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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:38 pm 
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See, maybe you run on a different time frame than me, but evenings NA time has been very little swarm/aggro decks in the last few days at all, it's almost all control, or just mid-range stompy things


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:49 pm 
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I play the same time usually. It could just be that I am seeing the swarm decks mostly. I haven't had too much issue with the control/mid-range I have played against...it could be that my opponents just aren't that good or I am getting lucky?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Could be. It was only a 10-game sample,so it could just be sample size. I just don't have time to test everything at 30+ games each. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:14 pm 
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I hear that, man...I just play 3 decks mainly, as I pretty well suck at straight aggro. Control and midrange are what I am good with.

Update: Now 9-2 with Experiment 1. Two loses to a B/R deck and from a Boros Token deck with a Flinged Seraph of the Masses when I let my life total go too far down.

Won with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth once and got the Infinite-Turn Combo once. The Palisade Giant/Aegis Angel shuts down sooo many decks. Played two control decks, neither piloted well, so they were easier than I think they should've been.

Overall, a much more consistent deck than my first couple of tries and way more fun!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:14 pm 
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How can one suck at aggro? It's almost as straight forward as it can possibly get!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Pretty much get bored and make mistakes. I actually can play it well, but I make mistakes oft times.

Selesnya Tokens is about the only straight aggro I play right now...and I win way more than I love with it.

Anyways, for those who may be interested, Experiment 1 is now 14-6, had 4 really bad games in a row yesterday, got Time Warped to death against a U/R deck with the Charmbreaker Devils in one game...didn't mind lose that one, that was kinda amusing.

I am seeing a lot more control out there, making combo decks like this one roll over a die a little bit. Probably time to pull out the mid-range/Selesnya decks for a while...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Control piles are far more frequent than previously but I still see tons of Goblin variations in the evenings.

I took Mobius' U/R out for a spin last night and ended up playing the same Goblins abuser guy 3 times in a row. Won 2 of the 3. Come to think of it everyone I played last night ran goblins except two players who both ran B/G Graveyard spider builds.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:35 pm 
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So here's the best mill deck I could possibly muster. It works very well, only problem is that you will get randomly destroyed by Elixir of Immortality, Kozilek, Butcher of truth or Skullcrack which happens way more often than you would think.

Deck: Turbofog

3 x Hedron Crab
3 x Archaeomancer

4 x Fog
4 x Hysterical Blindness
4 x Safe Passage
2 x Planar Cleansing
4 x Think Twice
4 x Inspiration
4 x Thassa's Bounty
1 x Dissolve
1 x Elixir of Immortality
3 x Millstone

4 x Selesnya Guildgate
4 x Simic Guilgate
4 x Azorius Guildgate
7 x Island
2 x Plains
2 x Forest

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:12 am 
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Bob, why not cut the millstone for sphinx bone wand and kozilek?? You'll have more wincons that way..

I actually ran the hedron crabs for a while in my fogger build when I ran it at 21 lands. It was really great at milling. I cut it when I rose the lands up to 24 but then I lowered them back down to 22.. I think maybe I should try running the crabs for a bit again. Having that mill did help win a few matches during that period

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:18 am 
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2bestest wrote:
Bob, why not cut the millstone for sphinx bone wand and kozilek?? You'll have more wincons that way..

I actually ran the hedron crabs for a while in my fogger build when I ran it at 21 lands. It was really great at milling. I cut it when I rose the lands up to 24 but then I lowered them back down to 22.. I think maybe I should try running the crabs for a bit again. Having that mill did help win a few matches during that period


Yeah, i was actually thinking for swapping Elixir of Immortality for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, they both accomplish the same thing, except one gains you 5 life (which I may not even need). The other is a good alt-win con. Sphinx's Bonewand is not a bad suggestion either, I'll consider it. I think I need some more Dissolves in the deck.

