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 Post subject: [CMR-ICD] Jeweled Lotus
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Jeweled Lotus -
Artifact | MR
, Sacrifice Jeweled Lotus: Add three mana of any one color. Spend this mana only to cast your commander.


Last edited by BelangiaJo on Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Image not loading. Maybe include text? Text was included while I posted, thanks. Went and looked up offsite spoils: It's Black Lotus but you can only use the mana to cast your commander.

Almost certainly an autoinclude in any deck with a commander with CMC => 2+Colors

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Image has been updated, but it's large.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:32 pm 
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Lol people are losing their minds over a card that’s good but not great outside some decks. Like I want one for Ayara and one for the Izzet Pirates I’m making but people think this deserves a banning? Nah bruh


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 pm 
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It's very pretty.
I have literally no use for it, but it's very pretty.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:58 pm 
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lmao wtf

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:10 pm 
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It's usable in one format for either one or two cards. If it's not in your opening hand it'll probably be paying a commander tax plus . It can't even pay for their abilities. Now there are absolutely broken commanders. Najeela for example loves this. But other ones like my Ayara deck are more "Get a good boost".


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:54 am 
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Lol people are losing their minds over a card that’s good but not great outside some decks. Like I want one for Ayara and one for the Izzet Pirates I’m making but people think this deserves a banning? Nah bruh

Tolarian Academy isn't that good outside of some decks. The card is broken, even if there are a lot of commanders that can't take advantage of it, and the format doesn't need more fast mana. I've already cut Sol Ring from most of my decks because I don't like the non-games it produce.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:13 am 
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I went through the gatherer for potential turn 1, 3-4 cmc commanders with 2 or less colors, and not a whole lot actually stand out. Turn one Grand Arbiter Augustin IV seems pretty backbreaking, but then you probably weren't looking to make/keep/have friends if you were playing him anyway. Probably a bigger deal for explosive turn 2 plays.

Turn 1: Land + Sol Ring + Any 2 cmc rock. Turn 2: Land + Lotus, tap everything for 8 mana. Cast Gishath, Maelstrom Wanderer, Morophon, Myojin of Night's Reach, Vorinclex, etc. Of course anyone can be holding up 1-2 cmc answer and ruin your day, so there's that, but still.

I'll probably try to get one, but I probably only have one deck that might actually want it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:17 am 
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The thing is, a big thing this card does is help people who like big expensive commanders actually play with the most important card in their deck. Now, is it broken with Urza, Lord High Artificer? Yes, but I think the problem there is more with Urza than the lotus.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:08 am 
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If you have an expensive commander then you can run cards like Thran Dynamo instead, EDH isn't that fast of a format, barring more cards like these being made.
Echo_Robin wrote:
I went through the gatherer for potential turn 1, 3-4 cmc commanders with 2 or less colors, and not a whole lot actually stand out. Turn one Grand Arbiter Augustin IV seems pretty backbreaking, but then you probably weren't looking to make/keep/have friends if you were playing him anyway. Probably a bigger deal for explosive turn 2 plays.

T1: Arcum Dagsson, Krenko, Mob Boss, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Saheeli, the Gifted
T2: Heartless Hidetsugu, Ilharg, the Raze-Boar, Neheb, the Eternal, Pako, Arcane Retriever, Nikya of the Old Ways, Jegantha, the Wellspring, Karametra, God of Harvests, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf, The Gitrog Monster, Tevesh Szat, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Gavi, Nest Warden, Chulane, Teller of Tales, Yenett, Cryptic Sovereign
It's not that unrealistic that this card lets you cheat in a commander three turns early that facilitates you running away with the game pretty quickly.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:15 pm 
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It's great but also a one time burst of three mana which either your deck can abuse so it could probably already go insane, or it can't so it's good but calling it broken is crazy. Still though I actually really like this in partners.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Mown wrote:
If you have an expensive commander then you can run cards like Thran Dynamo instead, EDH isn't that fast of a format, barring more cards like these being made.
Echo_Robin wrote:
I went through the gatherer for potential turn 1, 3-4 cmc commanders with 2 or less colors, and not a whole lot actually stand out. Turn one Grand Arbiter Augustin IV seems pretty backbreaking, but then you probably weren't looking to make/keep/have friends if you were playing him anyway. Probably a bigger deal for explosive turn 2 plays.

