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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:17 am 
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While not quite as bad as Mindstorms, this deck is still a difficult one to feel good about once you've closed that deck manager. There are a lot of pieces in here that suggest an exalted aggro theme, but there are a lot of good control cards in here as well. Since the deck has no real way to generate direct card advantage, I'm going to go the exalted aggro route and try to win before I run myself out of cards.

[1v1] "Exalted Aggro"
A library for the Nefarox 2013 deck (Exalted Darkness)
60 Cards. 35 nonlands (25 creatures, 10 spells). 25 Lands (12 8; 5 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 1x Cathedral of War
-- 4x Evolving Wilds
cost  
-- 4x Duty-Bound Dead
cost  
-- 4x Aven Squire
-- 2x Child of Night
-- 2x Darklit Gargoyle
-- 3x Knight of Glory
-- 2x Knight of Infamy
-- 1x Demonic Tutor
cost  
-- 1x Royal Assassin
-- 1x Mortify
-- 3x Unmake
-- 2x Vindicate
-- 1x Whispersilk Cloak
cost  
-- 2x Silent Arbiter
-- 1x Sublime Archangel
-- 1x Worship
cost  
-- 2x Deathbringer Liege
-- 2x Divinity of Pride
cost  
-- 1x Debtors' Knell

The plan is to drop a bunch of exalted guys early and start swinging for huge chunks. All the early drops either have exalted or attack well because of it; Darklit Gargoyle is a beating and Child of Night's lifelink is relevant because this deck basically doesn't block.

I've included one Cathedral of War because I want to run 25 land here and that's the only way I can do it; it's a bit annoying with Unmake and Divinity of Pride, but as a singleton it doesn't come up too often.

I like the Whispersilk Cloak but it isn't a card you want to see multiples of so I've only included one.

The card that you probably think stands out from the rest is the Debtor's Knell; a seven-mana enchantment that doesn't impact the board hardly seems to fit in an aggressive deck, but this build dies pretty hard to mass removal so it's nice to have an out to recover in the games where everything just dies.

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:51 am 
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My main thought about this build is what I usually think about your builds, I just like 1 drops more than you.
I would prefer akrasan squire over aven squire. I think you have enough designated attackers, swinging for 3 on turn 2 is a great option. and even if you terramorphic on turn 1, inserting 2 exalted dudes on turn 3 instead of 1 can make the difference.
other than that, I like the build. Most black decks uses discards, or have good non-black targets, so I would consider using doom blade, it is cheaper the unmake, works better with cathedral of war and debtors' knell, if it doesn't mean double death with deathbringer liege you probably stands well.

I was debating myself about debtor's knell also, but since it might be a great fetch with the tutor when you have the mana. and you have lifelinkers, silent arbiter, worship and a good removal package, there is a good chance that the match will last long if your initial aggression doesn't work, and you get chumped each turn (or eats lots of removal) - so I included it also.

my build is quite close to yours.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:09 am 
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"Starter"
A library for the Nefarox 2013 deck (Exalted Darkness)
60 Cards. 38 nonlands (22 creatures, 16 spells). 22 Lands (10 10; 2 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Creature
-- 2x Akrasan Squire
-- 4x Duty-Bound Dead
-- 2x Tormented Soul
-- 4x Aven Squire
-- 2x Darklit Gargoyle
-- 3x Knight of Glory
-- 2x Knight of Infamy
-- 2x Silent Arbiter
-- 1x Sublime Archangel
Spell
-- 2x Pacifism
-- 3x Spirit Mantle
-- 1x Mortify
-- 1x Sword of Vengeance
-- 3x Unmake
-- 2x Vindicate
-- 2x Whispersilk Cloak
-- 1x Worship
-- 1x Sigil of Distinction
Land
-- 2x Cathedral of War


Last edited by InFaMoUsGeMiNi on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:12 am 
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bentz wrote:
My main thought about this build is what I usually think about your builds, I just like 1 drops more than you.
I would prefer akrasan squire over aven squire. I think you have enough designated attackers, swinging for 3 on turn 2 is a great option. and even if you terramorphic on turn 1, inserting 2 exalted dudes on turn 3 instead of 1 can make the difference.
other than that, I like the build. Most black decks uses discards, or have good non-black targets, so I would consider using doom blade, it is cheaper the unmake, works better with cathedral of war and debtors' knell, if it doesn't mean double death with deathbringer liege you probably stands well.

