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 Post subject: REDACTED: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:01 pm 
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failed idea


Last edited by preadatordetector on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WIP: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:05 pm 
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There's some considerable red flags just in that. Time travel and planar portals included.
I'd also suggest focusing on the northeast mythos rather than the southwest to avoid tapping into design space that's already been touched on.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: WIP: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Why are planar portals even a consideration with this? To me, that makes it sound like you're not confident your idea is capable of standing on its own. Especially since you want to seemingly overlay it with Jakkard and Ixalan (I don't believe I've heard of Hokia) -- that implies you're wanting a cross-contamination that's going to be problematic for differing reasons.

Jakkard is already a well-established (as in, the most popular) M:EM plane and I imagine a bunch of people are going to be resistant to ideas that have the capability for such major changes. Even if you don't do anything of import with them, it would be like the sword of Damocles hanging over Jakkard from that point forward, with the possibility that somebody might want to change the plane in big ways because those are already there.

Ixalan is a canon plane that already has a lot going on in the portion that we have seen to say nothing about the portion that we haven't, and involving planar overlay with a canon plane seems to me to be asking for trouble. I don't know what kind of actual worries are involved with messing with canon planes (that seems more Barinellos's specialty), but at the very least it seems to me that it would be easy for MaRo or Doug or someone to come out and say "there are no planar portals on Ixalan".

Now, I wouldn't say that planar portals themselves are completely out of the question -- after all, Yeong Eode is known to have a few safeguarded by her own cult -- but I'd suggest avoiding any already-established planes from either canon or the M:EM and instead have other completely new planes for it. That doesn't mean you have to create entirely new planes for each portal, but rather you can say "X creature and Y phenomenon came through Z portal".

Again, Barinellos can provide more legitimate reasoning as to why planar portals may or may not work, and in what fashion they should be portrayed.


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 Post subject: Re: WIP: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:13 am 
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Planar portals by themselves aren't actually that detrimental, but they require considerable more care and explanation, not only as a phenomenon, but also as a narrative device. The question of WHY becomes an immediate hurdle. Why interplanar instead of just intercontinental?

Beyond that, Jakkard and Ixalan both are almost certainly disqualified from being used in this manner. Both share one major thing that is woven into both their narratives: If you're there, you're stuck. Now, this is likely to be undermined in Ixalan's case, as it's all but certain Tezzeret will show up at Vraska's behest and remove the Immortal Sun via Planar Bridge, but Ixalan is also a canon plane and outside our control.

The basic rule is as follows in our use of canon material: Canon can have an effect on our material, but we cannot effect canon. Using a canon plane as a backdrop to explore a story is one thing, so long as the story's narrative footprint is basically neglible, but what's being proposed here isn't neglible. Even if it feels distinct and won't impact canon, the ripple effects of ANYTHING being revealed about a world outside the group control can devastate a story, and anything that story touches, and so forth.

Jakkard, on the other hand, is in our control, but using the method proposed feels like it goes against the spirit of the plane and clashes with established ideas about how the world functions. It's less severe and with a proper argument, you could probably convince people, but that's likely more work than just finding an alternative.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: WIP: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:24 am 
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what i tried to do


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 Post subject: Re: WIP: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:10 am 
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You're being very hard on yourself. In my opinion, you're trying to do something very ambitious about delicate plot devices (it's easy to mess up spacetime warping stories) with, I assume, not a lot of experience. If you really care about that story, strip it to its very bones and patiently rebuild its outer layers.

I wanted to make a story where there's a protagonist that wants to change history, but the protagonist's actions caused uncertainty in the worst possible way. I also wanted to create a story entailing a plane that gets things (many bad things) because of actions that they do not know about nor understand.

This outline doesn't mention time travel, planar portals, anything of the sort. Use this as a starting point.

Example: the protagonist has discovered a way to access the heart of the plane, and believes to be able to improve the plane by connecting to it. Their inexperience causes more harm than good until they realize X. Optional: being connected with the Heart warps your perception of time: the protagonist gets to see the long-term results of their meddling because each connection hibernates them for many years. (unless the protagonist is the ultimate loner, this will probably will mess them up emotionally)

Quote:
The new primary rule/defining feature of this plane is that it clones things from planes that have 'walker resistance. Part of the idea for it is that the plane subverts 'walker resistance, but only through a one-way path. Tons of things go in, 'walkers can come out if they aren't cloned, but the plane doesn't dump anything to a place with 'walker resistance.

These are treated as spirits. They are inherently an unsustainable construct but when they appear they bring a major impact to the rest of the world.

The paradox with this plane is that it takes from the most isolated parts beyond a planeswalker barrier.

I idea of the echoes/clones, but I don't see its purpose. Again, suggesting alternatives is easier if one knows why the parts of the setting are there, and you rarely say why do you want to add X to the wonderful crucible of writing. Why cloning Rattlers, Vash and Torrezon when you could have your own Snakes, Viashino and Vampires with similar traits but more space for customization? I'm not saying it could be done, but space-time-planar shenanigans need a solid narrative reason to be there.

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 Post subject: Re: REDACTED: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:45 pm 
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I refuse to take the route of "heart of the plane" without any native-american mythology to tell me that it is the right path to take. I take a hardline stance against that kind of thing even though I tend to abuse spacetime more (because I find spacetime cooler and I'm biased as hell).

Sorry.

The aforementioned bias also is involved in why I disliked Jakkard's "mana is life" angle, but perhaps having highly contrasting biology between the natives of this plane and Jakkard's would add an interesting element. Instead of "mana is life", we could have "mana is poison". But I'd probably not explore that angle for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: REDACTED: Fur Trade
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:59 pm 
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It's alright, it was just a suggestion to help you brainstorm or something.

(because I find spacetime cooler and I'm biased as hell).

I get that, but does the "space" part have to interact with other planes? Another idea: as of now, we know that artificial planes tend to collapse after the Mending, and we assume it always means literal, material crumbling. What if this plane collapsed laws first? As it approaches oblivion, the normal fabric of space, time and mana starts glitching and warping: plenty of starting points for spacetime shenanigans that are contained within the plane.

There may be echoes of strange creatures too, enigmatic apparitions of alien beings that eerily remind of certain other planes, without being too set in stone for a bit of plausible deniability :D

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To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

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