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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:45 am 
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beeswax wrote:
Maybe a lot has changed in a couple of days, but this landfall deck isn't happening for me... at all. Can't see 25-3 win ratio or anything near it. It has just been sucking for me sadly.

Any further discussion on this?

To reiterate, it's just... a whole lot of slow nothing. It's trying to accomplish what classic Origins RDW and boros do so well, and it just doesn't really work.

Especially now with all the other new BFZ cards, more board wipes, more tricks. I don't see early game aggro gruul landfall working at all.

I get a snapping gnarlid out on turn 2.. maybe turn 3 I draw a scythe leopard.. I hit for 4 or 5 with gnarlid and a pump, my opponent is settling their board and gaining advantage, kills my weenies.. I draw fiery impulse... maybe a goblin glory chaser... oh look now the board has wiped, or I'm facing a few fat creatures, or an enchant I can't overcome etc.

It has not been explosive at all for me. Gonna stick to classic RDW / boros, love my mage ring and call of the full moon

Idk how many games you have put it but i'm rank 30 now and I'm consistently winning. Not to be rude but maybe you are just playing the deck incorrectly, or you have had really poor mulligan's. Stick to the deck you are comfortable with, but I'll gladly continue to eat up the ladder with this deck.

Yeah, I don’t think landfall is a tier one mechanic. It's super slow

I'm gonna keep grinding out games with this list so see if my first 40 were a fluke, but so far if played correctly It destroys the current decks im playing on ladder whether it be control, mid range, or other aggro decks. Other aggro decks often all in and then run out of steam, while this deck has a consistent mid to late game.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:51 am 
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I believe you WeCo! Don't listen to the haters!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:05 pm 
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thanks beast :D

I just think that you are writing off the deck after a few bad games @beeswax, the deck doesn't play like classic rdw or boros its a more board control oriented list. Sometimes you get your explosive hand with 1 drop into 2 drop followed by a second two drop mixed with titan's strength or wild size. And each of these turns your creatures are getting pumped by the landfall trigger(if you hit the evolving wilds, that's +2/2). Unlike the other aggro decks if you pump your creature snag a favorable trade and retain board presence they just lose because the aggro decks with enchantments go all in on one minion, and if the minion dies they lose to 3 or 4 of your creatures if you play it slowly and develop the board. Versus control or ramp they are spending the early turns trying to hit their land's playing things like gatecreeper vines and visionary somtimes(I haven't seen perilous myr since the expansion dropped). Even if they hit the early cheap removal spells, if you mulligan properly looking for about 2 lands, 3-4 creatures, and 1-2 combat tricks you should have no issue redeveloping. The Grove Rumbler, Akoum Stonewaker and Akoum Firebird have all been really impressive late game finishers, and combined with either a wide board or exquisite firecraft they usually get the job done. I'm probably telling you **** you already know.... but basically all i'm saying is I believe the deck is strong and consistent if you pilot it correctly and play to the strengths of the list.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:56 pm 
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I've faced this now. Having lands as your primary pumps leaves counterspells useless, and the 1 match I managed to win was using Kryder's Abzan list (only 1-3) for the amount of board wipes I had. Even gaining in excess of 20 life I couldn't take it.

Good games though. The Orzhov mirror was a chore haha.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Last edited by CovertGo Blue on Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:13 pm 
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covert :D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:04 pm 
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Hmm, wasn't trying to be a hater, and not playing "incorrectly" just really baffled at the positive feedback.

I think explosive is the key word.. RDW and boros are explosive, this gruul landfall aggro just isn't. I think gruul landfall has some merit in mid range, late game, but not put together as an aggro deck.

Was trying to get a broader discussion going. Are people really playing this deck and winning, or just giving positive feedback on this thread? I guess I'll drop it if I really am the only one with this unpopular opinion =\\


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Yeah, we have to wear oven mitts around here now

Everyone is awesome ! All decks are tier one ! All avatars look incredible ! Elks posts are remarkable !


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:32 pm 
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beeswax wrote:
Hmm, wasn't trying to be a hater, and not playing "incorrectly" just really baffled at the positive feedback.

I think explosive is the key word.. RDW and boros are explosive, this gruul landfall aggro just isn't. I think gruul landfall has some merit in mid range, late game, but not put together as an aggro deck.

Was trying to get a broader discussion going. Are people really playing this deck and winning, or just giving positive feedback on this thread? I guess I'll drop it if I really am the only one with this unpopular opinion =\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


You are correct in saying it plays more like an aggressive mid range deck most of the time. I've been testing literally nothing but this deck for the past two days, and it has been showing really positive results not only on the ranked ladder but also testing versus multiple members on the forums. The deck can be explosive, while also having pretty solid scaling into the mid and late game.

Unless you're putting in the games and actually actively testing the deck as much as I am, I don't take too kindly to you bashing it :D

Maybe its just variance and I'm getting lucky :/ But i'm just going to keep testing it out, make a few changes here and there, and let the numbers speak for themselves

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Last edited by WeCoexist on Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Elks posts are remarkable !


I believe I found my new signature


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:55 pm 
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beeswax wrote:
Hmm, wasn't trying to be a hater, and not playing "incorrectly" just really baffled at the positive feedback.

I think explosive is the key word.. RDW and boros are explosive, this gruul landfall aggro just isn't. I think gruul landfall has some merit in mid range, late game, but not put together as an aggro deck.