I was debating myself about debtor's knell also, but since it might be a great fetch with the tutor when you have the mana. and you have lifelinkers, silent arbiter, worship and a good removal package, there is a good chance that the match will last long if your initial aggression doesn't work, and you get chumped each turn (or eats lots of removal) - so I included it also.

my build is quite close to yours.


I don't like running a pair of white one-drops in a deck with only eight plains; I wouldn't cut the Avens, though, their evasion is critical to closing games.

I don't like Doom Blade in the D13 metagame at all, and the exile clause of Unmake is great for pesky critters like Demigod of Revenge (who laughs at Doom Blade). I'd run Pacifism in this deck before Doom Blade.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:16 am 
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"Starter"
A library for the Nefarox 2013 deck (Exalted Darkness)
60 Cards. 38 nonlands (22 creatures, 16 spells). 22 Lands (10 10; 2 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Creature
-- 2x Akrasan Squire
-- 4x Duty-Bound Dead
-- 2x Tormented Soul
-- 4x Aven Squire
-- 2x Darklit Gargoyle
-- 3x Knight of Glory
-- 2x Knight of Infamy
-- 2x Silent Arbiter
-- 1x Sublime Archangel
Spell
-- 2x Pacifism
-- 3x Spirit Mantle
-- 1x Mortify
-- 1x Sword of Vengeance
-- 3x Unmake
-- 2x Vindicate
-- 2x Whispersilk Cloak
-- 1x Worship
-- 1x Sigil of Distinction
Land
-- 2x Cathedral of War


Posting builds is fine, but I'm more interested in the discussion. Why did you choose these particular cards and how do you justify leaving out powerful cards like Divinity of Pride or Deathbringer Liege?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:38 am 
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Quite obvious that he went for the pure aggro build, and worked hard to balance plains and swamps.
Liege is obviously too expensive and slow for this build. Divinity has only 20 lands to be played with, and no chance of entering 8/8 without life gain- auto exclude in his build.
Bigger question is does demonic tutor should be part in the pure aggro version.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:13 am 
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I didn't think the aggro version too good for this deck, although I keep changing from aggro to control. In the end, I chose control. This deck became somewhat obsolete with Grim Procession, but it was still one of my favorite decks.

[1v1] "Eternal Darkness"
A library for the Nefarox 2013 deck (Exalted Darkness)
60 Cards. 36 nonlands (22 creatures, 14 spells). 24 Lands (12 8; 4 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 4x Evolving Wilds
cost  
-- 4x Aven Squire
-- 2x Child of Night
-- 3x Knight of Glory
-- 2x Knight of Infamy
-- 1x Demonic Tutor
-- 2x Ring of Xathrid
cost  
-- 1x Royal Assassin
-- 1x Mortify
-- 3x Unmake
-- 2x Vindicate
-- 2x Whispersilk Cloak
cost  
-- 2x Silent Arbiter
-- 1x Sublime Archangel
-- 1x No Mercy
-- 1x Worship
cost  
-- 1x Battlegrace Angel
-- 2x Deathbringer Liege
-- 2x Divinity of Pride
cost  
-- 1x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis
cost  
-- 1x Angel of Despair
-- 1x Debtors' Knell

The plan was to lock the board with Worship and either Whispersilk Cloak or Ring of Xathrid. It was a good deck against many decks, but extremely bad against Sepulchral Strength, Mana Mastery, Grim Procession and Crosswinds.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:53 am 
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mine is this:

