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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:47 pm 
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Try running without the archaeomancers. I have a STRONG feeling you haven't tried so yet. I have extensive testing in this fog direction and archeomancers were important far less often than options I ran and run in their place.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:04 pm 
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I may try, but in all honesty, I am pretty commited to them. Being able to board wipe up to 6 times is essential to me, as is the ability to add another 4 fogs if needed. I've been playing with the deck for about a month before I posted it here and have been really hapy with them so far.

I'm really close to finalising my Jund build, and when I do I'll take another look at this as it'll be the only deck of the 17 I've built and use that I'll still have nagging doubts over parts of the build, so will be able to focus on it fully. It's tricky to playestest though seeing as games can last well over 30 minutes each!

EDIT - Finished testing the Jund deck, now on to this. Again, as games take so long, it may take a while to truly be able to gauge the impact of Visions. I'll recruit a friend who plays it quite a lot in Ranked to test the changes too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:18 am 
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Finished my Fog testing, and I've tried a number of combinations with and without Archaeomancer and the landcyclers in a number of quantities I even tried all 8 landcyclers), and I can't get them to work for me at all. Performance just fell off a cliff in most of the games.

In fact, it just gave me a greater appreciation of the value of Cultivate, so instead I've stripped another two lands and put in an additional Obelisk and Cultivate, giving me 21 lands.

Quite low, but with the amount of draw and ramp I have, it really doesn't stay an issue for any period of time. I may go back to 1 Obelisk and 22 lands, but other than that I can't see myself making any more changes. It has a few weaknesses against lifeloss and non-combat damage, but apart from that, it's a really strong deck.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:58 am 
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I typed up a long message and firefox crashed..

It summed up to:

I would question how large the sample size with the various changes REALLY was considering your last post was a day ago.. And if you factored in the types of decks you were vsing against in those times vs the times you had your previous build.

This archetype takes has LONG games.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:15 pm 
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About 20. And that's the point. These weren't long games, but short ones as I was getting my ass kicked. I lost the majority of them badly and quickly, and against archtypes I would normally hose. They just stall the deck far too much for my tastes. I also have a friend who likes to troll, so plays this deck a lot (far more than I do), and he was helping me test, so he put another 20 or so in and had the same issues.

As soon as I put the Cultivates back in, I was racking up wins instantly. I'm far more comfortable with this setup, and It's never given me bad results. Sure, it has a lot of issues with life loss and direct damage, but that's why the Archaeomancers are there - so you can get more uses from Safe Passage and Planar Cleansing, which are your only defences.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:40 pm 
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Why aren't these Fog decks splashing for Rune-Scarred Demons? I was going through the editor looking to build my own version and this guy sticks out like a sore thumb. He's extra copies of Kozilek, Planar Cleansing, Obelisk, and Wand on a 6/6 flying body. Is tapping out for him too risky?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Stevo I dunno why that is such an issue. Maybe the combinations you went with. I generally always ran the 3 walls and 4 visionary in my builds to ensure early blocks while cantripping themselves.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:47 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Why aren't these Fog decks splashing for Rune-Scarred Demons? I was going through the editor looking to build my own version and this guy sticks out like a sore thumb. He's extra copies of Kozilek, Planar Cleansing, Obelisk, and Wand on a 6/6 flying body. Is tapping out for him too risky?


Yes. The body doesn't matter, The Wand is the win-con. Even Kozilek rarely wins games because they've got so much removal and so many blockers backed up they can usually kill almost anything you play. Kozilek is mainly utility - draw and reshuffle.

The Demon could be played as utility, sure, but he's a 7 mana creature that requires two non-native colours. It's already a strain to play a Wand and survive the next turn, but to cast this to fetch a Wand would be suicide. And the mana base needed for that double black would ruin the consistency.

Incidentally, my friend Thermal just played a game against a Sultai reanimator deck with it's own Kozielk causing reshuffles, Pelakka Wurms giving life, Rune-Scarred Demons fetching answers and Reclamation Sages destroying Wands, over and over and over. He won just shy of the two hour mark! And the opponent had the nerve to quit on lethal after such an epic game!

