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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Even if you kill/counter it on t4, you can always play another revival on turn 5. If you played jace you can even reuse the original revival from the graveyard.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:13 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:04 am 
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I don''t think it will be the best deck in the field, but I like the theme. Very simple and elegant.

mana issues:

8 untapped and twelve total sources of black isn't enough for sludge crawler and languish.

t3 scatter to the winds isn't necessary because of 4 spell shrivel. So you can drop a bit of blue.

-1 Mist Intruder - 2 Island +2 swamp +1 Mortuary Mire

-1 Horribly Awry +1 Telling time. Horribly Awry can be a dead card. Telling time never is.

Inspiration x4 might be too much or might not be, it's bloody expensive; how bout -1 Inspiration +1 Telling Time

How bout another sweeper ? -1 Titan's Presence +1 Aligned Hedron Network vs rampdecks. Hits Gaea and Crusher. Kindof a nonbo with your own guys, but it might be necessary, unsure.

Disciple of the Ring seems like it could be great here too. -1 Ulamog's Despoiler perhaps?
I personally prefer Ruin Processor over Ulamog's Despoiler.

Anyway, have fun with it :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:40 am 
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I don''t think it will be the best deck in the field, but I like the theme. Very simple and elegant.

mana issues:

8 untapped and twelve total sources of black isn't enough for sludge crawler and languish.

t3 scatter to the winds isn't necessary because of 4 spell shrivel. So you can drop a bit of blue.

-1 Mist Intruder - 2 Island +3 swamp

-1 Horribly Awry +1 Telling time. Horribly Awry can be a dead card. Telling time never is.

Inspiration x4 might be too much or might not be, it's bloody expensive; how bout -1 Inspiration +1 Telling Time

How bout another sweeper ? -1 Titan's Presence +1 Aligned Hedron Network vs rampdecks. Hits Gaea and Crusher. Kindof a nonbo with your own guys, but it might be necessary, unsure.

Disciple of the Ring seems like it could be great here too. -1 Ulamog's Despoiler perhaps?
I personally prefer Ruin Processor over Ulamog's Despoiler.

Anyway, have fun with it :)


I don't feel it's very important to be playing Sludge Crawler on turn 1 and Languish shouldn't be needed on turn 4 because you'll have countered on turns 2 and/or 3, hopefully. I've only ran it 6 games and my rank is only at 10 right now so hard to judge the decks strength. But in those 6 games having swamps was never an issue. I don't like Telling Time because I want actual card advantage, through draw. It might be okay though, I can try. I'd rather not remove counter spells from the deck because they are really the core of the entire thing. Without them, consistently every game, decks will just roll over you. Aligned Hedron Network seems like it has potential, but when I look at it I can't help but see a dead card. Disciple of the Ring I may have over looked... Ruin Processor seems good too.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:09 am 
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I'm not sure Aligned Hedron Network is anything but a huge stinker, and it's true that Titan's presence works GREAT in this deck, I just offered it up as an out for a T5 gaea's revenge, rampdecks are Really Popular. normally you should be able to at least counter 1 of their ramp spells but that still means it's coming down t6. Still not end of the world since our dudes actually trade with it.
Anyway, you're probably right on that count.

So, the land situation, where I have to insist:

you don't NEED to play crawler t1, but you want to.
It frees up t2 awry/teling time/pump crawler. Sure you could play it on T2, but honestly, what does it cost you to add more swamps? Only dropping the likelihood for t3 Scatter the Winds. But that's acceptable since you have 3 Titan's presence and 4 Spell Shrivel.
Languish on Curve is really really important to maximize. T1 Goblin, T2 Dragon fodder T3 Bloodlust + Titan's Strength , you are at 7 life.
Oh and it doesn't have to be regular swamps. You could slip a mortuary mire in there to reuse a nullifier :)

Lastly 24 land even with 4 inspiration and 2 herder is NOT enough to cast Ulamog. I went up to 25 (1 of which is mortuary mire)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:38 am 
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The thing about Languish on turn 4, if my opponent has a nut draw like that, I don't even feel bad taking a loss. The likelihood of them having that hand is fairly low, and me having one of my languishes at the time is even lower. Honestly, even if you languish that draw, you're probably still gonna lose from the beating you took the last 2-3 turns. Oh well, can't win them all. But even this deck can do fine versus an opener like that and not even need a languish for it. As long as you're not just passing turns waiting to languish. There's plenty of other cards to play that could disrupt them instead of just being at 7 life.

