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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:15 am 
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I don't really like monster's attitude... But yeah, goose, that was uncalled for man. Kinda disgusting, too. I was literally logging on to sign up for your game just now, but then I saw this... Meh. I agree with KoD.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:03 am 
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however, yes because we all received PMs with those special messages which were NOT part of the previous game, and we did nothing about that information we all had to make connections.


Imma take it you didn't read through those messages. They conveyed zero information. They didn't hint at black monster nor bastardity to the game. Had we all revealed day 1 they would have been thrown to the side because they were completely irrelevant to game solving. Monster just threw them out as a crutch to stand on because there aren't many, if any, communities that let you run unannounced bastard games. It's like that for two reasons, first players like aaarrrgh can avoid games they don't enjoy. Secondly is to avoid accusations of cheating. Because let's face it, monster could have instituted black monster half way through this game and there's nothing to indicate she didn't because of how much she wanted this role to be undetectable. The name calling is unnecessary but the accusations are fair, wether they prove true or not, by shear breakage of basic hosting etiquette.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:56 am 
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Queenie wrote:
however, yes because we all received PMs with those special messages which were NOT part of the previous game, and we did nothing about that information we all had to make connections.


Imma take it you didn't read through those messages. They conveyed zero information. They didn't hint at black monster nor bastardity to the game. Had we all revealed day 1 they would have been thrown to the side because they were completely irrelevant to game solving. Monster just threw them out as a crutch to stand on because there aren't many, if any, communities that let you run unannounced bastard games. It's like that for two reasons, first players like aaarrrgh can avoid games they don't enjoy. Secondly is to avoid accusations of cheating. Because let's face it, monster could have instituted black monster half way through this game and there's nothing to indicate she didn't because of how much she wanted this role to be undetectable. The name calling is unnecessary but the accusations are fair, wether they prove true or not, by shear breakage of basic hosting etiquette.

Some, like mine, were useless, but I don't think it's fair to say they were all completely irrelevant. Rag was flat out told she could expect a revival as soon as she died, and Dark was flat out told that the first revived player would be Red. Aaarrrgh's was the most influential of them all; in it, she allowed Aaarrrgh to use his end of Day ability to spy on someone's role during Night 0, giving him game-relevant information he shouldn't have otherwise had a whole Day early. When you add that to the fact that Aaarrrgh's role allowed him to see that other players also had secret messages that were explicitly redacted from his spying attempts, and I think there was enough information out there (had Aaaarrrgh come forward) to point to the fact that we weren't playing a carbon copy of the original game.

I don't think any accusations of cheating are fair when we all knew what we signed up for--Monster plainly said the game wouldn't be fair, and as far as I am concerned that's an admission that the game could be bastard. We all knew that, but only one of us couldn't handle it to the point of resulting to using downright disgusting slurs. "Unnecessary" is putting it mildly.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:16 pm 
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The only relevant thing in my personal message was a minor twist to the rules which gave the role its intended function during N0, the rest was fluff. Importantly, nothing in my personal message was relevant after game start. That's why I didn't think it strange that they were not included in my spying, because I assumed that they were simply irrelevant once the game had properly started. Looking back, I can see that I should have asked why they were redacted instead of simply not included, but it just never crossed my mind that something that major could be hidden that way.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:57 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
The only relevant thing in my personal message was a minor twist to the rules which gave the role its intended function during N0, the rest was fluff. Importantly, nothing in my personal message was relevant after game start. That's why I didn't think it strange that they were not included in my spying, because I assumed that they were simply irrelevant once the game had properly started. Looking back, I can see that I should have asked why they were redacted instead of simply not included, but it just never crossed my mind that something that major could be hidden that way.

Hard disagree if you say that your message was a minor twist in the rules. I was the Unknown monster in the first game, and in the first game I was flat-out unable to take on a role until after the first Day was over. You weren't just a cop, but a copy-cat cop, and you could have ostensibly started Day 1 as whatever role you had spied on Night 0, which might have really confused and thrown people for a loop had you thought to use that ability immediately and to be malicious about it. That's a significant development, IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:50 pm 
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@My Waifu:

I did, in fact, read through all the messages. Even if they were irrelevant, the fact they existed was something to be considered if we truly thought outside the box. For my part, I thought about the roles and the existence of the private message. After all, how weird would it be if someone else got my role and that exact message were it part of the role? Not to mention there was no "special message" in my role the first time we played this game.

So the thought was there; however, thinking that far ahead to connect to Monster having such an ability is certainly nigh impossible (barring Arrgh's). But we're all a bunch of paranoid people. Who knows what would have happened if people were more willing to talk/argue about what was happening when someone died completely and unable to resurrect?

I digress.


The point raised about Arrgh's msg is a needle in a haystack in a way. After all, without using it on Monster's role, we wouldn't have known about it. Despite that, our entire group was not communicating as much as we should've to even begin to address some things that should have been out of place in a game that, having been played before, had an open setup.


So yeah.

All things being equal, I have no immediate reason to assume Monster literally cheated (outside of just being a mod in her own game). For me, at the end of the day, it's just a game for me to enjoy with all of you. Allowing myself to fall into the idea that someone would play that "dirty" (as opposed to dirty in the game to gain an advantage) wouldn't sit well with me. I wouldn't want to subject myself to "abuse" with the same player I know to constantly not play "fair".

In other words, I trust Monster to have acted like anyone else in the game: playing by the rules set forth. Until such a time arises that irrefutable proof proves beyond all shadow of doubt that Monster actually "cheated", I've got no reason to think otherwise.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:56 pm 
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Obligatory hard agree with Zinger btw.

Because it needs to be said.

:V

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