Be prepared for long games. Inevitable wins, but wins that take you forever to push through. Those of a trollish sensibility should enjoy a win like that though. I know Thermal did!

If I did put a Black card in it would be a single Suffer the Past. It'd stop things like that causing you issues, would act as another win-con (eventually) and for combo purposes could eliminate Cultivates and other less wanted cards such from your own graveyard pre-reshuffle (Blindness decays in value...), so your redraws would be super consistent.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:12 am 
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My fondest memory of fog deck was winning a 4 FFA and not once did I do damage to any of the opponents. I manipulated the board to make sure they would kill each other to the point that the last opponent alive would deck himself. Acknowledging I had helped him win and knowing full well how I conspired for him to win and eventually lose to me he in the end committing seppaku with Griselbrand. Good times.


Last edited by HARBiNG3R on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:52 pm 
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I beat a sac/steal deck with this yesterday, which is just a brutal matchup for that archetype, and that too ended with a form of suicide.

My wincons were quite deep in the deck, so the game lasted a bit, but I was in total control. With about 10 cards left in my deck I played my first Wand and discarded Kozilek with my Obelisk to reshuffle (no point playing him against a Treason deck...) My opponent had no permanents due to multiple wipes, but had 7 cards in hand.

On his turn he drew to 8 and hit himself intentionally with Monomania, then quit, discarding nothing but Act of Treasons, Portent of Betrayals and Blood Feuds. Poor guy! There was no point hitting me with Monomania as I had 3 unused Courier's Capsules on the board that I hadn't sacced as I didn't need to and didn't want to overdraw, so would have just instantly replenished my hand. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:16 am 
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The Bant Exalted deck I have been screwing around with on and off.

[manapie 90 w u -b -r g][/manapie]

Bant Exalted

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (27 :creature: , 9 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 10 cards
■■■■
Akrasan Squire1/1
■■■■
Spire Tracer1/1
■■■■
Gods Willing
Cost 13 cards
■■■
Knight of the Skyward Eye2/2
■■■
Sigiled Paladin2/2
■■■■
Wandering Wolf2/1
■■■
Sigil Blessing
Cost 4 cards
Brimaz, King of Oreskos3/4
■■■
Rhox War Monk3/4
Cost 4 cards
Rafiq of the Many3/3
■■■
Skymark Roc3/3
Cost 5 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■
Battlegrace Angel4/4
■■
Hunter's Prowess
Land24 cards
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
■■■
Simic Guildgate
5
Forest
2
Island
5
Plains


Wandering Wolf is criminally underrated alongside Exalted.

With 1 exalted creature on the table Wandering Wolf becomes a Lightning Bolt to the face every turn until your opponent either removes it, or puts something onto the table with 3 power or more which doesn't often happen until at least T4 or later. With multiple Exalted creatures and/or pump spells making them potentially unblockable even against some of the bigger fatties.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:02 pm 
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That's pretty smart Eon.. nice.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Hello Everyone!

For a few days I've played Mobius' Azorius Combo deck and I really had fun with it, but decided that it has some flaws. I mutated it into a Jeskai deck but still wasn't happy with it even though I tried Inferno Titan, Anger of the Gods, Stormbreath Dragon, Banefire, Charmbreaker Devils and Resounding Thunder. The deck just didn't flow...

Then I decided that I should make it a Bant Combo Deck instead of Jeskai and it was a brilliant idea (so humble!). I've played this deck for a few days to fine tune it and test how strong, resilient and versatile it is and I'm having a blast playing it.
Here's the deck:

[manapie 90 w u -b -r g][/manapie]

ABCD - Auunj's Bant Combo Deck

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (21 :creature: , 15 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Cloudshift
Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■
Wall of Omens0/4
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■
Mentor of the Meek2/2
■■■■
Cultivate
■■
Dissolve
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Archaeomancer1/2
■■
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
Cost 4 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■■
Switcheroo
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Sphinx-Bone Wand
Land24 cards
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
5
Forest
4
Island
4
Plains


The deck has a ton of synergy and the main win cons are Pelakka Wurm, Sphinx-Bone Wand and Talrand, Sky Summoner.