I don't really see how 1 land makes Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger go from unplayable to playable all the sudden... I have already played him twice in 6 games. Both times my opponent immediately conceded. Although in both those games I think I played Oblivion Sower as well. :D


Last edited by Eriatarka on Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:37 am 
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I agree that that goblin hand would probably see you dead anyway unless you can get to ruin processor in time; however there are alot of slightly less optimal aggro hands of various decks that would get stopped cold from T4 languish. Actually T4 Languish needs 18 black to be almost a given. T5 languish needs 16 to be in the 90%. How long are you gonna wait when you have 12 black ? Turn 8 ? With 2 telling time and 10x Island 10x Swamp 2x Sunken Hollow, 2x Drowned Catacomb, 1x Mortuary mire, we have 16 black and 15 blue.


I didn't say Newlamog was stone cold unplayable at 24, but you have 7 5+ drops in a deck that wants to be holding mana up. Adding a mortuary mire is most definately not a bad idea. Telling time smoothing your draws is the same; you give up 1 counter (the worst one), and 1 drawspell. I already recouped the card advantage lost from inspiration by the mire.
If we count telling time as half a land and inspiration as 1/3d, and Sower as 1.5 (average expected score of sower) we have +- 28 land in deck to cast Ulamog. Herders are nice but it's really ideal scenario to have those scions ramp into Ulamog. Cast Herder, Titan's Presence or Spell Shrivel on their turn seems way more likely.

I'm not attacking you or your deck man. I'm trying to tighten it since I like the elegant nature of it.


Last edited by Goblin Rabblemaster on Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:54 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:46 am 
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I didn't feel you were attacking me or the deck, but sorry if you had. I'm just trying to understand! I have my opinions and I know I'm not always right so I try to explain things. If not for you then for me I guess. Knowledge is power.

Here's my logic on the lands. with 12 swamps, by turn 8, starting with 7 cards, that's 15 cards. 1/4 the deck, if the deck is spread evenly, I should draw 3 black sources by then, no? and I only need 2?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:09 am 
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If the deck is spread evenly. Unfortunately, there are a great number of permutations where your deck is not spread evenly. I sent you a PM with more details.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:58 am 
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Alright so took your advice on pretty much everything. :D

-2 Island
-1 Mist Intruder
-1 Horribly Awry
-2 Inspiration

+2 Swamp
+1 Mortuary Mire
+3 Telling Time

I'll probably end up switching to the healing eldrazi too after I start losing some games... lol I do love 9/9 on turn 6 though


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:17 am 
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Noone said you should chance your deck cuzz I said so; when i'm testing stuff out I'll change cards very gradually. hf :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:42 pm 
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Making Dimir Beatdown, still tweaking, but here's a funny pic from last 5 matches online (4/1, lost 1 game where I played like an idiot)

Eldrazi? Who needs Eldrazi ?

Spoiler


WIP list:

Dark Depths

1 x Vampiric rites
3 x Sludge Crawler
3 x Bone Splinters

4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Carrier Thrall

4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Flehsbag Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk
3 x Spell Shrivel

3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Smothering Abomination

2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
1 x Drowner of Hope

6 x Island
6 x Swamp
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
1 x Mortuary Mire
3 x Foundry of the consuls
4 x dimir guildgate


Dat curve ....

Current state since previous edit : -1 sludge crawler +1 Vampiric Rites -2 Altar's reap +1 Bone Splinters +1 swamp


Last edited by Goblin Rabblemaster on Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:54 am, edited 11 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:50 pm 
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Making Dimir Beatdown, still tweaking, but here'sa funny pick from last 5 matches online (4/1, lost 1 in a game where I played like an idiot)

Eldrazi? Who needs eldrazi ?

Spoiler


That's livin' large dude.

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My YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielCovertGoBlueWagner

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Making Dimir Beatdown, still tweaking, but here's a funny pic from last 5 matches online (4/1, lost 1 game where I played like an idiot)

Eldrazi? Who needs Eldrazi ?

Spoiler


WIP list:

Dark Depths

2 x Sludge Crawler
2 x Salvage Drone
2 x Bone Splinters

4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Carrier Thrall
2 x Altar's Reap

4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 x Graveblade Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Spell Shrivel

3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Smothering Abomination
1 x Ulamog's Nullifier

2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
1 x Drowner of Hope

8 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
1 x Mortuary Mire
3 x Evolving Wilds
1 x Rogue's Passage


Dat curve ....



Nice deck! only changed +2 Sludge Crawler -2 Salvage Drone


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:15 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase

Eldrazi? Who needs Eldrazi ?