The idea was to try to make mill as competitive as possible so I could have a mill deck in my collection. I don't like the one shot mill cards to much like Tome Scour and Such, continuous mill is a lot better, especially when the game drags out as long as possible the way fog decks do. I find I might have a bit too much card draw, so I think a few of those will be the first to go. Probably a couple of Thassa's Bounty first. So something like:

Elixir of Immortality ----> Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

2 Thassa's Bounty ----> 2 Dissolve

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:59 am 
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Iceberg Swarm

4 Plains
4 Island
4 Forest
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Simic Guildgate


3 x Reprisal (added for Large creature removal)
4 x Raise the Alarm
2 x Mentor of the Meek
2 x Phantom General
2 x Angelic Edict(added for enchant removal and creature removal)
4 x Triplicate Spirits
2 x Seraph of the Masses


2 x Chasm Skulker(Death triggers double tokens with Doubling Season)
2 x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 x Bident of Thassa


3 x Jade Mage
4 x Elvish Visionary(added for early draw and token making with triplicate)
2 x Doubling Season

1 x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

2 x Selesnya Evangel

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Last edited by Shadowcran on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Cool deck, Shadowcran! I like what it does to break away from the basic Green/White token swarm. But I found myself really missing any kind of removal, in just about all my matches. It was also hard to get a lot of tokens to set-up Selesnya Evangel, and that made it hard to stall to the late game for Jade Mage.

For this deck, I recommend adding more Triplicate Spirits since they are really not so hard to get out. It would also proc Talrand more often. The Bident was sometimes overkill, but I can see the utility.

I wonder why you run Scion of the Wilds over Seraph of the Masses. Is it to give you more cards to tap with the Evangel, or to help your early game? I found it difficult to push damage through with him. It was easier to go wide with my tokens then Bident, chump, and then attack with a significantly weaker Scion anyways.


I hope you don't mind, but I really wanted to splash red to this deck. I've tweaked it and put it into the Ink-Treader thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Bob as you said yourself though, a number of builds run Kozilek. That totally ruins mill. Having the second wincon in the bone wand could GREATLY help. I know it HUGELY rose my win percentages once I added it to my fogger build. (Which is very similar to your mill build here :P) You kind of make me want to inclue dissolves or negates though.. as there are a few spells that really muff up my fogger deck. Being able to counter those at crucial times could be VERY helpful.

I may bust out the deck again.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:21 am 
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Thanks for giving me the idea to run a turbo fog deck, I just had most fun match I have had in a while. Basically I did the unthinkable and took it to a 4FFA game with no friends to help me out. 2 decks where B/G sprider/reanimator with Rune-Scarred Demons, Pelakka Wurms, Indulgent Tormentor, Nemesis of Mortals, Griselbrand, Arbor Colossus, Soul of Zendikar and even the butcher himself. :eek: The third deck was a W/G token deck that casted 3 Seraph of the Masses two of which reached well over 20+/20+, several Phantom General and what seemed like infinite amount of tokens, if that wasn't bad enough 2 of those decks managed to fully trigger a 3 beastmaster ascension. :takei: Needless to say I was in waaaaaaaaay over my head running this type of deck in a game like that. During the game my entire board consisted of just 2 Archaeomancer. LOL I repelled alpha damage so many times that one of them simply said "he is indestructible" after attacking me almost every turn. lol Anyways, the board was so bloated with creatures that eventually one of the players chipped away all of the tokens from the W/G deck and managed to kill him. Clever use fogs, Quicken into Planar Cleansing and negate won me temporary alliances by making sure they survived alpha damage. Eventually, I managed to manipulate the last two players into killing themselves. By the time there was only one player left he only had 4 cards left in his deck and basically committed seppaku with Griselbrand knowing he would get milled before getting past my fogs. Lol Hilarious, I just had to share that.


Last edited by HARBiNG3R on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:46 am 
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Overmaster wrote:
Cool deck, Shadowcran! I like what it does to break away from the basic Green/White token swarm. But I found myself really missing any kind of removal, in just about all my matches. It was also hard to get a lot of tokens to set-up Selesnya Evangel, and that made it hard to stall to the late game for Jade Mage.