The cards explained:
Cloudshift - main combo part with Archaeomancer, recurring dmg with Wand, tokens with Talrand, creature protection, life gain with Pelakka, more card draw with Elvish Visionary and Wall of Omens which combo with Mentor of the Meek
Wall of Omens - stall, card draw, combo element with Mentor of the Meek and Cloudshift
Mentor of the Meek - sometimes draws 5+ cards a turn because of Cloudshift + Archaeomancer and you can support it thanks to Cultivate
Baneslayer Angel - can't run a white deck without it
Guard Gomazoa - aggro killer, great staller, saves the day vs Baneslayer Angel and other huge fliers like Stormbreath Dragon, good Switcheroo fodder
Dissolve - to protect your winning board state and you have the mana to support it
Talrand, Sky Summoner - comboes with Archaeomancer and Cloudshift for a ton of 2/2 flying tokens
Archaeomancer - combo element with Cloudshift can also bring back other spells if needed
Switcheroo - why remove/exile an enemy creature when you can keep it? Great card, especially that I have a lot of fodder with Elvish Visionary, Wall of Omens or even Guard Gomazoa if needed
Elvish Visionary - card draw, additional card draw with Mentor of the Meek and Cloudshift + another staller vs aggro decks
Cultivate - deck thinning, adds speed, triggers Sphinx-Bone Wand and Talrand, Sky Summoner and allows to do a lot of stuff in 1 round later in the game
Pelakka Wurm - great body, trample, lifegain, card draw and can be Cloudshifted for even more life or protection. Sometimes helps to stabilize vs aggro decks.
Sphinx-Bone Wand - main win condition. Just recurr Archaeomancer with Cloudshift and wipe whatever you want from the board or just do direct damage to the other player. The damage ramps up, so it's usually gg withing the next 2 rounds you cast SBW.

The deck is very versatile as it stalls great vs aggro, ramps a lot, has great blockers, Switcheroo vs huge threats, Dissolve vs wipes and a few different win cons. Additionally it draws cards like crazy, so you almost always have something interesting to do.

+ people get frustrated when you start recurring your Archaeomancer with Sphinx-Bone Wand out ;)

Any opinions or tips are welcome as always!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:58 pm 
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I'm considering dropping 2x Talrand, Sky Summoner for the 4th Archaeomancer and 3rd Dissolve. I usually just wall in and wait till I can drop Sphinx-Bone Wand and just combo Archaeomancer.

Is it worth dropping Talrand, Sky Summoner? Or should I maybe keep 1 copy of Talrand, Sky Summoner and add the 3rd Dissolve or the 4th Archaeomancer?

I sometimes just keep Baneslayer Angel in hand and don't cast it cuz I can stall and defend till I get my pieces together and don't need it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 pm 
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Going to one Talrand should be fine, he's Legendary after all and the Wand is the main wincon. I'd like to see Kozilek (if only for the reshuffle effect). I also don't like Switcheroo and would rather just play Angelic Edict for five mana removal. I'm not sure you need Cultivate.

I hear you on Baneslayer, but she's too good. Perhaps you could also play War Monks? They totally brick aggro decks for just three mana.

-4 Cultivate
-1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
-3 Switcheroo

+3 Rhox War Monk
+1 Dissolve
+1 Archaeomancer
+2 Angelic Edict
+1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

I'm just spitballing here, really, but I like the idea of going into Bant.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:45 pm 
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For now I did:

-1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
+1 Dissolve

(also running another deck with -2 Talrand, +1 dissolve and +1 Archaeomancer for testing)

as I feel I don't really need either Talrand nor the tokens he generates to win the game.

Cultivate might be obsolete, but it thins and speeds up the deck + it's minor, but it triggers Sphinx-Bone Wand It's useful especially with all the card draw and recurrence of Archaeomancer, the expensive draw of Mentor of the Meek and the 7 cmc of Pelakka Wurm. It would be also helpful when considering running Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Why don't you like Switcheroo in this deck? It's basically another wincon and you have lots of fodder to give to the enemy. Why Angelic Edict a threat, when you can just use it yourself?
Rhox War Monk is a beast vs aggro, but so far Elvish Visionary, Wall of Omens and Guard Gomazoa took care of it. Gomazoa's advantage over War Monk is flying and absorption, other then that, War Monk could give some offensive pressure to the deck.

