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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:53 am 
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Banedon wrote:
There seems to be a proliferation of highly non-interactive decks right now. The Spotter deck is one, Cursed Skellige is another. They're really good at dumping out points, but they are almost entirely unable to interact. You might want to consider running Succubus, divinevert.

Now might also be the time to break out Ciri, Octvist, etc.


Yeah, for Monsters, Succubus has gained alot of value. Same with Summoning Circle, for the ability to steal and create your own Spotter (or also spam additional spies like some annoying Skellige decks).

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Apparently Mill is still around: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/39475-4550 ... d-guide-up

Never say never, eh ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:06 am 
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Lurker wrote:
Apparently Mill is still around: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/39475-4550 ... d-guide-up

Never say never, eh ;)


Seems both extremely matchup dependent and also extremely RNG in how it needs to draw everything in the proper order.

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:09 pm 
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That said, I'm 2-1 with it, so apparently it's not much worse than previous mill. I just wish there was an extra gold slot, maybe in place of Vilgerfortz or whatever to slide in Steffen to at least allow me to more consistently fetch Avallach.

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:52 am 
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I just ran into it and beat it with my completely experimental Francesca swarm deck @_@ Like, I even thinned like crazy even after identifying the matchup.

Speaking of Francesca swarm, I've not run into anyone playing this yet. What do you think Lurker: the idea is to play Half-Elf Hunter and Blue Mountain Commandos (stuff the new names I agree) to make bodies, and then farm Vrihedd Vanguards, sometimes with Vrihedd Officer backup. The points generation can be very impressive: at the end of a long round each Officer mulliganing a Vanguard can be over 30 points. It's not that vulnerable to removal either (unlike Siege Supports) since the cards have enter-the-battlefield effects. Downside: like with other swarm decks it's weak if bled, and there's always the perpetual danger of the opponent passing before the swarm payoffs get really good. I suspect Elven Scout will be good, but I literally haven't played a Create card yet. I'm also still unfamiliar with many of the new cards. Any thing I might be missing?

A problem I'm facing is that the deck's good at making units, but not good at killing opposing units. If I can't kill their units, then I can't use Yennefer as a payoff card. Any suggestions?

Also: what does "Apply a Hazard to an enemy row that deals 3 damage to units on contact" mean? Is it a one-off Lacerate, or a weather effect that does 3 damage / turn (that would be stronger than frost / fog)?


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Well, I have a similar approach in the deck I posted on page 32, but I don't use the vrihedd. Interesting way to use the vanguard, however!

I'm on the fence about cards like the elven scout. I mean, what good is its effect really in a deck where you want specific cards? Creating cards that are not in your deck sounds very lackluster to me. To be fair: I'm not a fan of the create cards in general due to the lack of consistency, so I'm not the best judge in that regard.

Well, removal is tricky if scorch is out of the question with your vrihedd officers. Have you tried Milaen? Very good silver if you hit good targets.

That effect means that the damage will be applied if you move units to the hazard, but it doesn't trigger every turn. Useful in decks that run ways to move units into it. Not that useful in other decks now that everything's agile. Now that I think of it...It might also trigger on units that are already on the row you put the hazard on, but I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Changing my mind on the mill deck. It's pretty effective vs everything but axemen.

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:47 pm 
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Well when I looked at your list the thing that stood out most to me were the multiple Scorch effects. Half-Elf Hunter in your deck seems to be nothing other than a generic 12-power unit that's an Elf (i.e. synergizes with Iorveth). Re removal, I have used Milaen and I agree he's good. The problem is that for maximum value I typically want to hit something with more than 6 power, which means I also don't kill the target. Maybe Yennefer just isn't the correct payoff card here. After all, the other swarm cards handily ignore the opposing board. Can you think of any other swarm payoff cards? Commander's Horn I take it - anything else?

Sorry to add yet another linear combo deck to the field!


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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Half-Elf Hunter is the ideal endpoint for the Merc -> Recon chain. Great tempo together with Aelirenn.