Spoiler



I just went (past Ulamog) with my 20/20 unblockable Husk too haha

Ey,guize. Some time lurker, just want to share this one...Dimirdrange? Doing pretty well, can swap between control and beatdown in a wink...also, nobody expect poor Mindsweeper anymore, and with all the Eldrazi around...hehe

I'm trying a 2º Sigil, surprisingly...it's silly with a bunch of thopters, and some husk, Jorubai, marauder or Zoa...huge life gain too

You know the rest: willbreaker/jorubai + husk to lock, zoa/vial, chief as surprise sex, willbreaker/vials/jace, Alhammaret then Languish then Whirler/Foundrys (Zoa's get out of Languish, of course...or you can save the Chief with them, Husks pass too etc) whirler/foundry + husk (+sigil +jorubai...you get the idea) ...or if thopters don't appear, Husk + hitting sigilized marauder (sacrifice everything right after damage is done) many times is a winner

The Networks help all this a lot, are pretty easy to activate, and the drawing tends to get really nice, Telling Time a must in a semi-combish deck like this.

In fact, I like it because it can get a rush with the Whirlers, Zoas or Husk...or develope the field with the Networks till bombing Al, or go almost full control, depending on the draw and the situation...and people usually don't know how to play against, for example in that match I started the post with, Ulamog went for a Network and a Zoa (sigilized, so it WAS a fatal threat) but forgot to kill at least my husk OR my whirler...bang!


2 x Bone Splinters

3 x Perilous Myr
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Reave Soul
2 x Telling Time
1 x Shadows of the Past
2 x Alchemist's Vial
2 x Sigil of Valor

2 x Jorubai Murk Lurker
2 x Graveblade Marauder
2 x Fleshbag Marauder
2 x Nantuko Husk
1 x Read the Bones
2 x Esperzoa
1 x Chief of the Foundry

1 x Languish
2 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Whirler Rogue

1 x Willbreaker

2 x Alhammaret, High Arbiter

9 x Island
8 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Foundry of the Consuls


Try it, srly...fun, fun, fun... :)


Last edited by callmemaggit on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:24 pm 
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Nice, from 4 to 13 in a row, most of them quite overwhelming...

(Sorry for the doublepost, I'll refrain, promise)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:08 pm 
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13-0?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:28 pm 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
13-0?


Nope, 9-0 :)

Now, I have taken a couple of hits...against a dream RDW hand, its turn and flipping Chandra turn 3 with a couple of Chasers...I don't know if that opening is even manageable, lol

And against Gruulramp (technically Temur, but only blue I saw was Jace) 2 huntbeasts, 2 gaeas and one plated...sigh...I played bad, trying to control instead of going full agro, wasted a lot of hit points in Nissa and Jace...but I don't know if could have survived the beating even playing well...probably the worst match up for the deck?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:22 pm 
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All right, since I'm crazy and I like our blogger over there, I ran some games with this.

I stopped playing after going 2/3, and I don't plan on putting up a FULL writeup, so y'all just have to wing it and Take My Word for it.

I think this could be a very rewarding deck to play. It's basically a value deck. You don't get value from your plays unless you work for it, but Oh so delicously slowly, their hand empties, whilst you chip away. It's a great idea, extremely satisfying when you get to go off cycling ingest triggers and legacy level weenies.

Now for reality

VS ramp: Ingest is hard to push through because of chumps. Sludgecrawler T1 on the play does work. On the draw it loses alot of value. Sure you can kill a vine by pumping, but after ramp; even if you counter their moss/5drop, you still have 1 power on the board, and T4 you are in a pickle. Your nullifier don't work yet, you just spent your shrivel, and you basically have no good proactive play. You topdecked another 1/1. You are gonna lose the game. The end. Managed to get a black/green drazi deck down to 4 thanks to winnowers, threatening lethal, but he just drew Ulamog and killed me with twins.
VS Aggro, if you have Balls of Steel; you can try and take apart RDW piece by piece and just swing your crawler into their magering bully. You have the perfect tools for it. I still think RDW is just so consistent that it has a slight upper hand, I had one extremely close loss vs rdw on (being on the draw) where he had to Have It and I Had to Whiff on land 7. That was a fun game.
VS Mid range: This is where this deck should shine. Unfortunately, mid- range represents about 0,000005 pc of the meta. I absolutely dismantled a gruul monsters deck through ingest payoff and HEADOLOGY.

I tried putting in some altar's reaps over an awry and a disregard so that I could push a bit harder and keep trucking after a sweep, or loot 3 times after topdecking a drone. I tried even putting in the Ingest Grizzly bear (over a drone and jace, which even with reap, has no purpose here, besides as a wincon vs mid range) to have SOMETHING that puts a clock/ingest before I have to guard the board. I slotted in Sire of Stagnation, but ramp is at eleventy mana before I can drop him. I have had no success in making this into a winner.

Don't wanna sound too negative, sorry. I like the concept of the deck alot though.Feels a bit like MUD, in a strange way.


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