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 Post subject: [RNA-ICD] Sharktocrab
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:50 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:22 am 
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OK, the Simic have entered Syfy movie of the week territory and it is glorious.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:08 am 
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OK, the Simic have entered Syfy movie of the week territory and it is glorious.

I just wish adapt weren't such a bland mechanic

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:07 am 
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Agreed. It's just a less flavorful interpretation of monstrous that doesn't play well with Thrive. I feel like eventually people are going to realize the design space for "slap +1/+1 counters on things" is somewhat limited and we'll get other mechanics.

Ah, who am I kidding?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:23 am 
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Yeah, it's starting to feel like Magic has jumped the sharktocrab. Though Maro assures us that several exciting products are coming out this year


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 am 
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Agreed. It's just a less flavorful interpretation of monstrous that doesn't play well with Thrive. I feel like eventually people are going to realize the design space for "slap +1/+1 counters on things" is somewhat limited and we'll get other mechanics.

Ah, who am I kidding?

Honestly, it's just less interesting than either evolve or graft
And considering those are the centerpieces of the simic decks I've already built, I'm not predicting much reason to mix and match.
(hell, graft actively works against adapt)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:48 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
(hell, graft actively works against adapt)

But abilities that tend to be on adapt creatures work well with graft.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:27 pm 
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I still say instead of "If there are none" it should be "If it has less than X, put on until it has X." So if you put two counters on an Adapt 4 it isn't screwed out of getting 4 counters on it. Would also work better with the idea of using counters as resources as you can reload Adapt X>1 faster. Would probably need some cost tweaking but it wouldn't even require a change to Biomancer's Familiar.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:21 pm 
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I still say instead of "If there are none" it should be "If it has less than X, put on until it has X." So if you put two counters on an Adapt 4 it isn't screwed out of getting 4 counters on it. Would also work better with the idea of using counters as resources as you can reload Adapt X>1 faster. Would probably need some cost tweaking but it wouldn't even require a change to Biomancer's Familiar.

Or they just could have reprinted Monstrous, in which case if you put counters on before who cares.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:23 pm 
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I still say instead of "If there are none" it should be "If it has less than X, put on until it has X." So if you put two counters on an Adapt 4 it isn't screwed out of getting 4 counters on it. Would also work better with the idea of using counters as resources as you can reload Adapt X>1 faster. Would probably need some cost tweaking but it wouldn't even require a change to Biomancer's Familiar.

Or they just could have reprinted Monstrous, in which case if you put counters on before who cares.
Yeah, but you can only Monstrous once and they wanted using counters as a resource to be a thing that the Simic did this time. They wanted you to have the ability to use up the counters and Adapt again as needed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:50 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
I still say instead of "If there are none" it should be "If it has less than X, put on until it has X." So if you put two counters on an Adapt 4 it isn't screwed out of getting 4 counters on it. Would also work better with the idea of using counters as resources as you can reload Adapt X>1 faster. Would probably need some cost tweaking but it wouldn't even require a change to Biomancer's Familiar.

Or they just could have reprinted Monstrous, in which case if you put counters on before who cares.
Yeah, but you can only Monstrous once and they wanted using counters as a resource to be a thing that the Simic did this time. They wanted you to have the ability to use up the counters and Adapt again as needed.

I haven't seen a ton of spend-counters tech, though. If they had a lot of it, I might forgive that more. Maybe I just missed the relevant spoilers? Like, I've taken up Force of Will alongside Magic and the latest block there has a tribe with a +1/+1 counter theme, but there they have a decent amount of relevant spend effects, like this fellow.
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Note: Numbers in FoW are about 200x numbers in Magic, since the starting life is 4k. They also exist in multiples of 100, because Japan.
Most of the simic stuff, though, isn't like Lancelot there. They have "When one or more counters are put on..." triggers. I guess Combine Guildmage exists with its second ability, but its first ability is... maladaptive (pun intended). The only counter eater I can find is Galloping Lizrog, and that just eats them to make more counters (on itself) not to do anything particularly interesting. Adapt could have been cool if instead of "Adapt [Cost]" and a "When this gets counters" trigger they'd done more "Adapt [cost]" and "Remove Counters: do something" activations, so that you have a choice between beating down and using that p/t as ammo for potent abilities.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:21 pm 
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I'm avoiding force of will. Mainly because of the art. Anime art is known for some issues with being revealing in the clothing department. MTG has a few examples, but it's not a theme.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:49 pm 
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That's fair. Neither my wife nor I mind (and frankly I could cite magic cards, as you say.), and that's who I game with, but if it's a problem for you, there is eye candy alongside the tough warriors and gribbly monsters, so I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

I will say that while looking at most other CCGs has given me a greater appreciation for WotC and Magic, particularly in the design category, FoW has been more of an interesting lens, perhaps because the gameplay is so similar. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's better or even going in better directions, but at least it's not way worse/less fun.

I will say they've handled this year's +1/+1 counter tribal a little better, and that's the point. As stupid/cool as the flavor of a Sharktocrab is, it could have been implemented better if it had support like the cyborg knights of the round table. This is a serious comparison and I can totally say that sentence with a straight face.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm 
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So far we've seen two more cards which enable repeated adapt: Galloping Lizrog, which can just reset all of your creatures by taking their counters, and Biomancer's Familiar, which lets you adapt one creature per turn as though it had no counters. Hopefully there's more the full set, but it's not entirely without support.

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