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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:35 am 
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(relatedly, I feel like there's too many 3p/potential 3p for them to all be 3p at this point *looks pointedly at HW*)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:36 am 
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Freddeh wrote:
Freddeh wrote:
_ExLight wrote:
Jeaus **** christ I'm just asking for a truce until we banned Zinger durif D4, then we'd play normally
and noone sane would **** kill me because that means Zinger wins and tey lose wtf


You're coming aggro at me literally right after I was advocating to not lynch you, you're doing this to yourself man if you can't see that I can't help you.


EBWOP: To clarify aggro at me wasn't based on that post specifically but one of the previous ones, I'm just citing another example. That said, you did the same thing with Aaarrrgh who is also a 3p who probably doesn't give a damn about you or Zinger either.
it's 4:35AM, I spent all night trying to defend myself and all I got back was ****
I'm tired and frustrated, I don't want to keep repeating myself for the 38836172839594937628th time
just **** hammer me already


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:37 am 
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@HW: I have no information on the matter. Why are you asking me specifically?

@exlight: you have a very weak understanding of game theory if you think no one would try to abuse the truce. Also, how do you know there isn't some role who wants Zinger to win? Or just a sore loser vig who shoots you out of spite? Or a random kill effect? There are many ways your plan could fail, and the fact that you are painting yourself as the one true savior really doesn't look good. I think it would have served you well to have dialed it back and between more diplomatic, but unfortunately it seems to be too late.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:38 am 
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yes there are many unpredictable stuff, but the truce would minimize them
if we didn't use the truce all these factors you mentioned would cause everyone to lose if we played normally


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:40 am 
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_ExLight wrote:
Freddeh wrote:
_ExLight wrote:
Jeaus **** christ I'm just asking for a truce until we banned Zinger durif D4, then we'd play normally
and noone sane would **** kill me because that means Zinger wins and tey lose wtf


You're coming aggro at me literally right after I was advocating to not lynch you, you're doing this to yourself man if you can't see that I can't help you.
what difference does it make at this point?
Is aggro == scum?
Am I not allowed to get frustrated over the most stupid lynch I've ever seen in my life? Defying all logic and common sense? Or is this a scumtell too?


No, but it sure doesn't ingratiate you to anyone that thinks you ARE telling the truth and makes it harder to want to form a case against it. Like, literally a post or 2 after I said we shouldn't lynch you I commented on something else and you started getting pissy about that too. Not to mention BOTH Arrrgh and I have said we think you're imploding town and you're still getting pissy about it.

On your end its the most stupid lynch you've seen in your life, and I've been there before, trust me, but acting out like this over it is not how to deal with it, as it ends up making your lynch completely useless since its the easiest thing in the world for scum to both distance from and jump on.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:41 am 
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_ExLight wrote:
yes there are many unpredictable stuff, but the truce would minimize them
if we didn't use the truce all these factors you mentioned would cause everyone to lose if we played normally


Sorry I'm with arrrgh here as well in that a truce would do absolutely nothing especially since you've overplayed your hand so now a potential outside party to the zinger/you deal could interfere, and scum will kill people period.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:41 am 
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I'm no saviour
I can't do **** alone
but noone here tried to think as a real group, only as Mafia vs Town
this isn't a normal ame goddamit
I just wanted to help everyone ffs
we were supposed to be all working together and I only heard people talking **** and backstabbing me


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:43 am 
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Stupid phone dying.Anyway, SMS, I kinda liked it better(The vote on him) before he actually placed a relevant vote, but even now it feels like he's the one, between the newcomers, that wasted most time not scumhunting until late in the day, and after that tunneled on ex, I eed to recheck the iso tho.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:43 am 
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@Fred:

We are different people after all. You may not be looking at those two, but I am. I have been since I've acumen read them earlier.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:44 am 
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Stupid phone dying.Anyway, SMS, I kinda liked it better(The vote on him) before he actually placed a relevant vote, but even now it feels like he's the one, between the newcomers, that wasted most time not scumhunting until late in the day, and after that tunneled on ex, I eed to recheck the iso tho.


see you make posts like this I want to think you're town again.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:45 am 
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I guess I should pop my two cents. Firstly, Ex always feels scummy. I can just never tell with him, but my gut is leaning me toward him possibly being scum this time around. I feel like an Ex lynch might be a productive flip for evaluation on Day 2. So I think I'm voting there as EoD approaches. Also, PK is maintaining silence and I doubt anyone is going to consider voting him now to add more pressure.

Minish is coming off as Townie to me because I know for a fact that as scum she cannot make an in-depth reads list. Like, she just can't get herself to make one that comes off legitimate. This is all meta though. However, I like to think I'm very good at meta reading her, plus I have a track record on ZD to prove that I tend to peg her alignment correctly, so consider that. Now, keep in mind that just because I think she might be Town, that doesn't mean I have to agree with every point of her reads list: everyone can possibly make errors in reads. I think Ex as a Town read is one point of confliction I have with that list, I think he's more null/leaning scum momentarily.