What do you mean by "swarm payoff cards"? Cards that are good in swarm deck matchups? If so, Tremors maybe (drawn by Ithlinne for more oomph)?

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Swarm payoff as in, cards that benefit from having lots of units on the field. I'm the one playing swarm so I'm interested in the payoffs. Tremors is an anti-swarm card.

Thinking I'll modify my gold lineup. Iorveth obviously since the deck is effectively Elf tribal. Beyond that ... Saskia (mulligan two Vanguards into another two Vanguards should be pretty strong as a finisher), Iorveth: Meditation since I Officers occasionally get big enough that I can't run Scorch, and Isengrim: Outlaw whose second mode has proven to be quite strong. I kind of want to try post-remake Ithlinne also with Tremors, but am uncertain how much value that usually generates. If it hits 10 units and spawns two golems, great, but I don't have cards that push units to 1-2 health (i.e. Drought).


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:57 am 
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The coin flip is so ****.

Play against Ciri: Nova deck and lose coinflip -> he plays spy -> no matter what I do I either go down two cards or lose on equal cards. The game's virtually over from the very first turn. Totally ridiculous. Hurry up and fix this CDPR, or I'd pretty much have to dry pass R1 if I lose the coin flip.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:49 pm 
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I'm thinking of putting the Francesca swarm deck down. It's not terrible, but it doesn't generate points as well as some other decks. I've found myself losing rounds by like 5-10 points - just not good enough. Will iterate it a bit more since I can point to some play errors on my part, but overall not hopeful.

Next up might be some super-weather Eredin list. It's true weather didn't get buffed last patch while everything else surged in power, but weather clear is also at an all-time low. What are the meta decks' plan vs. gold weather anyway? Each one of those could easily be 60+ points in a long round.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:15 pm 
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I'm playing around with a Shupe Monsters deck in casual and it's all kinds of fun, even though it never wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:07 am 
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I feel like the Brouver deck is really overpowered right now. It's frighteningly consistent and has lots of powerful individual cards to boot. Iorveth: Meditation isn't completely overpowered, but it's usually worth 15+ points, sometimes much more. Ithlinne + Tremors is insane; she's often worth 30+ points, especially if I can set up a 1-health and 2-health unit. These two golds are good enough that Iorveth is getting overshadowed, and that's a card that was one of the best golds last patch. The bronzes are not that good, but Barclay Els is very strong, Hattori can bring it back, and some of the bronzes strengthen themselves for the eventual resurrect too. To top it off they somehow always have Wardancers as carryover that can't be interacted with (I actually Francesca'ed for a Wardancer last game just to beat this). My Francesca swarm deck has not been performing well, but I still win like half my games; it feels like most of it was me getting carried by I:M & Ithlinne however.

The ladder appears to be mostly Brouver & the new consume deck. Not particularly fun, ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:47 am 
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Are you still playing Eredin divinevert? If so, have you updated the list on the last page, and mind sharing some observations? Some of mine are:

1) Weather clear is really at an all-time low. I faced a single Gremist in five games just now. The downside is, since weather clear is so rare, it's desirable to flood the board with weather -> if the opponent is one of those few people with weather clear, I lose horribly.

2) Interactivity's also at an all-time low. Succubus is very strong. Octvist is also very strong. In those same five games, I triggered Octvist each time I drew it, with opponents using the little removal they do have on Rider.

3) Iris is still very good. With interactivity at an all-time low though, I get the feeling that Riders aren't that necessary anymore. People will not be able to counter Iris after it's played.

4) Ice Troll is meh. There was one game when it sniped a Dragoon out, but there was also a game where it was drawn by Stregobor and mostly useless. WH Warriors seem to make more sense to me - 3 damage is enough to trigger Iris. Warriors are also easier to use, control frost damage better, and are Wild Hunt units -> benefit from Navigator synergies. Ice Troll is also only ever worth 12 points at most, the same as Warriors. In fact with Warriors, Eredin is worth up to 20 points (!).

