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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:55 pm 
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War of the Spark: Forsaken releases tomorrow so I thought I would create a thread for any of the other masochists out there that are actually going to read the book like me. What plot elements or story beats would you like to see?

For me, personally, I'm going to continue to be disappointed when Nissa faces zero consequences for abandoning her Oath in Dominaria.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:46 am 
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I'll probably pick it up
I struggled through worse magic plots than this

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am 
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I'd gladly buy it just to stamp Granny Goodnesses's funny faces all over the pages.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:44 pm 
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I'm probably just going to post randomly as I read the book if that's alright.

On chapter 8:
Spoiler


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:26 am 
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I'm honestly enjoying it more than the previous entry.
Not very far in, but just not having things laid out with any foregone conclusion makes reading it more interesting.

Though good lords, there's a lot of sex in the early portions of this thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:16 am 
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Between whoom?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:24 pm 
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While I want absolutely nothing to do with any of Weisman's Magic "novels", I casually checked #mtg on Twitter (don't have an account there), and apparently some people are super upset because the new novel shoots down that cringey ChandraXNissa thing..? There's even serious talk about a petition to declare the book non-canon. And from there, the rabbit hole goes even deeper, like people dragging that novel by Nic Kelman into it again, including shots at that Oko character which Kelman apparently was responsiblefor creating... And all of that has something to do with women in Magic or something?

Highlights of the absurdity include:

https://medium.com/@aemarling/nic-kelma ... d9c1edca71

(I guess this Marling guy isn't working for WotC anymore? Thank god...)

and

https://twitter.com/survivorevan/status ... 0227241985

(Also, what is this alleged discrimination of a transgender pro? Was that the soulless monster who defaced those Guru Lands? I don't follow the pro scene at all, but when people start defacing Guru Lands, I have questions. And judgements. And a bank account for them to transfer the excessive amounts of money to that they have no constructive use for.)

So let me get this straight (no pun intended): Those people were quiet when Tarkir gave us fake Elder Dragons and continuity-wrecking "time travel", kept mum when Magic Origins destroyed its five main characters with an overdose of hamfisted retcons and said nothing when Core 19 ruined all Elder Dragons forever, but ChandraXNissa is the hill they are going to die on??? You know, the thing that only existed because the original ChandraXGideon thing got the exact same treatment that ChandraXNissa is getting now (namely saying it was "only a phase" or "just a crush")? If hamfisted PC points have become more important than actual continuity and Kelman's old novel supposedly has a worse impact on Magic's story than his actual work on, you know, Magic's story, I really don't know what to say to those people. Do I want Kelman fired? Yes of course I do, but I want him fired because he's an incompetent hack who is neither willing nor able to do the job he was hired for. I couldn't care less about some manufactured outrage about some novel he wrote years ago (that apparently didn't cause any outrage when it came out, although it was supposedly a bestseller?).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:03 pm 
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Well, there is an ocean of difference between **** storyline decisions and actual potentially criminal behaviour. Not going to cast stones but being upset at people sexualising preteens is a valid concern while Tarkir's mess is simply frustrating and stupid.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Well, there is an ocean of difference between **** storyline decisions and actual potentially criminal behaviour.
There is, but the last time I checked, Kelman's novel was a work of fiction and not his autobiography (or an expression of his personal views, as far as we know). And I think it's silly how quickly Twitter escalated and drew a forced connection between ChandraXNissa being shot down and Kelman's novel.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:23 pm 
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It's Twitter. The platform is only really living to be outraged.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
It's Twitter. The platform is only really living to be outraged.
Nothing to argue about there, yeah.

Sometimes I just find myself astonished at the things they choose to be outaged about. I think this controversy in particular shows that they don't even care about the actual quality and internal consistency of the story*. For all they care, it could be trash as long as it's "diverse" and "inclusive". Let's hope WotC doesn't start listening to them any more than they already do. Maybe they'll even learn their lesson about not trying to please the twitter crowd in the first place (though I doubt it). Those people will never be satisfied no matter how "diverse" and "inclusive" everything is.