Plus I'm not feeling like Rubik is much of a threat in all honesty, so I disagree with Ex's opinion that Rubik should be the "Prime" lynch today. I also still hold that if Ex reallt believes that you should, well, be pushing for people to lynch Rubik. It's one thing if KoD is now Ex's top scum suspect, but to say KoD is secondary, and vote you primary suspect, that's all kinds of wrong in my book.

Unvote
Vote: Exlight

I'd like a vote count for the CS date before I place my vote on that.



Here he talks about reads on someone that is not ex I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:46 am 
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@Fred:

We are different people after all. You may not be looking at those two, but I am. I have been since I've acumen read them earlier.


The problem is, if ex flips 3p then it means practically nothing.

Though it would be good to know that ex is 3p.

Maybe we'll get lucky and hes actually scum all along with that actual role?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 am 
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Also if I had to guess, I might count as town for balance purpose, it is... complicated.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 am 
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_ExLight wrote:
I still maintain that there shouldn't be such a thing as a "lynchpin" role for town, the likes of which Ex has soft claimed. This is really basic game design.

17 minutes(?) remain
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean smh
And there should be 1 more hour remaining, I think. There's still hope.

A Lynchpin for X is a role that causes X to lose if it dies.

1) You claim that Zinger is a threat to everyone.
2) According to the OP, the standard Town and Mafia wincons are "all threats to {your team}" eliminated/dead, or this being unstoppable for the Mafia
3) Therefore, by your claim, neither Town nor Mafia could win with Zinger in the game. We could literally kill the entire mafia right now and the game would not end in a town victory
4) By your claim, the way to avert this is your own role.
5) Therefore, if you are gone, winning becomes impossible. (You are a Lynchpin, a role I do not believe would exist in a well-designed game)

I don't think this is a plausible claim. Something in here is a lie. Your lie? Maybe not, Rag did say this was something of a bastard game, so you could have the setup's lie by being told that Zinger is a threat when the truth is that your role just hates Zinger's.

The most logical term to assume is false is not 2; that's fairly cut and dry. 3 and 5 are conclusions reached from 1(+2) and 4, which are the only terms that can be contested. Therefore, either your role is not necessary to eliminate Zinger (4 false) or Zinger is not a global thread (1 false). Of the two, I find 1=False to be the more probable. than 4=False or Badly Designed Game.

I'm also in the habit of lynching liars. My working theory is that 4 is true, but that some of the details about your mechanic are not, and you exist as a 3rd party role who wins by eliminating Zinger or a mafia role that serves to eliminate Zinger when Zinger is capable of endgaming the Mafia faction (probably without being classified as a true "threat to the mafia" so they can still win without you). Of the two I find Lyncher more probable. Lynchers (3rd party with a specific target to eliminate) are typically scum and threats to the town.

??? (43 minutes?) Remain

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:48 am 
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I guess I should pop my two cents. Firstly, Ex always feels scummy. I can just never tell with him, but my gut is leaning me toward him possibly being scum this time around. I feel like an Ex lynch might be a productive flip for evaluation on Day 2. So I think I'm voting there as EoD approaches. Also, PK is maintaining silence and I doubt anyone is going to consider voting him now to add more pressure.

Minish is coming off as Townie to me because I know for a fact that as scum she cannot make an in-depth reads list. Like, she just can't get herself to make one that comes off legitimate. This is all meta though. However, I like to think I'm very good at meta reading her, plus I have a track record on ZD to prove that I tend to peg her alignment correctly, so consider that. Now, keep in mind that just because I think she might be Town, that doesn't mean I have to agree with every point of her reads list: everyone can possibly make errors in reads. I think Ex as a Town read is one point of confliction I have with that list, I think he's more null/leaning scum momentarily.

Plus I'm not feeling like Rubik is much of a threat in all honesty, so I disagree with Ex's opinion that Rubik should be the "Prime" lynch today. I also still hold that if Ex reallt believes that you should, well, be pushing for people to lynch Rubik. It's one thing if KoD is now Ex's top scum suspect, but to say KoD is secondary, and vote you primary suspect, that's all kinds of wrong in my book.

Unvote
Vote: Exlight

I'd like a vote count for the CS date before I place my vote on that.



Here he talks about reads on someone that is not ex I guess.


He does seem kinda detached with that post though, hrm.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am 
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is it that wrong to worry about a common threat?
is it that wrong to expect ONE person to offer themselves to help everyone, even who isn't their team?
is it wrong to expect a truce that only requires a little of honesty and patience?
what am I being lynched for? for being naive? stupid? idealist?
is it really because I seemed scummy? was it scum propped? was it only my fault?