5) I'm currently using both Frightener + Summoning Circle because opponents with both of them are decently common, long rounds are great for Eredin, and card advantage is important given I'm running Succubus (Octvist helps if not removed, however). Abaya is not necessary and easily replaced by First Light. I'd love to run the Crones just so I can play them and pass if I go first; however there's simply no space.

6) I'm running 6 rows of frost although it's conceivable Woodland Spirit deserves a gold slot. What golds are you running? Caranthir and Succubus are obvious. Caretaker is still strong, especially if Iris is in the deck. What about the last slot - if not running Woodland Spirit, Geels seems like the only option. Or maybe run gold weather removing White Frost since there're lots of silvers I want to run (Octvist, Frightener, Scorch, Summoning Circle, Iris, Toad Prince to get rid of Exhausted Octvist, Monster Nest since no more Dorregaray, Jotunn).

Bronze slots also needs to be worked on. 9 cards are fixed (Hounds and Drowner). Maybe a couple of Riders and Warriors, plus Slyzard or Navigator, and First Light.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 am 
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Day 2 of Eredin testing:

1) The way Blood Moon works is to do two damage when a unit is placed or moved into the row. After that it doesn't do any more damage. Not particularly good. However, Full Moon is effectively a Frost - it gives +2 power per turn. Full Moon also doubles as weather clear (although if you play it first, opponent can weather it too), and since it's played on your side of the board, it's not cleared by their First Light. Furthermore, you get more thinning, it's harder for the opponent to screw with it - they can't play 1-power units to tank the damage - and you cannot end up drawing more weather than there are rows. I think Siren with Moonlight is the way to go, especially since Werewolf is 14 points with Moonlight in play. Main drawback is some inconsistency. Usually you just want to play all your +2 / turn cards as early in the round as possible, but if you do that and opponent passes, any future Rider / Werewolf / Drowner draws are mostly dead.

2) Per #1, Ciri: Nova is probably the best option now. You don't lose that much - Drowner and Rider already get worse given that you have fewer frosts.

3) At this point the bronze lineup that OceanMud used is pretty much set (http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/40493-ocea ... ova-eredin). There remains to tweak the silvers and golds. Having played with the list, I rather dislike the Toad / Manticore / Monster Nest choices. They're combo cards and if I don't draw one of them they suddenly get a lot weaker. I'm currently trying out Jotunn / Hailstorm / Octvist instead.

4) I overestimated how good Octvist is. There aren't that many uninteractive decks. Among the top decks, Brouver can kill it (with I:M; even Mercenary can kill it eventually), Axemen kill it, Ithlinne bringing out Alzur's Thunder kills it, NR machines kills it. It's only good against consume & cursed Skellige, and those decks just don't have enough metagame share. However, I struggle to find a better silver. The irony is real since I was like, too many silvers not enough space just yesterday. However Scorch is counterproductive with Succubus, and Toad Prince / Monster Nest both get weaker without Manticore, White Frost is less good given less emphasis on hazards, even Abaya is less good since Clear Skies isn't that necessary with Moonlight in the deck. The "easy" thinning cards, Marching Orders and Alzur's Double Cross, don't work as well since they both pull out disloyal units.

Maybe I'll run Roach.

5) Finally the golds. Ciri: Nova is in, Succubus may or may not be in (G: Igni should be a capable replacement). Caretaker and Caranthir are both very capable golds, but I'm also considering Whispess: Tribute. Monster Nest is an organic card, pulling it out would not just be thinning but also a tremendous tempo play.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:14 pm 
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I'm mostly playing Mill right now, but I sometimes play Eredin. I couldn't imagine the deck without Scorch. I came to the same conclusion about Ice Troll.

I haven't really tweaked around with my Eredin deck that much, this is it's current form: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/40573-cold

I'm using Aeromancer and Woodland as a tutor for a singleton Foglet currently.

