does balance out the curve (for a more mid-range deck). Now I have to determine whether or that is better than cheaper red aggressive cards and I'm not sure it is. Twin bolt would be better removal early game, add more reach, and probably do more the deck overall. Titan's Strength is another option as a good way to push through a lot of game early and setup the early game. I think both are viable considerations over Artificer but I'm leaning more towards Twin Bolt at this point. Does that sound about right to you? i just want to make sure I'm not over looking anything here. Thanks again for the feedback. :)

Hakeem928 wrote:
I think Artificers are bad too and it's 100% because of the mana cost. I know the ability has potential, but the body is small and it can whiff. I expect more guaranteed value for four mana, especially when we have Whirler Rogue, Spy Network, and Pia/Kiran competing at that cost. If this cost three, it would probably be the first card in my deck.


Thanks, Hakeem. I made a note of that and you're right 4-mana slot is very congested with good cards. I'm much rather have something else in that slot. The thing is that right now it's helping out the curve. So I'm not sure if bringing the curve down is better or replacing the 4-slot would be better. Adding Whirler Rogue would put a strench on the mana and prolong the early red drops. Is there another option at 4 that would be good? I already have Juggernaut, Thopter Spy Network, and Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Is there anything that would be better than Reclusive Artificer for this slot or do you think I should just lower the curve?

By the way, just got my first planeswalker! :D

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:30 am 
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I tried building hakeem's thopters but lacked quite a few of the cards so what I missed I banged in Jhessian Thief, Willbreaker, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Anchor to the Aether and Reclusive Artificer. It won 5 lost 2 but felt pretty decent with plenty of draw!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 am 
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I found Reclusive Artificer performed well in my artifact deck built around Flameshadow because you generate loads of thopters quickly and then are usually hitting for 4 damage+ to two creatures and adding 4 haste power to your board which is OP for 4CMC.

I would not run them unless you are playing with at least 1 Flameshadow Conjuring

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:25 pm 
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Yo, Turned Rank 40 yesterday thanks to this deck.
UR Thopters, decklist in the spoiler, link to my original post - https://steamcommunity.com/app/316010/d ... 9396085#p1
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:08 am 
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Here is my Izzet Mill decklist, I'll be writing more about it in the upcoming Duels Diaries week 6 (posting later today!)

1 x Molten Vortex
4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Telling Time
4 x Disperse
4 x Twin bolt
2 x Displacement Wave
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Hydrolash
4 x Artificer's Epiphany
4 x Inspiration
9 x Island
6 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Izzet Guildgate

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:29 am 
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Last edited by CovertGo Blue on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:34 am 
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I still haven't unlocked the 2nd tragic arrogance so I tried Covert's Izzet Mill. I am missing one disperse so I swapped one anchor. It has been running reasonably well - the biggest problem is not drawing Tutelage early enough, or having it removed.

The worst performing card for me has been the foundries. This deck has a VERY high mana intensity. I typically win games with between 8 and 11 lands in play, and I use virtually every mana every turn. I don't want to use 6 mana and sac a land in order to get two fliers that may die to twinbolts my opponent has been holding onto all game. The flasks and disperses have been excellent at dealing with larger threats. I am really starting to see the value of flask, especially with the option of using displacement wave to recast them.

I wonder if you considered countermagic. The deck is about 80% at instant speed. The flasks and tutelages are the only sorcery speed spells. It is easy to hold mana open. Just a sprinkling, maybe 2 countermands, would be nice against big plays.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:27 am 
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I've been playing this deck since release and started with countermagic. Then I removed more and more creatures and answers for more card draw, because that's the main engine of the deck. In my experience it's more important to always have draw cards in hand than more answers to threats. The only big threats you can't delay are Gaea's Revenge, which is immune to counters anyway, and the Huntbeast. When Huntbeast hits the board you better have Jhessian Thief to block it - counters would be awesome for that thing, but you won't always have 3-4 mana open on your early turns, you need to play the Tutelage if you have it and the Vial if you don't. If it makes you feel safer, countermagic isn't the worst thing to add, though ;)

I feel the same way about foundry and didn't include it in my version. This allows me to avoid the Izzet Guildgates, because I really wanna curve out to speed things up.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:31 am 
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I think izzet mill is bad.

You will beat control decks of an average hand, sure.

But vs an average netdeck aggro hand you will just fold, unless you get the mega early tutelage AND the required early burn AND the correct land mixture.
Then you have to hope that nothing stops your wincon, and that you don't flood out, and if you lose control, only displacement wave can maybe save you. At sorcery speed.

It's wishfull thinking.


Sultai mill is viable because of endless fog effects / languishes. In the sultai thread there has been multiple viable builds posted. Izzet is a one trick pony that hopes that everyone plays foundry street denizens and that it keeps drawing twinbolts.

I'd say of an average hand it doesn' t have HALF the staying power of sultai mill.


