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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Imma sit this one out. I was already leaning that way when sideboards were announced, but the block thing seals it. I'm too casual for that ****. And I'm one of those people Gem's talking about, in that I've never built a sideboard. I've played in a lot of sealed tourneys at release events and a handful of draft events, but other than that my MTG background is kitchen table w/ friends (and now Duels) where sideboards are irrelevant.

With sideboards, the rich get richer. The best tourney players (who tend to have competitive constructed experience) now get more tools to dominate with, that the less experienced builders/players won't know how to use as well. With the old way, those bottom dwellers at least had a shot at success based on matchups/luck (just look at Nighthawk for proof! I'm kidding NH, we all love you!). It better reflected the Duels experience too.

Block is an interesting idea TBS, but I'd rather have that be an afterparty thing. Right now I'm just trying to have fun playing with new cards - not trying to think about which block can accommodate a deck I'd be interested in building. Last time I just picked a deck I thought was fun and had been updating every season, spiked it up a bit for tourney play and meta calls, and rolled with it. That was cool with me, playing new stuff in old shells.

None of this is meant to be a criticism of Kryder. Mad respect to him for organizing these and dealing with our bull****. Just feels like the changes will shrug off casuals. Like me.

I'll still watch the tourney, as I'm curious to see how it plays out. If I can, anyways. No streaming requirement means hyper competitive players like Gem won't be recording and betraying their competitive advantage. :V

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Yeah it's a big turn off for sure

I don't think I mind the block idea though. When I used to play CCGs a ton, block play was always my favourite. It's much less competitive. The only risk you run in having a block tourney is lessor attendance cuz some people might not figure out a deck in time

That's the only part where I disagree with you TImh. I think block play is very very casual, for guys like us

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:32 pm 
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That's the only part where I disagree with you TImh. I think block play is very very casual, for guys like us


That's fair, and perhaps block doesn't belong in the bad-for-casuals criticism of the changes. I was thinking of it being more work that my causal gaming schedule doesn't have time for. I'm putting all my MTG time into having fun with the new cards this time of the season.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Imho this is going to spice up the tournament. Seems to me the decision to add sideboards for top 8 play is a concession to everyone that wants sideboard play but to help balance that inclusion we get to play block limited stuff that is even more casual. It's almost like we have 3 different formats in one tournament. Block Limited - Duels - Duels+sb (quasi standard?)

Timh you can still make top 8 without even building a sb. Let's be honest with ourselves, our janky stuff isn't going far after we hit top 8. I was impressed just seeing you get there and it's all i hoped my deck would do.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:04 pm 
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TImh's point is that his janky stuff stood a chance before but now with sideboards, it's even harder for him to go deep in a top 8

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Basically. Once I hit top 8 anything was possible. I came reasonably close to making top 4, and at least put up a decent fight against someone who is most likely a much better magic player. More spikey for sure. And that was all playing with a deck I just thought was really fun, using new cards I was excited to play with. Now I just don't see myself having any chance against top 8 Spikes who have well tuned sideboards, and the fun appeal of trying to advance through swiss is lessened for me due to the limitations of block building hampering my goofy/fun deck ideas. Just not my cup of tea for participating in.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:30 am 
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Mackey79 wrote:
But all the important changes... block constructed,sideboards... That's not Duels anymore.



I agree with Mackey.

Can not it be a tournament like always?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:35 am 
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this will be a
great tournament.

thanks kryder for finally changing up the tourney. we needed this.

I'm definitely in. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:44 am 
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At TIMH... if you change your mind let me know. I'm happy to help you with your sideboard and even how to use it. That said, an EASY way to get ideas - I'm talking to all of you right now - is take a look at what gets put into sideboards in actual standard, think about why, include what you can (and what would be relevant here), etc...

E.g.: white runs a couple dec stones in SB or similar, green has a rec sage or two, red may have a transformation to bigger (litterally a land or two with some big finishers), black (depends on original deck) but surely never return and possibly GY hate, U counterspell options.

If you're running two colors I probably just gave you most of your sideboard right now.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:55 pm 
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I'm stuck on what to run for block.
I don't want to do Vech.dec, and i don't have AMK fully unlocked so i can't run zombies(which looks fantastic even with only 1 set out)
U/W tempo or bant tempo from INN block seems good.
Kala block turbo tower also seems like a good choice.(fog has a fantastic vech match up.)
pretty torn honestly.

Standard seems like a super easy choice.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:28 pm 
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what's the super easy choice for standard?

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:41 pm 
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G/W or G/W/x toolbox.
Has answers for literal everything and is super consistant.