Here's my mill deck: gwentdb.com/decks/40421-mill

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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:08 am 
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Tried your deck with -Jotunn +Summoning Circle to help in spy wars for Succubus. Didn't like it. It just doesn't generate enough points. In my last match vs. a consume deck for example, I went into round 3 up two cards with opponent going first (main weakness of the consume deck, lack of early tempo), but my opponent generated so many points I was behind by ~60 points with 3 cards left to play vs. his zero. The gap was so large that even Iris would not have saved me, only Succubus could. And I was even doing things like play Drowners to move his Vran Warriors. I won like 2 games out of 6, and none of the games I lost was because of weather clear.

It's nice to play cards that sit there and generate points, but the deck badly needs some high-tempo plays. Again, the Full Moon version, with Werewolves, springs to mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Having a decent amount of success with the following mulligan list:

2x Wardancer
3x Elven Scout
3x Half-elf Hunter
3x Vrihedd Officer
2x Vrihedd Vanguard
1x Tremors
1x Alzur's Thunder

1x Milaen
1x Ida
1x Scorch
1x Commander's Horn
1x Yaevinn
1x Aelirenn

1x Iorveth
1x Iorveth: Meditation
1x Ithlinne
1x Isengrim: Outlaw

Brief play notes:

1) Make sure you have things to mulligan. E.g. if you have no Vanguards in hand, mulligan Officer; if you have one Vanguard, mulligan all but one Officer, etc.
2) Don't use Francesca for as long as possible. The reason is so that you can mulligan away any lousy draw you get from mulliganing with Officers. This took some getting used to, since I was used to Francesca-ing for Iorveth at the start of every round.
3) Isengrim: Outlaw has a decent chance of drawing Ida (vs. weather) and Ciaran (vs. the occasional deck with units worth locking). Points-wise, the best Isengrim: Outlaw pick is usually Hattori into Elven Scout (which also puts a bunch of bodies on the board for Vanguard).
4) Preferably, both you and the opponent already have units on the board before you play Elven Scout. This enables Dwarven Skirmisher, Hawker Healer & Elven Swordmaster.

I rather dislike Milaen but there's nothing else to run. At least he could conceivably be used to set up Ithlinne. I did try Hattori but Hattori is dead in round 1, plus I need to have played Elven Scout in a previous round, plus Hattori usually cannot resurrect Ida since this deck doesn't search for Iorveth nearly as consistently as the handbuff decks of last patch. I suppose there's always Summoning Circle but God I hate spy wars. If I could run 2x Ida instead, I would.

Really hoping for a spy and coin flip fix. It's devastating to lose the coin flip + opponent has spy + you don't have your own spy. I am very tempted to drypass R1 if that happens, but that leads to its own minefield: there's a good chance I need to Francesca for Yaevinn in round 2, and the +3 strength is counterproductive then; further, I need a Wardancer in hand to prevent opponent from drypassing. Last couple of times it backfired on me vs. a Ciri: Nova deck I could no longer Scorch, and almost as well against a Queensguard deck (but he pushed round 2 too long and I went into round 3 up a card).

I'm considering -Isengrim: Outlaw -Milaen +Isengrim +Toruviel or Malena. Small problem with Toruviel is that she's usually face down, in which case Vanguard doesn't buff her. Small problem with Malena is that she's more difficult to set up, and if opponent passes at once, I don't get the tempo.

ST is really overpowered right now. To some extent, it feels like the deck's being carried by its gold cards, especially Ithlinne (this card can be worth more points than Succubus) and Iorveth: Meditation.


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 Post subject: Re: Gwent
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:11 am 
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I'm currently using the daily quests to play factions I don't normally play as much which is actually quite fun. My current axemen deck:

1x Birna Bran
1x Avallac'h
1x Ragh nar Roog
1x Drought

1x Blueboy Lugos
1x Sigrdrifa
1x Scorch
1x Derran
1x Skellige Storm
1x Restore

3x Axeman
3x Whale Harpooner
3x Warship
2x Herbalist
2x Priestess of Freya
2x Lacerate

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