[1v1] "Starter"
A library for the Nefarox 2013 deck (Exalted Darkness)
60 Cards. 35 nonlands (21 creatures, 14 spells). 25 Lands (9 11; 5 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 1x Cathedral of War
-- 4x Evolving Wilds
cost  
-- 2x Akrasan Squire
-- 4x Duty-Bound Dead
cost  
-- 2x Child of Night
-- 3x Knight of Glory
-- 2x Knight of Infamy
-- 1x Demonic Tutor
-- 1x Doom Blade
cost  
-- 1x Royal Assassin
-- 1x Mortify
-- 1x Sword of Vengeance
-- 3x Unmake
-- 2x Vindicate
-- 1x Whispersilk Cloak
cost  
-- 2x Silent Arbiter
-- 1x Sublime Archangel
-- 1x No Mercy
-- 1x Worship
cost  
-- 2x Deathbringer Liege
-- 2x Divinity of Pride
cost  
-- 1x Debtors' Knell
cost  
-- 1x Sigil of Distinction

you spread your exalted net quickly, and starts with early aggression. this won't usually give you the win, but it will allow you to attack each turn, and at some point will force a diabolic edict effect. your way for the win starts after. you have variant removal spells. the liege allows you to defend, and slowly clear the board.
the life gainers are the designated attackers (but you are supposed to attack even if you don't have them). the cloak is for evasion and protecting your most valuable creatures. the sword is for pump, evasion, allowing your big creature to also defend, haste after a sweeper.

so the plan here is control with probably one attacker that allows you to put pressure. there aren't many exalted triggers in this build, and in many situations you attack with more than one creature.


Last edited by bentz on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:58 am 
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I don't think you realize how good the Darklit Gargoyle is in this deck.....

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:05 am 
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I know darklit gargoyle is nice, I used to play with him before the expansions. you attack with him, and if he is not blocked, you tap your swamps for huge damage. I have no problem with this card, I just prefer others. tapping for him and get insta-remove and not abling to advance board position is just one problem, he also doesn't do anything with no exalted support.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:33 am 
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bentz wrote:
Quite obvious that he went for the pure aggro build, and worked hard to balance plains and swamps.
Liege is obviously too expensive and slow for this build. Divinity has only 20 lands to be played with, and no chance of entering 8/8 without life gain- auto exclude in his build.
Bigger question is does demonic tutor should be part in the pure aggro version.


Exactomundo!
2x Akrasan Squire, 4x Duty-Bound Dead, 4x Aven Squire, 3x Knight of Glory, 2x Knight of Infamy, and 1x Sublime Archangel make for a more explosive early game. That's about 16 exalted triggers in addition to 2x Cathedral of War's which makes a total of 18!!!

2x Tormented Soul's and 2x Darklit Gargoyle's, in addition to 3x Spirit Mantle's provide me with the needed evasion to get through creatures. Cards like the 3x Unmake, and the split between Pacifism and Vindicate
provides disruption for the mid to early game which is why I saw 5 drops as completely irrelevant.

Lastly, Whispersilk Cloak, Sword of Vengeance, and Sigil of Distinction are nice additions for a deck focused around getting a single large creature through. Silent Arbiter is good against the aggro match ups and Worship is good against everything else. The reason I like this build the most is because it has a low land count and the colors are evenly balanced. :smirk:

EDIT: Oh right...Demonic Tutor. That card has no home in this deck. You aren't trying to piece together a combo or anything and you have enough consistency.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:33 pm 
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I think the overall power level of Demonic Tutor is too high not to run it in any build; Worship is an excellent target, as is any removal spell or a Whispersilk Cloak. Hell, even tutoring Spirit Mantle is going to net you free wins from time to time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Again...it has no place. You cannot rely on a 1-of to find another 1-of in your deck and expect that to be a plan. You cannot rely on a 1-of to find a 3-of in your deck...that's counter productive...your much more likely to find your 3-of than your 1-of tutor. Also, I worked really hard to balance the colors in this deck!

