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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:37 pm 
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On the other hand, every so often, I'm reminded to take a mental step back and look at how so many people (many of my own generation!) are so accepting of the impermanence of streaming services, and how easy it is to lose access to some show or movie which they enjoy on their subscription service. It's kind of terrifying to me. I shouldn't pretend I'm married to physical media, but the ability to preserve something you love and revisit it in the years to come if you own a physical copy of it, and the way people trade that away gives me a kind of existential dread.

I've been screaming about this to everyone at work, but nobody really understands until something they love is just GONE.
Then I get to be smug about it (kidding, I assure you)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:07 am 
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I used to not be too hot on streaming and I still really have a love of physical media, but I've kind of come around with the amount of anime I watch -- it just wouldn't be plausible to own, rather than access by subscription. For some, the only dvds (at least region 1 with English subs) that exist are hundred dollar premium packs or thirty dollar four episode packs and you need to track down all of them. A few even just plain don't exist.

If I really enjoy the heck out of a show, though, I will often go and buy a physical copy because you know what? That is going to stick around. It's not quite as perfect as books but I can still find fresh playback devices for my VHS tapes (Fond old memory: Taping things as you watch them on TV, so you can have his barely labeled VHS that's a double feature of Waterworld and Twister. I guess you could do something similar with screencap software, streaming, and a Digital file that could then be placed on DVD but somehow it feels a good deal more sketchy) so it's at least more reliable than the whim of the current license.

Underscoring both sides of the issue is my current frustration with Bakemonogatari. I'd watched about four episodes of Bakemonogatari when it vanished from Prime. Poof. Now, it is on Crunchyroll but Prime had episodes 13-15 that my digging up of watching/reading orders from fans of the franchise suggest are essential. They weren't part of the original airing, they were included with the first run DVDs, so they have a different license than the show in general and nobody seems to have them. The DVDs exist and I would be willing to own the show based on what I saw, but again, I need English subs and ideally region 1, which would set me back almost 200 bucks. If my Blu Ray player which I was fortunately gifted last year is Region 0 (universal) I might squeak by at 40, which would be very reasonable, but I don't know if there's any way to check whether or not the player is in fact Region 0. I think there's a bizarre hack to basically region 0 playback on your computer, but that it only works for dvds not bluray and requires some deep voodoo. As a result, I haven't been able to continue Bakemonogatari without either a wallet assassination or compromising the last arc. Honestly, gorgeous as the anime was, I might just read the books at this rate. That's an option for Bakemonogatari. If it were Dusk Maiden of Amnesia I was having a problem with (a show I absolutely love) I'd really be up a creek because the manga has never been localized.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:02 am 
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I could lend you the discs.

Also, I'll be at an anime convention this weekend, so chances are, I'll not be around.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Oh god it's almost November and I haven't looked into getting anyone their Christmas presents what do I do help

Yeah, I need to get going on this, too.

I had Amazon Prime for two or three months for the shipping a few years ago, and I literally never used the streaming video stuff, and then I cancelled it. Whenever anyone talks about some show, they almost always end the conversation with some version of "It's on Netflix. Check it out." Conversely, when I tell them about some show I used to watch back in the old days, they always ask "Is it on Netflix, or what?"

It's a very annoying cultural shift.

As an alternative to satellite/cable TV, I greatly prefer streaming as a method of finding new things to watch, but I have a really hard time making it over the mental hump of paying monthly for something I'm not using every day. I also basically only ever use streaming services to watch something I've heard of and want to watch without buying a physical copy. I grew up with a miser of a father and with... well, we weren't poor by any stretch, but saving money was something ingrained in me at a young age, so spending $30 or more on a movie or show I've never seen before, with the chance that I won't like it, is extremely hard for me to justify. I also have to wonder if never using a library might have something to do with it, as I just don't really have a concept of getting something physical without the intent to keep it.

On the other hand, every so often, I'm reminded to take a mental step back and look at how so many people (many of my own generation!) are so accepting of the impermanence of streaming services, and how easy it is to lose access to some show or movie which they enjoy on their subscription service. It's kind of terrifying to me. I shouldn't pretend I'm married to physical media, but the ability to preserve something you love and revisit it in the years to come if you own a physical copy of it, and the way people trade that away gives me a kind of existential dread.

On the other hand, there are some small advantages that streaming services such as Netflix provides, such as language learning. I've learned that Netflix has a variety of subtitle languages, and you can often watch a foreign show/movie in its original language, with that language's subtitles, which is actually a great way to learn a language. For anime especially, it seems about impossible to find a Western release that has Japanese subtitles, even when there is no official dub (and with region-locking being a thing, just buying a Japanese release isn't a feasible option).

You have three hands, do you? :V


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
On the other hand, every so often, I'm reminded to take a mental step back and look at how so many people (many of my own generation!) are so accepting of the impermanence of streaming services, and how easy it is to lose access to some show or movie which they enjoy on their subscription service. It's kind of terrifying to me. I shouldn't pretend I'm married to physical media, but the ability to preserve something you love and revisit it in the years to come if you own a physical copy of it, and the way people trade that away gives me a kind of existential dread.

