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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:34 pm 
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We don't get to come up with our own keywords? Oh well.
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[I'm done, I think.]

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:50 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
For now, the mechanics Design is using are the ones that are going into your world, and you need to find homes for them. Anything extra may come into play later.

I do have one small criticism about the ones I have, random though they may be.
Vanishing is an easy 3 point lay up.
The other two AREN'T creative demense. They're design's mechanisms.

Surge had no flavor to start with and actually runs directly contrary to the world theme.
Absorb is on.... 1 card. While mechanically sound, it REQUIRES a new keyword. Creative demands that right in this situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Surge had no flavor to start with and actually runs directly contrary to the world theme.

While Surge can have a place in a world where you GOTTAGOFAST (TM) like mine, I agree that the existing cards do basically nothing to portray the strong flavor a set-defining keyword should have.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Surge had no flavor to start with and actually runs directly contrary to the world theme.

While Surge can have a place in a world where you GOTTAGOFAST (TM) like mine, I agree that the existing cards do basically nothing to portray the strong flavor a set-defining keyword should have.

The mechanic could be invoked in using WORSE spells for surge costs, but then the name clashes with the purpose.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Now the post where I actually do work rather than cackling like a madman.

:w::u::b::r::g:: Phasing
Phasing is the key mechanic of the set, as of the mechanics it's the one that most strongly evokes the unreality of creatures involved. Different factions and creature types, however, use Phasing in different ways. The Grand Carnival uses phasing in the most 'traditional' sense: Flitting in and out of being, their works (particularly global enchantments that really mess with things and big creatures) have phasing as a drawback to justify a lower cost or more potent effect. Further, every color should have a french vanilla creature with Phasing or Phasing and one other keyword, ideally an evergreen, to help teach the basics of Phasing. Most of the set, however, will endeavor to use Phasing in a more creative manner.

For instance, when the "Nightmare" type first gained a tribal identity in Torment, they were marked by taking something away when they entered the battlefield and giving it back when they left the battlefield. :b:-aligned Nightmares in this set will harvest some of that creative DNA, but use Phasing's tech for a cleaner and potentially more weirdly interesting execution. For instance, an equivalent to long-time favorite Faceless Butcher would instead feature the rules text "When {this} enters the battlefield, target creature phases out. It can't phase in as long as {this} is on the battlefield". While this can only hit permanents of some description (unlike the classic Nightmares) it will not necessarily appear on every nightmare, and it denies the victim critical ETB and LTB abilities. Some nightmares might use the effect more like the :u: nightmares of Judgment or the Champion mechanic, and hold in phased-out state something YOU control. Lesser examples may have a forced phase-out with only a one-time moratorium against coming back "Target creature phases out. The next time it would phase in, it doesn't." or simply provide a momentary phase analogous to a tapdown effect without a "Remains tapped" clause. These effects would mostly be black with a little bleed into blue for the Enlightened, who would have the signature take on Phasing of "Phasing Emerge" where a new creature is 'revealed' as the true form of something that already existed (by phasing out one of your own creatures).

The Oneironauts, by contrast, are all about controlling Phasing. Blue cards (which they share with the Enlightened) can often phase themselves out despite not having phasing, like Mist Dragon or Rainbow Efreet, as well as, in white (and shared with the Heartforge League) cards that can prevent phasing, either their own or those of others. Oneironauts would also, unique to their faction, have a couple cards with abilities that could be activated while phased out (possibly only while phased out). This is because the Oneironauts delve between levels of reality, so with their gear they can stay 'in contact' while being physically trapped in some illusory labyrinth.

The Heartforge and Eternal Empire don't largely mess with Phasing, since they're interested in crafting the 'real' -- their archetypes overlap with factions that do so they will have some Phasing cards, but they don't by in large have their own spins on it.