You say removal and Whispersilk Cloak?! You have 8-9 things that evade creatures. Again, using a 1-of to find an 8-of is counter productive. You have like 7-8 removal spells. Why do you need a tutor?!?!?!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Because a tutor is whatever card you happen to need; tutoring is extremely powerful and should never be overlooked.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:26 pm 
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You never leave out demonic tutor unless you literally cannot cast it reliably.

..... That's like the number 2 rule of Magic the Gathering.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:35 pm 
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The Gargoyle and Tutor imho are must runs in this deck.
I'll post up what came to be my final cut with some reasons why later this evening. Orzhov is maybe one of my favorite color combinations and I love building on them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Exactly. "what ever card you need". LIKE A COMBO PIECE. FOR COMBO DECKS.

I'm still standing by my argument even if I get attacked on all fronts. >:(


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Dude.

Even in non-combo decks, there are one ofs and two ofs and all sorts of things that you may want but won't get.

Demonic Tutor is every piece of removal and every game-winning bomb in your deck. It is literally an almost failsafe answer to every situation your deck is capable of handling, just because if your deck has a way to handle it you can go fetch that card.

Because every deck has those moments where you go "If only I could draw this card......."


It is the exact opposite of being situational, and if you think tutors that CAN GET ANY CARD EVER are only for combo decks, you are completely missing a major part of MTG strategy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:59 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
Dude.

Even in non-combo decks, there are one ofs and two ofs and all sorts of things that you may want but won't get.

Demonic Tutor is every piece of removal and every game-winning bomb in your deck. It is literally an almost failsafe answer to every situation your deck is capable of handling, just because if your deck has a way to handle it you can go fetch that card.

Because every deck has those moments where you go "If only I could draw this card......."


It is the exact opposite of being situational, and if you think tutors that CAN GET ANY CARD EVER are only for combo decks, you are completely missing a major part of MTG strategy.


No...I understand MTG strategy to a greater depth then you do. A "search your library for a particular card" effect CAN be included in any deck you want but that is not where it shines. I guess you can make a case for inconsistent decks too. But, it shines most in COMBO decks. Like...name ONE deck with a "tutor" effect in any major format for me that didn't focus around a combo finish.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Ok, I will talk about the deck rather then my build this time around. I personally think this deck should have been in 2014 rather then in 2013: By that I mean that the deck has a ton of cheap 1 and 2 cmc cards that just want to trigger exalted but are unfortunately stuck with with a 12 swamp and 8 plains split which force you to run some evolving wilds. This of course doesn't even take into account that you want to slip a Cathedral of War or two in there, so rather then turn this into a smooth "aggro" exalted face-beater it becomes a rather clunky "am I an aggro deck or mid range deck?" So while the deck has a TON of potential to be an aggro deck I think for consistency's sake it should be run as a sort of mid range exalted control deck. Now onto the cards:

At the end of the day no matter how you slice it the deck will still be an exalted deck unless you want to get cute with it. For the sake of consistency I have always been of the school of thought that you should pick either between Child of Night. Darklit Gargoyle or a split between the two mostly to keep the exalted consistency cards available to pump them. Their benefits are almost obvious, one is an offensive card while the other is a bit more on the defensive side but it should be noted that Darklit Gargoyle will fool at least one SS player into casting Go for the throat during the attack phase due the rarity of artifact creatures in 2013. Mark of Asylum will shut down Born of Flames, Mindstorms and to a lesser extent Goblin Gangland but should it be run main deck? With not many people currently playing the game I say no but its amazing side board material. No Mercy is an amazing card that will force your opponents to hold back attacking creatures until they feel comfortable "alpha striking" you but by the time that happens your exalted creatures will probably have them under siege which puts their plan at stand still. is Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis worth running? The P/T is good considering that it has flying (evasion), it has really good ability and it has exalted. On paper its hard to justify not wanting to include that card but I am sure the majority of players think its an auto exclude since they want to run Divinity of Pride, Battlegrace Angel or Deathbringer Liege as the "big drops."


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