So far the deck runs extremely smooth, but it would be really helpful if I could get someone else's opinion. As I said in another topic, I'd be stupid not to take your opinion into account, so I'll test your changes, but so far I really like the decks flow. Let's hope it gets better ;) the only change I can't get behind is the removal of Switcheroo it really saved my ass a few times.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:07 pm 
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We can debate theory all day, but nothing trumps results. When I spit out some theory like that it's really just to see if anything resonates with your actual experience piloting the deck. If it doesn't, then it's all good.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:46 pm 
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After more testing:

-4 Cultivate
+3 Rhox War Monk
-1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
+1 Dissolve
+1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Testing results: Rhox War Monk is great in this deck, delays the aggro and even mid range decks. I didn't get Kozilek, Butcher of Truth yet, so can't say anything about him.
Cultivate isn't really needed with 4x Elvish Visionary and 3x Wall of Omens + Cloudshift + Mentor of the Meek.

Rhox War Monk is a great addition indeed.
I really, really love Switcheroo in this deck. It's an insane card every time I have it in hand and an opponent casts something huge like Baneslayer Angel (finished last game with 2 on my side ;) ). So the option of replacing it with Angelic Edict doesn't really convince me. As I said, imho, it's better to use an opponents threat to one's advantage then to remove it :)

The deck I'm playing now:

[manapie 90 w u -b -r g][/manapie]

ABC - Auunj's Bant Combo

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 12 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Cloudshift
Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■
Wall of Omens0/4
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■
Mentor of the Meek2/2
■■■
Rhox War Monk3/4
■■■
Dissolve
Cost 4 cards
■■■
Archaeomancer1/2
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
Cost 4 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■■
Switcheroo
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Sphinx-Bone Wand
Cost 1 card
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth12/12
Land24 cards
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
5
Forest
4
Island
4
Plains


If Kozilek, Butcher of Truth won't perform, then I'll add the 4th Archaeomancer or the 2nd Talrand, Sky Summoner as he performed great last game vs a Angelic Accord deck. It might be because the removal of Cultivate slowed the deck down a bit. On the other hand the addition Rhox War Monk made it even stronger.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:56 pm 
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You definitely want four Archaeomancers because it gives you so much freedom to Cloudshift an early Wall of Omens and get way ahead. If you want to combo off then include all of the combo pieces! :)

Cut a Switcheroo, then drop the other two for Edicts. Seriously, Angelic Edict exiles creatures (like opposing Kozileks) and has the upside of hitting enchantments and can be cast if you have an empty board. Switcheroo can be countered by Vapor Snag on your creature, which is a huge blowout (you tap five mana, lose one life, discard a card, and lose next turn).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:10 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
You definitely want four Archaeomancers because it gives you so much freedom to Cloudshift an early Wall of Omens and get way ahead. If you want to combo off then include all of the combo pieces! :)

Cut a Switcheroo, then drop the other two for Edicts. Seriously, Angelic Edict exiles creatures (like opposing Kozileks) and has the upside of hitting enchantments and can be cast if you have an empty board. Switcheroo can be countered by Vapor Snag on your creature, which is a huge blowout (you tap five mana, lose one life, discard a card, and lose next turn).


That's a logical reasoning that gets to me.

I had great results with the initial deck which was extremely fast and had a lot of draw.
The 2nd edition with Rhox War Monk was a tiny bit slower but even stronger and more resilient.

I'll test this one tomorrow (today afternoon) as it's 2 am here in Europe. To be honest, this deck looks great now.

[manapie 90 w u -b -r g][/manapie]

Bant Combo v3

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (25 :creature: , 11 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Cloudshift
Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■
Wall of Omens0/4
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■
Mentor of the Meek2/2
■■■
Rhox War Monk3/4
■■■
Dissolve
Cost 5 cards
■■■■
Archaeomancer1/2
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
Cost 3 cards
Baneslayer Angel5/5
■■■■
Angelic Edict
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Sphinx-Bone Wand
Cost 1 card
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth12/12
Land24 cards
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
5
Forest
4
Island
4
Plains


I do hope that I'm not spamming to much.


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