The most notable visual cue for Phasing would be the Haze of Reality, as discussed in the general "Smoke and mirrors" entry -- the colorful, sparkly nebular smoke. This fits in to the Oneironauts playing with Phasing the most (even if they don't have the most Phasing cards) because the Phasing Smoke is closely related to their signature Smoke


:b::r::g:: Monstrous
Monstrous is a key ability for the Grand Carnival and Eternal Empire, shared slightly with the Enlightened and Heartforge League thanks to their partially overlapping colors. Monstrous typically appears on "real" creatures with the ability to become "Unreal" such as beasts being 'dreamed on' as discussed earlier. Monstrous creatures represent beings with multiple layers of reality. Conceptually, the less impressive form (Pre-monstrous) is usually "what exists" while the monstrous form represents an outside influence thinking that being into a new and more fearsome state. The Enlightened-faction Monstrous creatures, though, much like the top end of their Phasing entries, are thematically in their 'illusioned' state UNTIL they become monstrous. Essentially, if the Grand Carnival and Eternal Empire are using Monstrous to represent things like Mommy Fortuna's Carnival in The Last Unicorn (where various mundane and even unimpressive creatures were placed under illusions to let normals see them as monsters), the Enlightened instead discover the Rabbit of Caer Bannog (of Monty Python and the Holy Grail fame) -- a creature that looks very harmless but is actually deadly.

Thematically, the Heartforge (in their red component) and the Eternal Empire use Monstrous in the same way: Bringing the world in line with what they believe it should be. Both these factions would be the thematic sources for monstrous-enablers, such as creatures that benefit your monstrous creatures or spells that get stronger as long as you control a monstrous creature. These don't fit with the Grand Carnival because the Carnival doesn't have the dedication or higher purpose to maintain or support their phantasmagorical creations (in fact, a crossover use for Carnival-aligned creatures might be creatures with a very cheap Monstrous cost that have Phasing as long as they are Monstrous)

A visual cue for Monstrous would be a creature depicted with elements from an entirely out of character art style. If the photoreal beast has cartoon or surrealist horns and tusks (or a cartoon peril has photorealistic claws), chances are it only "gains" those when it becomes Monstrous. If a Monstrous card is strongly associated with a faction that doesn't support the bold art-style mix (ie, a faction other than the Grand Carnival), it should still have a visual "Illusion effect" over parts of its body, like those monstrous additions being made of swaths of pattern, hard-light glow, or shaped out of the signature faction Smoke. Another option for Monstrous that would be unique to the carnival would be to have the Monstrous form feature prominently in the creature's reflection in one of the faction's mirrors, but we would prefer to keep it tight with "Distinct unreal bit".