I've been screaming about this to everyone at work, but nobody really understands until something they love is just GONE.
Then I get to be smug about it (kidding, I assure you)

I mean, I TOTALLY would be smug about it, and am intending to when it happens to a meatspace friend of mine, whom I've gotten into heated talks about this, and who outright admits that he doesn't see the inherent value of preserving things. While I'm certain he's young enough that these ideas of impermanence have been more a part of his life than mine, I blame one particularly long and philosophical pony fanfiction that opens with the following:
Background Pony wrote:
Dear Journal,

When did music begin? Did it begin with a question? Or an exclamation? Was somepony laughing? Or sobbing? Was that pony alone? Or was there an audience?

When I first attended Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns, I thought that I would find out all of the answers of how and where music began. What I discovered was that the best pieces of us—the artistic, soulful, and melodious pieces—have been lost forever. Equestrian Civilization is over ten thousand years old, and of those ten millennia only the last fifteen hundred years' worth of music has been recorded, preserved, or recited to this day.

What became of the music that is now lost to us forever? How many masterpieces disappeared into the great void of time? Just what kind of prodigies and geniuses exist in the past, and how many of their masterpieces will go unheard? Does the fact that their music no longer resonates in the halls of our kingdom mean that they've lost their worth?

I know I've quoted it before, because I think this is brilliant writing that is so very human even while it uses colorful ponies as characters, but the point is this: it's meant to invoke that deep, tragic loss as you realize the breadth and gulf of history that is completely lost to you, and probably make you nostalgic for it as well (a term that seems to only be slang right now as "anemoia"). I think (and I'm probably falling for the asymmetric insight fallacy again) that instead of that, my friend took the idea that, yes, we have literally lost most of human culture throughout history, as a reinforcement that he shouldn't care that things are lost.

Also, as I was thinking over this conversation today, it made me realize just why I prefer forums and similar social media (e.g. reddit, tumblr) over chatrooms, though I'd never been able to fully articulate it. I always thought it was the added time element, where I can sit on a thought for days (as I have done) before responding, instead of people wanting a response NOW, NOW, NOW; but I've come to realize it's the impermanence of it all. One particular sticking point for me, is that the community surrounding the Legend of the Five Rings card game, which I've been trying to get into, is on the majority based inside Discord, and there's comparatively very little discussion elsewhere. There's really no place to just have the kinds of long-form discussion about either the mechanical, gameplay aspect or of the lore without going into a 20,000-member Discord server (and even then Discord severely limits the size of your messages).

You have three hands, do you? :V

Four, thank you very much! I'm a perfectly normal Vedalken. Yes. Perfectly normal. Cold thought and all that. Yucky emotions. Mmhmm. Yup.
¬_¬

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:13 am 
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Here's the thing, though: physical media is no more permanent than digital, only in different ways. If my house burns down, I will lose my books and papers, but everything that is saved to the cloud will still exist. The library of Alexandria was full of physical media which have been lost to us forever.

Another issue is simply cost and logistics. I can't afford to buy all of the music I want to listen to, but I can afford a Spotify account. I spent a large part of my adult life traveling, and while it is possible to bring DVDs on the road, it is a lot easier to bring Netflix.

I guess in the end I'm not heavily in either camp. I love the feeling of a book in my hands, but being able to just download an eBook the moment I want to read it is amazing. I would love to build a CD collection again, but I don't even have a stereo anymore, it is just so convenient to have my music on my phone. I definitely think it is crucially important to keep records of human creativity and achievement, but I don't feel personally responsible for keeping those records. I will support the library system until my last breath, though. To me, the library is the best solution to all of this.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Impermanence is a natural part of the human condition. There are worse things to lose access to than anime; and the majority of those things will eventually happen. Enjoying life means creating memories and living in the moment; because you will inevitably have to let go of everything. Worrying about it just makes for worse memories. Living too much in the future can often be worse than holding onto too much of the past.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Here's the thing, though: physical media is no more permanent than digital, only in different ways. If my house burns down, I will lose my books and papers, but everything that is saved to the cloud will still exist. The library of Alexandria was full of physical media which have been lost to us forever.

Another issue is simply cost and logistics. I can't afford to buy all of the music I want to listen to, but I can afford a Spotify account. I spent a large part of my adult life traveling, and while it is possible to bring DVDs on the road, it is a lot easier to bring Netflix.

I guess in the end I'm not heavily in either camp. I love the feeling of a book in my hands, but being able to just download an eBook the moment I want to read it is amazing. I would love to build a CD collection again, but I don't even have a stereo anymore, it is just so convenient to have my music on my phone. I definitely think it is crucially important to keep records of human creativity and achievement, but I don't feel personally responsible for keeping those records. I will support the library system until my last breath, though. To me, the library is the best solution to all of this.

If I had any experience with libraries, I'd probably agree with you. I love the idea of a library in theory, but the handful of times I've gone to one was when we didn't have a printer, so I don't actually know how to use one (and I don't know if my local library is big enough to have much outside of books). I also love the idea of the internet at large being the world's library, though modern corporations and especially copyright laws are really holding it back from being used entirely for this purpose.