If Zinger turns out to be way weaker than I expected then great
Good for you all, I was going to be useless anyway and you did an optimal lynch and I'm just being an overreacting bitch

otherwise, well, you had chances to stop it
more than one, more than two, more than three, more than four

goddamit, this game's overflowing with pride and selfishness and I really hope Zinger just wins at this point


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 am 
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_ExLight wrote:
I still maintain that there shouldn't be such a thing as a "lynchpin" role for town, the likes of which Ex has soft claimed. This is really basic game design.

17 minutes(?) remain
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean smh
And there should be 1 more hour remaining, I think. There's still hope.

A Lynchpin for X is a role that causes X to lose if it dies.

1) You claim that Zinger is a threat to everyone.
2) According to the OP, the standard Town and Mafia wincons are "all threats to {your team}" eliminated/dead, or this being unstoppable for the Mafia
3) Therefore, by your claim, neither Town nor Mafia could win with Zinger in the game. We could literally kill the entire mafia right now and the game would not end in a town victory
4) By your claim, the way to avert this is your own role.
5) Therefore, if you are gone, winning becomes impossible. (You are a Lynchpin, a role I do not believe would exist in a well-designed game)

I don't think this is a plausible claim. Something in here is a lie. Your lie? Maybe not, Rag did say this was something of a bastard game, so you could have the setup's lie by being told that Zinger is a threat when the truth is that your role just hates Zinger's.

The most logical term to assume is false is not 2; that's fairly cut and dry. 3 and 5 are conclusions reached from 1(+2) and 4, which are the only terms that can be contested. Therefore, either your role is not necessary to eliminate Zinger (4 false) or Zinger is not a global thread (1 false). Of the two, I find 1=False to be the more probable. than 4=False or Badly Designed Game.

I'm also in the habit of lynching liars. My working theory is that 4 is true, but that some of the details about your mechanic are not, and you exist as a 3rd party role who wins by eliminating Zinger or a mafia role that serves to eliminate Zinger when Zinger is capable of endgaming the Mafia faction (probably without being classified as a true "threat to the mafia" so they can still win without you). Of the two I find Lyncher more probable. Lynchers (3rd party with a specific target to eliminate) are typically scum and threats to the town.

??? (43 minutes?) Remain


Yeah if you're mafia this game you really stepped your game up from the last one. Or are warmed up lol.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:52 am 
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@Fred:

If he's actually 3p that has some sort of agenda in bringing Zinger in, then sure, I'd just have to reevaluate my outlook on both Funnier and Minish. But that's only if and when ExLight flips as 3p.

At some point hard facts/information will be needed to help solve/resolve issues in the game/with the players.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:52 am 
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_ExLight wrote:
I still maintain that there shouldn't be such a thing as a "lynchpin" role for town, the likes of which Ex has soft claimed. This is really basic game design.

17 minutes(?) remain
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean smh
And there should be 1 more hour remaining, I think. There's still hope.

A Lynchpin for X is a role that causes X to lose if it dies.

1) You claim that Zinger is a threat to everyone.
2) According to the OP, the standard Town and Mafia wincons are "all threats to {your team}" eliminated/dead, or this being unstoppable for the Mafia
3) Therefore, by your claim, neither Town nor Mafia could win with Zinger in the game. We could literally kill the entire mafia right now and the game would not end in a town victory
4) By your claim, the way to avert this is your own role.
5) Therefore, if you are gone, winning becomes impossible. (You are a Lynchpin, a role I do not believe would exist in a well-designed game)

I don't think this is a plausible claim. Something in here is a lie. Your lie? Maybe not, Rag did say this was something of a bastard game, so you could have the setup's lie by being told that Zinger is a threat when the truth is that your role just hates Zinger's.

The most logical term to assume is false is not 2; that's fairly cut and dry. 3 and 5 are conclusions reached from 1(+2) and 4, which are the only terms that can be contested. Therefore, either your role is not necessary to eliminate Zinger (4 false) or Zinger is not a global thread (1 false). Of the two, I find 1=False to be the more probable. than 4=False or Badly Designed Game.

I'm also in the habit of lynching liars. My working theory is that 4 is true, but that some of the details about your mechanic are not, and you exist as a 3rd party role who wins by eliminating Zinger or a mafia role that serves to eliminate Zinger when Zinger is capable of endgaming the Mafia faction (probably without being classified as a true "threat to the mafia" so they can still win without you). Of the two I find Lyncher more probable. Lynchers (3rd party with a specific target to eliminate) are typically scum and threats to the town.

??? (43 minutes?) Remain

this hurts me almost physically because I'm tired of repeating myself and I feel like people are doing this on purpose just to make me **** sick
go reread my **** posts because I already explained why this **** logic is wrong
I already explaine that my role doesnt work like this
And I already explained that Zinger isn't treated as an in-game threat until D8


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:54 am 
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can't wait to just **** die and have everything I posted previously ignorated as I watch my own team shooting itself in the face


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