For this deck, I recommend adding more Triplicate Spirits since they are really not so hard to get out. It would also proc Talrand more often. The Bident was sometimes overkill, but I can see the utility.

I wonder why you run Scion of the Wilds over Seraph of the Masses. Is it to give you more cards to tap with the Evangel, or to help your early game? I found it difficult to push damage through with him. It was easier to go wide with my tokens then Bident, chump, and then attack with a significantly weaker Scion anyways.


I hope you don't mind, but I really wanted to splash red to this deck. I've tweaked it and put it into the Ink-Treader thread.

Red for Krenko's Command? or shock?
I would recommend Seraph over Scion for anyone else but me. I have terrible luck with them. I end up always with both in my hand early..most times on opening draw(yeah, I only use 2). I don't understand why this is but it's EVERY time.....screw it. it's the wiser choice, so I'm adding it.
If anything we should find a way to work fog into the deck rather than removal OR we work out safe passages and put in white removal or blue bounce.
Jade Mage tends to be the star as far as token making. She's the one you want early on. I'd been thinking of taking out 2 of the Selesnya Evangel and adding in 2 more triplicate. Let me see what I can do. Check the deck post above to see what I change.

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If You get an aggro player to stop attacking, you've got the match won.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:06 am 
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Yeah, turbo fog is fun and different. I never bothered to take it to a 4ffa yet because fog is until end of turn.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:41 am 
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HARBiNG3R wrote:
Thanks for giving me the idea to run a turbo fog deck, I just had most fun match I have had in a while. Basically I did the unthinkable and took it to a 4FFA game with no friends to help me out. 2 decks where B/G sprider/reanimator with Rune-Scarred Demons, Pelakka Wurms, Indulgent Tormentor, Nemesis of Mortals, Griselbrand, Arbor Colossus, Soul of Zendikar and even the butcher himself. :eek: The third deck was a W/G token deck that casted 3 Seraph of the Masses two of which reached well over 20+/20+, several Phantom General and what seemed like infinite amount of tokens, if that wasn't bad enough 2 of those decks managed to fully trigger a 3 beastmaster ascension. :takei: Needless to say I was in waaaaaaaaay over my head running this type of deck in a game like that. During the game my entire board consisted of just 2 Archaeomancer. LOL I repelled alpha damage so many times that one of them simply said "he is indestructible" after attacking me almost every turn. lol anyways, the board was so bloated with creatures that eventually one for the players chipped away all of the tokens from the W/G deck and managed to kill him. Clever use fogs, Quicken into Planar Cleansing and negate won me temporary alliances by making sure they survived alpha damaged. Eventually, I managed to manipulate the last two players into killing themselves. By the time there was only one player left he only had 4 cards left in his deck and basically committed seppaku with Griselbrand knowing he would get milled before getting past my fogs. Lol Hilarious, I just had to share that.



haha yeah, I love the fog deck in multiplayer, they tend to discourage people from wasting their attacks on you, just to get attacked by someone else after. Alot of people look at your board and feel sorry for you and leave you alone, but little do they realize that all your threats are in your hand. :)

Meanwhile you just build up cards and get a grip of 7 fogs. I have to admit though fog decks can drain you rather quickly. I used to play turbofog in the jund standard era, I swear to you I used to get very ill from playing it in tournaments, to the point that I had to stop playing it.

So be warned for those planing to play fog, do so at your own risk....

EDIT: @ 2Best, I think I will give Sphinx Bonewand an official try, I'm juggling what should be cut, any ideas?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:56 am 
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Shadowcran wrote:
Overmaster wrote:
Cool deck, Shadowcran! I like what it does to break away from the basic Green/White token swarm. But I found myself really missing any kind of removal, in just about all my matches. It was also hard to get a lot of tokens to set-up Selesnya Evangel, and that made it hard to stall to the late game for Jade Mage.