I would like to draw a distinction in your argument, though. I have pretty much entirely avoided using digital media as examples or talking points in my posts, but that's largely because I don't want to muddy the water between digital media and streaming services as you seem to do here. I do like digital formats for at least some forms of media (music and traditional books in particular), and it has its own advantages with things such as the cloud you mention as well as reproducibility, but the key issue is how the permanence of ownership of these things differs greatly from streaming services. Tevish already provided an example where he lost access as he was watching the show. It's a different kind of impermanence, but one that feels a lot worse because it's built to feel like the impermanence of ownership (such as being able to watch whenever you want, as many times as you want).

mjack33 wrote:
Impermanence is a natural part of the human condition. There are worse things to lose access to than anime; and the majority of those things will eventually happen. Enjoying life means creating memories and living in the moment; because you will inevitably have to let go of everything. Worrying about it just makes for worse memories. Living too much in the future can often be worse than holding onto too much of the past.

Between this, and a recent lecture recording I watched about the first recorded audio back in the 1880s, I realized that a lot of it is because of the particular time period that I grew up in, and that we are living in now. Up until that final decade of the 1800s, entertainment media such as plays and music could not just be relived on a whim, and access to artwork would have been restrictive simply due to geographical limitations. Being able to own a work is now simply a standard of human life, and since I grew up with that as an expected standard, it's weird to see people trade away that small bit of permanence.

It's fairly obvious that even people who are fully accepting of streaming services like Netflix, still get really attached to whatever show/movie they're watching on it, but I think your point is more that it would be better to live without that attachment, and be able to move on regardless of whether it's a physical copy you lost or a show getting caught up in licensing hell.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:03 pm 
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I used to spend too much of my life worrying about the past and sbout the future. I wish I had lived more in the now. Twas just the mad ramblings of an armchair astrophysicist. Don’t read too much into it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm 
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I do hope all my apparent ranting doesn't seem too negative. I'm not really getting worked up about it all, but sometimes posts tend to run long as I attempt to explain myself.

In other news, I've made up my pace for NaNoWriMo so far, despite skipping out on November 1st entirely (I was exhausted that day, to the point that I went to sleep as soon as I got home). 6200 words in the last two days, and Act 1 all finished up! I mean, sure it was my days off, but even so, that felt good.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:15 pm 
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In other news, I've made up my pace for NaNoWriMo so far, despite skipping out on November 1st entirely (I was exhausted that day, to the point that I went to sleep as soon as I got home). 6200 words in the last two days, and Act 1 all finished up! I mean, sure it was my days off, but even so, that felt good.

Very cool. Keep up the good work.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:54 am 
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Separate Thought Spaghetti :

Sometimes we just want someone to listen to us complain without offering solutions.

Everyone wants to feel like you are listening to what they are saying.

Is it more important to be right or to have people say you are right?

Years back, an impartial survey found that roughly 1 in 4 Americans thought the sun revolved around the Earth.

Don’t discuss wave theory with your friends before they’ve had their morning coffee.

The current theorized size of the universe contradicts theorized universal laws.

A hot dog is not a sandwich. It is a taco.

The proper response to a grammar nazi is to start using double negatives correctly and watch their heads explode from the diction involved.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:42 am 
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I cannot deny that I do not entirely disagree with your last point.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Pluto should have been grandfathered in as a planet.

If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

There are two kinds of electrons in the world; those that know where they’re at; and those that know how fast they’re going.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:25 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edge by now.

There are two kinds of electrons in the world; those that know where they’re at; and those that know how fast they’re going.

Ha! Liked the choice of words of the last one.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:45 pm 
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People seem to find Heisenberg funny; but no one gets my Chekov jokes. I’m probably including too many irrelevant details.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:46 am 
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Impermanence terrifies me. I don't like the thought that any insight I find interesting could disappear in a few seconds just because I'm to busy to entertain that particular notion. That's why, as soon as I get home I code my thoughts into binary and etch them into blocks of tungsten. Or, at any rate I have an ongoing project to scan my old school notes. I'd get a lot farther if my scanning software wasn't a train wreck of flashy, but nonfunctional UI. That's one of my biggest pet peeves- bad user interfaces. Anything that needlessly prevents me from performing the function I am trying to perform deserves my scorn. Bureaucracy is the UI of the real world.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:04 am 
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I see you do not understand how Tungsten works.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Short Version: Avoid direct exposure.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:36 pm 
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So, in some of my wandering thoughts, I realized something that our discussion on streaming services never touched on: Streaming is basically just a digital rental service.

I think that's both the big problem I have, as someone who never rented anything, and why some people are just completely okay with the concept.

Like, I remember the few times my family rented VHSs some decades ago: it was almost always to copy the movie onto another VHS so we could have it ourselves -- yeah, I know now it was illegal (statute of limitations has long run out, of course), but my point is that even when we rented, we rented so that we could keep it for as long as we wanted, instead of the week or whatever that renting was supposed to be for. I don't think this story adds much to the discussion, but I just felt like sharing.


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