Would post the lists i am testing just at work atm.
Been playing G/W toolbox since the start of last season.
Between it and Turbo Fog I had no issues rising to 40 and staying there.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:08 pm 
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has answer to toolcraft - copter - motorist on the play? The 1st removal is 3 mana skywhaler's shot? I doubt you can get away without using black.

Turbo fog is awesome if there's a consistent wincon. I spent long time to make it work and when it works it beats everything consistently. I am very not sure since this time we have sideboard and pretty much any wincon can be efficiently countered. If no sideboard I would 100% use my fog deck I had been tuning since last season.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:32 pm 
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My Fog lists are generally base Blue green where i don't have a single land that ETBs tapped as long as i have a forest and island in play.
I splash red mostly for Fev visions.

Win cons lately have been tamiyo ult into casting my deck into ula+an extra turn.
I cut the mill game plan as it seemed too frail.
Besides that dynavolt, ula, visions or thing in the ice tend to end my games.

I have been testing out alt win cons though like 1x fling 1x enigma drake(I run 3x pulse, 1x green warden 2x that u/b skaab and Torr-gear hulk as GY recursion.)

As for G/W vs that play, yeah I can still lose to the deck though I have only seen that play like once or twice. on the draw it's no problem.
Selfless+rallier+displacer tend to be just too much value.
Relector mage, bigger fliers on my end and instant speed reanimation paired with indi tends to close out the game fairly quickly.
They really need to have the nut hand which people must really not know how to mull because 9 out of 10 times it seems like no play turn 1.
turn 2 copter, heart etc.
which just meets a rec sage most of the time.
Faced the deck countless times and honestly haven't seen a single skywhaler's shot.
Tons of fatal push but outside of my dorks that does next to nothing.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Attention Planeswalkers!

Due to some concerns with confusion amongst your ranks, Real-Life concerns, and other factors beyond control, the tournament has been reorganized.

The following changes are in effect:

Rounds 1 - 2 Block has been cancelled. The swiss rounds are all standard duels deckbuilding, no restrictions as in previous tournaments. Top-8 still has sideboards available. Tournaments start 1 week later to accommodate player's deckbuilding.

Changes were made to the Tournament Timelines section and Tournament Rules section, rules 1 and 2. Please peruse at your earliest convenience.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:24 am 
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Aww, was looking forward to Block. Ah well, more time to get the main deck ready then.

Just out of curiosity - would there be more interest in Block if we had full blocks to work with? Would it be worth looking into after HOU is released?


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:15 am 
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TheWizard wrote:
Mackey79 wrote:
... block constructed,sideboards... That's not Duels anymore. How do you play test this when it is not even part of the game?


What you want to test with sideboards? You have just a card pool that is 15 cards wider, then you can exchange cards when needed. For example if you are vs.
a controll deck exchange the removal against something more usefull in your sideboard, thats it.


If we would have sideboards in the game, then you get to test what you are actually switching around. A card might seem great to put in a sideboard theoretically but maybe you wind up with a dead card because you misjudged it. Or it's just not that good in a sideboard as you thought. Your example is a valid one but very simplistic. Because there is a difference between widening your deck and try to counter a certain archetype or playstyle with a sideboard. Tainted Remedy is a perfect example. That is a card that you will only sideboard and never play in your main deck. I never tested that card, have you?

And that's what I'm trying to say. You try to implement something that is simply not part of this game. Duels is casual Magic, otherwise we would have four copies of every card as well. Forcing the tournaments out of their casual environment will push the game more to the hardcore Magic gamer and scare casual gamers away. And the original plan was: keep it simple, attract new players and make a bigger community.

Just my opinion. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:17 am 
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Mackey79 wrote:
Duels is casual Magic, otherwise we would have four copies of every card as well. Forcing the tournaments out of their casual environment will push the game more to the hardcore Magic gamer and scare casual gamers away. And the original plan was: keep it simple, attract new players and make a bigger community.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:49 am 
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Kryder wrote:
Attention Planeswalkers!

Due to some concerns with confusion amongst your ranks, Real-Life concerns, and other factors beyond control, the tournament has been reorganized.

The following changes are in effect:

Rounds 1 - 2 Block has been cancelled. The swiss rounds are all standard duels deckbuilding, no restrictions as in previous tournaments. Top-8 still has sideboards available. Tournaments start 1 week later to accommodate player's deckbuilding.

Changes were made to the Tournament Timelines section and Tournament Rules section, rules 1 and 2. Please peruse at your earliest convenience.

Thank the lawd! Not that I disliked the idea of block specific decks, but I just didn't want to spend time making up a second deck :D I'll play if Barney plays

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:04 am 
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I thought the block idea was cool :(
it would have had me scrambling to find something other than vehicles cuz i'm a special snowflake that way

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