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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:01 am 
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I've never found one using sblock. My experience is that spoiler (especially spoiler=) and sblock act differently even if they should be aliases.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:11 am 
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there's no limit: I've done posts with 40-50 of them and had no issues. what you may be running up against, though, is that the boards don't like it when you have both named and unnamed sblocks, so if it's breaking some of your tags, just make sure they all have names. or, if you don't want to name some of them, use [spoiler] for one and [sblock] for the other, as Tevish mentioned it treats those two as different things.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:24 am 
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Oh, that clarifies it. Thank you!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:24 am 
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Oops, I misunderstood.

I'll chime in and say in my experience, [spoiler] and [sblock] don't work when you use them in the same post, but considering I always default to [spoiler], it's possible I'm misremembering something. I usually do [spoiler=spoiler] if I'm doubling up on named and unnamed spoilers, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:42 am 
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I usually do [spoiler=spoiler] if I'm doubling up on named and unnamed spoilers, though.

Another useful tip, thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Let's say there's a character making a back-up of their most important memories, the ones they believe will help a forgetful future version of themselves to find themselves again and resharpen their focus. In particular, the first memory finds them as profoundly illiterate. I mean to portray the events accurately, supposing some kind of magic that allows for a perfect recall of the smallest relevant detail; for this reason, I'll experiment with deliberately writing various levels of poor English for the dialogues. That said, here comes the question: should the English of the narration (as usual, 3rd person close to the POV) be as bad as the POV's lines, or would it be better to use a less mangled grammar, typical of their modern counterpart?

Original narration:
-harder for me to write and (possibly) for others to read
-would encapsulate more accurately the thought process of the young self
-more visceral feeling of the setting

Reminiscent narration:
-easier to write and to read
-portrays the vision the modern self's view of their past
-more informed and factual analysis of the setting

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:24 pm 
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That said, here comes the question: should the English of the narration (as usual, 3rd person close to the POV) be as bad as the POV's lines, ...?

In my opinion, absolutely not. I think that writing the entire narration with intentionally poor grammar would make it very difficult to read and you would likely lose your overall point in the process. Additionally, if these backup memories were made any significant time after they happened (once the character became literate, for instance) then any narration would be from that level of experience anyway. And even if the original events were recorded at the moment they happened, they would still be perceived by the later version, so things like dialog might be pretty jumbled, but I would think that the description of what was being experienced would still be filtered through future-self narration.

That's my :two: anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Seconded. Honestly, my initial reaction that you were considering making a purposefully badly-written section was to suck in air through my teeth.

I am actually surprised to hear you entertaining the idea. It's through you and all the other ESL friends I've made here that I've had my eyes open to accents in writing. I consistently rail against writing out accents (not here, mind you, because I don't think anyone here actually does them, but the world of pony fanfiction, where a main character has a thick southern accent, is lousy with it) because it makes it harder to read for little gain when word choice alone can communicate that. With accents, the cross-section of people who can read your work has to be people who are fluent enough in both English and the accent being described for it to work; the cross section you're working with when trying to portray illiteracy is basically nonexistent, or at least so small as to be considered 0.

I do believe you can get away with a lot "in between the quotation marks," but I apply that almost exclusively to dialogue, because narration needs to be clear in order for the reader to follow along, regardless of the POV.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:46 pm 
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I'm kind of on the other end of the spectrum from Luna, but I agree with the master conclusion.

I am all for transcribing accents in dialogue as being OK. It adds important color and characterization in a lot of cases. If it doesn't, sure, don't bother with the accent but if it adds something to how you understand a character you can do it. For example, in HP Lovecraft's "The Picture in the House", we meet a particularly noisome and ancient homesteader, to who's house the narrator comes to escape a torrential rain storm. His first line is this -- “Ketched in the rain, be ye?” and that reinforces the mood of the scene and the depiction of the homesteader. If we were simply told he had a strange and archaic yankee dialect and then his lines were rendered in unaffected English (such as "Caught in the rain, were you?" for that first line) the piece wouldn't be nearly as strong. For a M:EM example, I transcribe the 'accent' (really speech pattern) of the Keeper of the Vault in "Maximilian Carter and the Temple of Origin" in order to help display how strange and to an extent scattered its thoughts are.