Was trying to get a broader discussion going. Are people really playing this deck and winning, or just giving positive feedback on this thread? I guess I'll drop it if I really am the only one with this unpopular opinion =\\\\\\\\


Agree.
I tested landfall aggro when the game came out, and decided to drop it for now because of bad results. I personally think that it's just the lack of extra fetches, since we did get alot of good low cmc landfall dudes.
I also agree that a mid range version should be better, there are a few extremely powerful plays higher up the curve with landfall in this pool.
Covert's list, although theory craft, is imo much better, but still not extremely convincing.
Don't drop the discussion, this is a forum :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Lol

Coexist, it's not random feedback. He piloted your deck. It should be a discussion if anything


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:06 pm 
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I know its not random feedback lol

Just because you play 1-5 games with a deck and have a bad run doesn't make it bad is my point. I'm wouldn't be so adamant about saying that it's good if I didn't have the results to back it up.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:18 pm 
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elk wrote:
Elks posts are remarkable !


I believe I found my new signature


elk


Hopefully you'll correct the grammar first.

Hey guys, I've been playing WeCo's deck a bit this afternoon.

WeCo's Gruul Landfall is legit guys. 6-0 right now, even recovered from a bad keep and an early sweeper (although if he would have had any lifegain I'm pretty sure I would have lost).

Fantastic, quick build. Pretty fun math deck. Good job, WeCo!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:13 pm 
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I've tested it enough I think, just my experience with it. Not bashing it, don't think it's the way I play it, maybe just agree to disagree on this one. When I see a post with an enormous win ratio deck I'll try it out expecting it to be an emerging top tier deck, based on the stated win ratio... I didn't find that here

If it's going to sit in the aggro deck tier it has to be as good or better than RDW / boros. If it isn't, why am I playing it? As a sub par gimmick? I am often defending with this deck and begging for an out, and there is no more steam or surprises that will win me the game. Rdw and boros are very aggressive and the opponent is always on the defence. I find with gruul landfall my opponent isn't as scared or worried, he can control my landfall creatures a bit more. I dunno if I explained that well enough but yeah..

Personal note exist, keep posting, it's what this forums here for. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers just my input on a deck that was introduced as an enormous win ratio top tier deck. It's gonna get the scrutiny to see if it fits the title


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
Hopefully you'll correct the grammar first.

It's a Barney post. If I corrected the grammar, folks wouldn't believe he said it. ;)


When I had intended to post my landfall variation, I found that WeCo had posted his list which was similar to mine. I decided to make suggestions towards his based on differences I had (since his was better) and have been running that variation. Here's what I'm currently testing:

3 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Titan's Strength
3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Scythe Leopard

1 x Slab Hammer
4 x Makindi Sliderunner
4 x Snapping Gnarlid
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
2 x Akoum Stonewaker

3 x Wildsize
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
1 x Retreat to Valakut

1 x Akoum Firebird
3 x Grove Rumbler

5 x Mountain
6 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Cinder Glade
4 x Evolving Wilds
4 x Looming Spires
1 x Rogue's Passage

Based on a comment made I have to say people aren't spending enough time/mana on Akoum Stonewaker. That card on board with one other 2 drop and you can potentially be swinging for 8dmg a turn just based on landfall triggers.

Slab Hammer is actually quite useful here especially at the 4 and 5 mana mark. The +2/+2 is fine but it's more the cycle of land play ensuring that every turn has a drop (and it's nice to repeat with Looming Spires). Slab Hammer almost makes me want to try running Swell of Growth. Slab Hammer also seems like it could be fun with several of the other ETB lands.




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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:27 pm 
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That looks pretty sweet elk! I'm interested to test out the Slab Hammer and Retreat to Valakut, i've also been looking at Swell of Growth just not sure what to cut for it. Our mana is just about the same now as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:14 pm 
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Yay, CovertGoBlue is back! I'm a new poster here but I've enjoyed your analyses immensely. Keep up the fine work!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:35 am 
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Been testing this deck for about ~10 wins, and I can tell you Gruul is as strong as ever!
Though I dont have every card yet. (Missing both Oran-Rief Hydras and Akoum Firebird)

Radiant Flames has been useful quite often even though the deck can only get to 2 damage. Alltough it also has been a dead card sometimes.
Hard to say if Rolling Thunder or Ravaging Blaze or something else would be better.

Plated Crusher is really good, trample is a huge deal. Only running 1 might be a mistake.
Can't say if it's better than Gaea's Revenge, I guess it's a meta call. I haven't met many counterspell decks so far. But if they start popping up, I will probably swap in Gaea.

The one somewhat underperforming card has been Grove Rumbler, sure sometimes it attacks as a 7/7 trample and is awesome. But most often its a 5/5 and a 3/3 on the enemy turn which makes it die to a lot of things. (Fiery Impulse, fully powered Radiant Flames)
Woodland Wanderer might be better as a consistent 4/4 vigilance + trample.

But still the deck is really strong. I haven't counted but I think I won like 10 out of 14 games.

Edit: Also thinking about including Rogue's Passage.

Edit 2: Maybe it would even be worth splashing a 3rd color just for Woodland Wanderer & Radiant Flames since we have good fixing already with 4x Gatecreeper Vine and 4x Evolving Wilds.

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