*Though in fairness, there was a lot of roasting Wesiman's new novel simply for the bad writing, too.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:07 pm 
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I think you are coming at this from the wrong angle. From what I understand, it the gnashing of teeth over the Chandra/Nissa drama mostly revolves around a feeling of betrayal. As you pointed out, WotC sinking that 'ship is really no different then how they treated Chandra and Gideon, but I think the key difference is that the people who are most angry in this moment are feeling hurt for more personal reasons and they have built up a community and social media chamber to help spread their dissatisfaction with greater efficiency than those of us with older story quibbles. For some of them they are dealing with a blow to what they saw as representation, and to be fair, I can see why they are angry. Wizards took a long while in stringing those story fans along, dangling a shiny thing in front of their eyes and just out of reach only to yank it back and throw cold water on their hopes. For some of them, they are also willing to die on this hill not because it is more important in the grand scheme of the continuity of the Magic Story, but because it is likely the hill that got them started exploring the Magic Story in the first place. The Gatewatch Story and the blossoming relationship between Chandra and Nissa was their on-ramp into Magic lore. It's their home turf of sorts. I have the luxury that my on-ramp and "hill" is the Weatherlight Saga, which is pretty settled in stone at this point and only gets some occasional interesting non-cannon tidbits from MaRo on occasion. I sympathize with those who aren't having a great time with the Story right now, as it has been a hit-or-miss-miss-miss mess for a while now, and I'm certainly not going to deny them their anger, though I do feel it is a bit over dramatic on some cases.

For what it is worth, I wish WotC had taken the plunge and given us the representation that they were hinting pretty hard at for the last few years. It would have cost me nothing that Wizards hadn't already discarded and it would have made a very vocal online fanbase happy.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:50 pm 
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The thing about representation in this exact case is that the book still has a queer couple in it and they REALLY play to that as well. Ral and Tomik might not have the slow burn ship that chandra and nissa teased for a long time, but it's an explicitly stable and healthy relationship instead of the absolute mess of dumb bullcrap that the Gruulfriends were.

On the feeling of betrayal and the on ramp, these are the same folks that were celebrating them murdering the hypotenuse by killing Gideon. It's hard to be sympathetic to their plight because they weren't sympathetic to anyone that felt Gideon's loss.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:12 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
[...] and they have built up a community and social media chamber to help spread their dissatisfaction with greater efficiency than those of us with older story quibbles.

Not to mention the social media echo chamber. I'm not going to claim that old-style forums like these don't groupthink, but I feel like certain aspects of social media fanbases in particular amplify just about everything they like or don't like. While I think ChandraxNissa may have been at least quasi-canon if not canon outright before being busted, I've seen the exact same response to non-canon pairings being busted, because the hive, particularly twitter, has the capacity to work itself into quite the frenzy turning what they'd like to see, into what they see, into what they feel they deserve, into what they feel entitled to.

This is part of why it's a general rule of mine to not wade into twitter too often. I don't want to encounter that spiral and I sure as hell don't want to become it.

And like Barin said, it's kinda hard to feel sympathy for the mob (rather than individuals, who can get some empathy on a case-by-case basis) after how just about everything from Origins on and especially C19 on has gone down.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:05 pm 
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I agree with everything said so far; I understand the frustration, but I'd be lying if I didn't feel a bit of schadenfreude after how Gideon/Chandra was treated. That said, this isn't a unilateral decision even inside WOTC.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:22 pm 
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I'm so glad that terrible ship is dead.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Jivanmukta wrote:
I'm so glad that terrible ship is dead.

Based on VLW's post, beware -- That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Jivanmukta wrote:
I'm so glad that terrible ship is dead.

Based on VLW's post, beware -- That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

Get thee back to the moon Emrakul.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Chandra x lili was always better

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:48 pm 
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Jivanmukta wrote:
I'm so glad that terrible ship is dead.

Based on VLW's post, beware -- That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.


Doug has and will forever be worse than Brady.

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