T1: Arcum Dagsson, Krenko, Mob Boss, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Saheeli, the Gifted
T2: Heartless Hidetsugu, Ilharg, the Raze-Boar, Neheb, the Eternal, Pako, Arcane Retriever, Nikya of the Old Ways, Jegantha, the Wellspring, Karametra, God of Harvests, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf, The Gitrog Monster, Tevesh Szat, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Gavi, Nest Warden, Chulane, Teller of Tales, Yenett, Cryptic Sovereign
It's not that unrealistic that this card lets you cheat in a commander three turns early that facilitates you running away with the game pretty quickly.


Yeah, it's fast mana. But there already is fast mana in the format. This is not inherently more broken than LED, or Mana Vault, or Dark Ritual, or...

Also, you can't judge a card based only on its best case scenario. Yes, it can bring it a commander three turns early if you draw it at the right moment.. But most of the time you won't draw it at the right moment, and then it will be a dead card.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Turn 1: Swamp, Vampiric Tutor/Imperial Seal --> Jeweled Lotus

Turn 2: Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Crystal Vein, Jeweled Lotus, Maralen of Mornsong, Opposition Agent.

Congrats; with four cards you locked everyone else out of the game on turn 2.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:14 pm 
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I think this card can only hurt your deck if like you’re playing a full proper 4 or 5c commander where this is really just ramp 1 at which point it’s a terrible ritual, so in most decks it’s worth using. But unless your deck can make use of this while you already have your commander out like Jhoira or Urza or maybe even like partners this isn’t a killer outside of the dream of always having it opening hand. It’s good but I’d probably place it below like Sol Ring


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:20 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Yeah, it's fast mana. But there already is fast mana in the format. This is not inherently more broken than LED, or Mana Vault, or Dark Ritual, or...

I mean, those are some of the historically most degenerate cards in magic, and I would argue that Jeweled Lotus is contextually better than any of them. To reiterate my stance, "the format doesn't need more fast mana". I think cheating on mana is good for the game (in moderation), but I take an exception to EDH and making some of the signature cards of the format Jeweled Lotus and Sol Ring. They're exciting cards that produce unexciting games.
Aaarrrgh wrote:
Also, you can't judge a card based only on its best case scenario. Yes, it can bring it a commander three turns early if you draw it at the right moment.. But most of the time you won't draw it at the right moment, and then it will be a dead card.

I could play this in my Kefnet or Etali deck, and if it's a dead card then it means I have my Commander in play and I'm already in a great position, and even if I don't use it to cheat out my commander early, it makes it easier to play it with counterspell backup or a haste enabler.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:20 am 
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I feel like this is probably good enough to find a slot in most decks that want it, and that most decks will want it. Its probably not a huge deal if it doesn't come down early, but its potentially game-swinging if it does come down early. Regardless of how strong that makes it on average, it arguably means it makes the meta as a whole a lot swingier, which is something people could rightly dislike.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:47 am 
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My guess is that we'll mostly just see an increase in cheap spot removal. Not to mention rule zero and the tendency for playgroups to self regulate their power level. I don't think this will be a big problem. I'm ready for the possibility I could be wrong, but I think the format will survive this without any major issues.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:44 am 
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i mean its probably not as bad as sol ring is which is a commander staple

if you're fine with sol ring i doubt this will cause any problems, at least on its own. if commander continues to get very cheap mana producers like this then the meta could eventually collectively shift to something less desirable

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