However, narration usually needs to be clear. As with all rules, this one CAN be broken... but it also exists for a reason. In "The Picture in the House" you always know what's going on despite the very thick transcribed accent because the narration is clean. If it was ALL as twisted as the homesteader's voice, it would be too difficult to parse. Keeper of the Vault would be even worse. All its sentences are subject-object-verb (a very unnatural pattern for English), so reading a story written like that would be a total chore, even for a native english speaker. Maybe you would still be able to work through it, but the labor of the reading would take you out of the events, rather than immersing you in them, when immersion is the goal of transcribing an accent in the first place.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:13 am 
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I didn't expect such an unanimous response, thank you all! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:39 pm 
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I didn't expect such an unanimous response, thank you all! :)

As with most writing "rules," this one is more a guideline than anything. There might be some story, or some kind of writing, where intentionally difficult-to-read narration could work. Just ask James Joyce. Here, for instance, is a sentence from Finnegans Wake:

James Joyce wrote:
Us shall be chosen as the first of the last by the electress of Vale Hollow, obselved the Mookse nobily, for par the unicum of Elelijiacks, Us am in Our stabulary and that is what Ruby and Roby fall for, blissim.

And the whole book's pretty much like that.

But for the most part, I'm of the opinion that a writer should make reading as easy as possible on the reader, unless there is some reason not to.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:21 pm 
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There is a Swedish author named Jonas Hassen Khemiri (I think, I didn't bother to look it up), and his highly acclaimed debut novel was written in deliberately broken Swedish. This was however very well justified, as the person narrator was an teenage immigrant who was actively resisting integration into Swedish society. It was also written in a way that despite the poor grammar, it was always clear what he was trying to say (which was a hint that the narrator actually knew the language better than he let on).

But that is of course the exception, not the rule. I would not recommend trying it unless you felt very confident you could pull it off.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:42 am 
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Szat's mention of Lovecraft makes me bring up the Dunwich Horror which I found difficult to read due to the Dunwichers... Dunwichians? Dun... people's accent's. Honestly, I got the impression that HP was just super racist against rural folk and tried to make them sound over the top.
...Here, for instance, is a sentence from Finnegans Wake:

James Joyce wrote:
Us shall be chosen as the first of the last by the electress of Vale Hollow, obselved the Mookse nobily, for par the unicum of Elelijiacks, Us am in Our stabulary and that is what Ruby and Roby fall for, blissim.

And the whole book's pretty much like that.
...

From beginning/end to beginning/end.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:12 pm 
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Angel is to Demon as Archon is to...?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:21 am 
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...devil?

Angels are good, demons are evil. Archons are lawful, devils are chaotic.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:40 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
...devil?

Angels are good, demons are evil. Archons are lawful, devils are chaotic.

I suppose I should have done a card search before asking; devils seem to have gotten bigger since I last looked. I was mostly familiar with them being the midget demons in Ravnica, and that trio of maybe human-sized ones from Gang of Devils.

But, then, if that's the case, is there a white mirror (or possibly green) to imps?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:52 am 
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It also makes sense to me that the law is a single solitary figure while chaos is represented by a group.

Not quite sure how to mirror imps. Imps don't seem to have the same kind of identity as the others.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Devils, for the record, aren't the same sort of axis as archons.
Devils are byproducts of demons, kind of a physical manifestation of their cruel intent.

Archons are kind of the rivals to angels.
So, what rivals demons then? Going by card type, maybe horrors?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:15 pm 
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I mean, not everything needs a binary opposition, especially in a property based on an odd number of philosophies.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Specters maybe? Archons are usually mounted, as are Specters, so they're opposite as supernatural flying cavalry.

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