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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:52 pm 
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That should be dance. Not make a deal. Way to mess up the quote. Maaan. :-(

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Zinger - Rubik, Rubik, Rubik, KoD, Numbers, Niklor, Scarlet, Neo, Mown (9)
Niklor - Zinger (1)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:57 pm 
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It is more than entirely possible Zinger getting voted, making us waste our lynch, etc... could be his goal. However, there is not a good alternative to trying things. Zinger has stated he doesn't believe it will end the day if we pile votes onto him. So, we should try that. After that, we can decide if it is a good decision to hold steady until day ends or think about any other alternatives. However, indecision on this issue just means it's something that will keep hovering over our heads.

There is no safe move. We don't know the full details of his seal, what weakens it, what Zinger can do to break it. However, we do know doing nothing about it will result in it breaking at some point.

@Zinger
Afraid to answer my last question, are you?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:15 pm 
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What question was that, Nik? I'm only skimming the thread from my phone whilst visiting family.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:19 pm 
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This one?
Niklor wrote:
@Zinger
A day not ending in a lynch wouldn't happen to weaken your seal, would it?

A day ending with no lynch wouldn't weaken my seal. It would prolong my invulnerability though, ever so slightly.

But that's boring. You guys should Lynch Rubik.

I don't know why you guys are so scared of me. I told you I'm not a threat at the moment. You know who is a threat to you even now? The Mafia.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:44 pm 
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@Mown, Zinger's NLP is the counter argument. Zinger has stated that the loopholes with which he can subvert belief are in place strictly to protect anybody he might share a team with. Using them for malicious deceit is against his NLP. What we can draw from this is that Zinger has not lied about his win condition. Since he has also said his winning the game means both town and mafia will lose, we can deduce that he is not pro-either faction, regardless of what his actual alignment is. So treating him like a self aligned player is the correct play regardless of if he is self aligned or not (keep in mind that he's allowed to claim self as mafia per his loopholes). Now extending his NLP to consider that he may be either town or mafia aligned, his NLP prevents him from lying to them. So, for example, if he was mafia he could claim self openly to town, but he wouldn't be able to lie to his mafia-bros about his role and win con, as doing so wouldn't be for their protection and thus do not fall under any loopholes. Similarly he cannot claim lying about anything he has presented as a "protective" angle as town aligned either. This means that at some point in the game he would have to come out, so jumping the gun is his best option at not being seen as secretive and suspicious. Now excluding all of the above, if Zinger is self aligned he really can't lie, as he won't have any mates to protect. This means that his loopholes would not be in effect and he would not be able to feign being town (feigning being scum would be pointless). Once again jumping the gun is in his best interest per his NLP.

Ultimately Zinger's hands were tied. If he were to start the game sans NLP, obviously it would have been noted and the other players immediately would have been suspicious of him (I think this would have been the better option from a win at all costs perspective, but I don't think that's Zinger's motivation towards mafia in general). If he starts the game with his NLP, he's forced into a situation where he pretty much has to jump out with his role early for the integrity of his NLP if he's going to claim anything at all (there's always outright refusal to answer any questions about his role or alignment), even though doing so makes him an enemy of everybody. He's banking on his protections to see him through.

If my memory serves right, Fruit and Turin are the only hold outs on voting Zinger. They should do so at their earliest opportunity.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:49 pm 
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@Mown: ^ What he said. :V

One thing that can be said about Zinger is that he is confident due to his invulnerability.

So why would he take the sequence of actions he has thus far taken? Possibly because he wanted to thinking that there is enough to unsettle people into not everyone piling votes onto him. Maybe he is extremely confident in how his role works. Either way, he's given us some hard facts to go on as Numbers has broken down clearly for us.

If you want to entertain that because Zinger hasn't said something makes it a likely possibility, then you are free to do so. Just be aware that should you, or anyone else, be the reason we don't get everyone voting on Zinger will make me consider voting you instead (since we wouldn't have everyone voting Zinger in the first place).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:57 pm 
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If only to let us move on, I will submit a vote for Zinger.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:07 pm 
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for future reference, I'm less likely to miss your vote if you use the standard "Vote: Playername" syntax

Vote Count
Zinger - Rubik, Rubik, Rubik, KoD, Numbers, Niklor, Scarlet, Neo, Turin (10)
Niklor - Zinger (1)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:18 pm 
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Is it just me or is there something wrong with that vote count?

I'm counting only nine names there, but there are 10 total votes. Someone has an additional vote power?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:25 pm 
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Rag removed Mown's name for some reason. Probably accidental?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:32 pm 
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Yeah let's just assume the guy playing mafia is actively trying to get himself killed.
To the extent of my knowledge, Zinger's NLP only limits him to telling the truth, except regarding his alignment. If there are any other details surrounding it, then I must have missed them, but I don't see anything within about misleading people with the truth, disregarding how that can be done unintentionally quite easily. As far as I know, he could just have said "My ability makes me hard to kill", and then just played on as any normal person, while some guy tries to NK him after a lynch fails, or someone investigates him to ensure he's town.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:44 pm 
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It was indeed accidental.

Vote Count
Zinger - Rubik, Rubik, Rubik, KoD, Numbers, Niklor, Scarlet, Neo, Mown, Turin (10)
Niklor - Zinger (1)

This should be correct.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:55 pm 
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@Mown, Zinger's NLP doesn't limit him to telling the truth, it bars him from being deceitful. While they sound the same, the limitations and allowances are slightly different.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:01 pm 
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After last game, we got a good look at Zinger and his NLP with regards to interacting with others.

He does indeed not allow himself to be deceitful. Would you like me to pull up relevant posts from him regarding this Mown?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:02 pm 
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@Fruit: Your vote on Zinger would be greatly appreciated to see if everyone voting him will result in his lynch.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Zinger2099 wrote:
I don't know why you guys are so scared of me. I told you I'm not a threat at the moment. You know who is a threat to you even now? The Mafia.


You will probably be a threat eventually, and it seems pretty hard to get a mafia lynch on day 1 with no info.

Vote: Zinger

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:11 pm 
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Also, for ease of reading, here are all of Zinger's posts thus far.

Note: There's nothing new in the spoiler below. It is simply Zinger's post from beginning till the end of page 5 (at 20 posts per page for me). Mostly this will make ease of reference easier for me if there is something specific I need to look up from his posts.

From Zinger
Spoiler


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:11 pm 
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I was just going with his statement for page 2, but if he said that in the previous one, I will take your word for it. Whether something is deceitful or not seems like something that could easily be up in the air though, and I don't see any net benefit in the things zinger has done within the amount of information I possess.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:14 pm 
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I guess we will know momentarily if this has accomplished anything.

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