For this deck, I recommend adding more Triplicate Spirits since they are really not so hard to get out. It would also proc Talrand more often. The Bident was sometimes overkill, but I can see the utility.

I wonder why you run Scion of the Wilds over Seraph of the Masses. Is it to give you more cards to tap with the Evangel, or to help your early game? I found it difficult to push damage through with him. It was easier to go wide with my tokens then Bident, chump, and then attack with a significantly weaker Scion anyways.


I hope you don't mind, but I really wanted to splash red to this deck. I've tweaked it and put it into the Ink-Treader thread.

Red for Krenko's Command? or shock?
I would recommend Seraph over Scion for anyone else but me. I have terrible luck with them. I end up always with both in my hand early..most times on opening draw(yeah, I only use 2). I don't understand why this is but it's EVERY time.....screw it. it's the wiser choice, so I'm adding it.
If anything we should find a way to work fog into the deck rather than removal OR we work out safe passages and put in white removal or blue bounce.
Jade Mage tends to be the star as far as token making. She's the one you want early on. I'd been thinking of taking out 2 of the Selesnya Evangel and adding in 2 more triplicate. Let me see what I can do. Check the deck post above to see what I change.

Both Krenko's Command and Shock, really. There have been a fair few problematic creatures I've really wanted to Shock but couldn't. If you're running red anyways, you better have Krenko's COmmand too.

I like the Selensya Evangel when it works, and even when it doesn't I like her for blocking. The problem is she rarely works out, because we don't run enough other early drops to tap and make tokens with. Unless you get lucky and draw into Raise the Alarm too, but that's a tall order!

Jade Mage is definitely great, being able to come in and make a token the very next turn. If your mana base can handle it, definitely run her. How do you feel on the Mentor of the Meek? I think card draw is one of our greatest assets, but I also find the Mentor to be just a little too mana-intensive. I can rarely afford to draw more than one extra card for one mana a turn off him, even later in the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 pm 
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Gift of Life v2.0 (Premium)
x4 Forest
x3 Island
x6 Plains
x4 Azorius Guildgate
x4 Selesnya Guildgate
x3 Simic Guildgate

x2 Elixir of Immortality
x4 Cloudshift
x4 Lone Missionary
x3 Quickling
x3 Wall of Omens
x2 Mentor of the Meek
x3 Darksteel Ingot
x2 Rhox Faithmender
x4 Saruli Gatekeepers
x3 Angelic Accord
x1 Baneslayer Angel
x3 Species Gorger
x2 Pelekka Wurm

So I decided to revisit this deck and alter some of the weaker points of it - personally I think I did a decent job at it. Main points of change;
Mentor of the Meek was added in place of other card draw options. With all the things being bounced it's a little more consistent on the draw and the deck tends to have more mana then it knows what to do with. Let's me use it for something.

Elixir of Immortality: I milled myself to death with this deck once. Not the only reason I run it but worth mentioning. Mostly it let's me recycle my Cloudshift and dead creatures as well as letting me trigger Angelic Accord on my opponents turn.

Rhox Faithmender: So this deck is all about lifegain. Why exactly didn't I run this before? Considering I often have to take hits over and over until Angelic Accord turns up I can use all the life points I can gain. Plus he's a 1/5 so he can take a beating without dying.

Baneslayer Angel: Another trigger for Angelic Accord and a decent way to actually attack outside of angel tokens. Not going to call it an alternate win-con since it's just one copy but hey every little helps - especially if that little is a 5/5 First Strike, Lifelink, Flying monster.

Cultivate: I honestly never really felt I needed them in the old deck. I'm not really ramping into anything and the colour requirements are pretty easy anyway. And there removal creates space for other junk!

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Last edited by Garren_Windspear on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:47 am 
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So I learned two things last night while playing turbo fog; Sphinx-Bone Wand + Archaeomancer + Cloudshift is a win condition and that Skullcrack will make you roll into the fetal position and cry.


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