2/5 on steam at rank 40 (ish, when I lose i allow my opponent the winning swing, I don' t alt f4 cuzz OH NO PRETTY EMBLEM OF RANK). :thumbsdown:


I'm still messing with it, so far I think geg has the right ideas, the thief is a good blocker in this deck, and avoiding lots of gates will sometimes make your whish upon a star come true. IMO we need some evacuation or that old red sweeper that does damage to each creature based on the number of creatures in play for izzet to be better than sultai mill.
Hydrolash alone doesn't cut it. Displacement wave is worse here because you can't fog on their turn if they are using haste etc.

BTW geg I really like your sultai mill build. I think it's maybe a bit less reliable than the one I posted because it uses alot of mana for big shiny effects, but it's alot of fun to play :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Glad you like the Sultai, these kinds of decks really have a lot of staying power. I think you're right that it is a little safer than Izzet. However, I also think that Izzet is much better than you say. I face a lot of aggressive RDW, Renown, Elves and aura based decks and my win ratio is very high, even against the worst possible matchups.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:59 pm 
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I think the first 2015 decklist I posted was an Izzet prowess deck. Looking back it is a pretty terrible list, I was hedging my bets because I had no idea what the meta would be like.

I decided to revisit the idea. I stole some ideas but I also wanted more consistency. Here is what I came up with:

3 x goblin glory chaser

3 x fiery impulse
2 x abbot of keral keep
4 x mage-ring bully
4 x infectious bloodlust
3 x telling time
4 x twin bolt
2 x dragon fodder

3 x jhessian thief
2 x claustrophobia
3 x anchor to the aether
1 x exquisite firecraft

2 x soulblade djinn

7 x island
9 x mountain
2 x sulfur falls
2 x rogue's passage
4 x izzet guildgate


The gameplan is relatively simple. You put your early creatures on the board, and then use non-creature spells ("spells") to wipe away your opponent's blockers. The deck has tremendous flexibility because you control the timing of your pumps and your opponent has no real way of predicting how big your creatures are going to be.

The curve reflects this game plan. 6 one cost spells, 19 two cost, 9 three cost, and 2 five cost. There are 11 creatures at 2 mana or below and only five above two mana. The deck has very good means of dealing with chump blockers thanks to plentiful burn spells, but only limited means of dealing with creatures that have 4 or more toughness directly via removal. Instead the combination of pumps (prowess, bloodlust) unblockability (rogue's passage), evasion (glory chaser and djinn) and limited face burn (twin bolt, 1x exquisite firecraft) should be enough to see you through.

One card I don't think has seen enough play is anchor to the aether. Disperse has significant value if you are going to hold 2 mana open, but I like anchor more for decks that want to tap out. I don't feel like I have to save it for critical moments later in the game, I can get some early damage through and still come out ahead in terms of card advantage.

I am not going to claim this is better than thopters but it is certainly a fun deck to play. It performs worst against control but I think dragon fodder + bloodlust helps against removal.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:43 pm 
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no displacement wave to deal with flipped walkers and tokens?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Like I said the control suite isn't meant to deal with every threat. We are packing enough burn to remove walkers before they flip, twinbolt deals with tokens just fine. The real problem with D wave for me is that most of my offensive arsenal is 2 mana or less, so there won't be many situations where I can use D wave to push damage through. D wave also works well with creatures with good EtB abilities, my deck only has 2 abbotts.

After some playtesting I am making the following changes:
-2 rogue's passage
-1 izzet guildgate
+2 mountain
+1 island
This gives me 16 red sources, because turn 1 glory chaser is just awesome. One other minor change:
-1 infectious bloodlust
+1 fiery impulse
When I play a card as a 4 of I need to be prepared to draw 2 copies regularly and 3 copies occasionally. Bloodlust doesn't fit the bill for a 4 of. On the other hand fiery impulse is very very cheap, allowing me to get 2 or 3 spells off in a single turn.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:30 pm 
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Hi all! I am new to this forum so forgive me if I don't use proper syntax to make this decklist. I have been having a lot of fun (and success) with a control/burn deck I recently made and I would like to share it with you all. I have always loved burn decks and I usually try to make one work with every new edition of duels to no avail. But I think I may be on to something here. Its pretty easy to scoff at the idea but dont knock it til you try it. I went 4 out of 5 in ranked just when I was testing it.

1 Drops
3 x Goblin Arsonist
2 x Molten Vortex
4 x Fiery Impulse

2 Drops
3 x Perilous Myr
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
3 x Mage-Ring Bully
3 x Telling Time
3 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt

3 Drops
3 x Jhessian Thief
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

4 Drop
4 x Inspiration

Lands
6 x Island
10 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
4 x Izzet Guildgate


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Goblin Arsonist should probably be Glory Chaser. It doesn't burn, but it has way better damage potential. I'd also consider Infectious Bloodlust, as it has good synergy with Prowess. If they remove the enchanted creature, you get another one to trigger Prowess again.


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