{Cycles, all colors}: Epic
Thematically, Epic should probably be tied into the twist, that even what the natives of the world believe to be solid is, in fact, mutable illusion, just far more advanced than those they dream up. Essentially, each Epic spell could be a different vision of the 'truth' behind all the illusions, and represent the caster both going mad and gaining incredible power from understanding what they saw. This seems to line up with the Enlightened faction, but while the Enlightened themselves are Blue and Black, their presence doesn't deny individuals of other colors a chance of seeing the truth: Epic spells could represent the grand vision that the Eternal Empire of the Elves have for the world, or the personal epiphany of a Heartforge League member (probably a legendary member?), the scientific discovery of Oneironauts plumbing the depths of reality, or the utter havoc of the Carnival's reign where truth and illusion become one. Since there's going to be one Mythic cycle and one Rare cycle we think the rare cycle could represent grand illusions while the mythic cycle could represent epiphanies of "truth". The visual cues for Epic should probably be fairly tight, and also related to the original epic cycle: the caster or focus of the Epic effect should be center stage. We'd like one cycle, the "Illusion" cycle, to have a circle or group of figures dreaming up the epic effect, while the "Epiphany" (mythic) cycle would be marked by a single figure bearing witness.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:49 pm 
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???: Epic
We'd like to know what Design is doing with Epic, whether they actually intend it to have a significant 'presence' or whether it will just be a cycle or two as in its first appearance. Thematically, Epic should probably be tied into the twist, that even what the natives of the world believe to be solid is, in fact, mutable illusion, just far more advanced than those they dream up. Essentially, each Epic spell could be a different vision of the 'truth' behind all the illusions, and represent the caster both going mad and gaining incredible power from understanding what they saw. This seems to line up with the Enlightened faction, but while the Enlightened themselves are Blue and Black, their presence doesn't deny individuals of other colors a chance of seeing the truth: Epic spells could represent the grand vision that the Eternal Empire of the Elves have for the world, or the personal epiphany of a Heartforge League member (probably a legendary member?), the scientific discovery of Oneironauts plumbing the depths of reality, or the utter havoc of the Carnival's reign where truth and illusion become one.
You are likely to get a rare cycle and a mythic cycle.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Surge had no flavor to start with and actually runs directly contrary to the world theme.
Absorb is on.... 1 card. While mechanically sound, it REQUIRES a new keyword. Creative demands that right in this situation.
Design thinks that they can make it work and they are willing to put the time into testing to prove their point. Your Creative rep on the Design team comes back from the latest Design meeting and says that MaRo isn't budging on this until they are done with testing. He says that the Absorb mechanic can maybe fit in creatively with creatures that consume ambient kinetic energy of their opponents to substitute for the loss of other energies in this dying world. Also, Surge could maybe represent a group or race that maybe knows about how the world is ending and is using the "wake" of certain spells to help drag their own magics along to fruition.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:40 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Design thinks that they can make it work and they are willing to put the time into testing to prove their point. Your Creative rep on the Design team comes back from the latest Design meeting and says that MaRo isn't budging on this until they are done with testing. Also, Surge could maybe represent a group or race that maybe knows about how the world is ending and is using the "wake" of certain spells to help drag their own magics along to fruition.

The key part of this is that spells do not get better.
They get WORSE. The magic is, in simplistic terms, running out.
If they want to play ball and diminish results on the cards for cheaper costs, then it still fits in execution, even if the keyword name clashes.

And, to be quite honest, I'm not going to flavor a mechanical design like this any more than it was initially flavored if it fights the world it's put in.
If design wants it, I'm not going to fight it, even if it screws up the theme, but it might as well be Cycle for as flavorful as it'll be. (just like the first time)
Quote:
He says that the Absorb mechanic can maybe fit in creatively with creatures that consume ambient kinetic energy of their opponents to substitute for the loss of other energies in this dying world.

Contact the art team and tell them no creature with absorb should be a physical fighter.
Soldiers and the like will NOT have absorb, it must strictly represent a MAGICAL interaction.
This means wizards and clerics. The visual cue will be, essentially, Circles of Protection.
What's more, there must be cards that track and benefit from the prevention of damage.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Make a villain. Someone wasteful and stupid that would set the world on fire to document the screams that follow it. Or, an alternative would be power surges. In crappy electricity infrastructure and/or in thunderstorms, a power surge can break a lot of stuff. Also, piggybacking on others' spells is a good idea.

Absorb isn't as bad as one would think. Consuming kinetic energy for sustenance is actually pretty good and could easily fit a tanky character. Just put it on some kind of monster or freak that mutated to act like this. Although realistically, the rate of evolution would be a lot slower and is the primary reason why the current rate of global warming is a bad thing for life on Earth. I'd actually argue against absorb being on a magical fighter, as that's implying the mage is expending energy to prevent damage, which is something that they can't afford to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Make a villain. Someone wasteful and stupid that would set the world on fire to document the screams that follow it. Or, an alternative would be power surges. In crappy electricity infrastructure and/or in thunderstorms, a power surge can break a lot of stuff. Also, piggybacking on others' spells is a good idea.

Screws with the motifs too badly. It's a gray and black world, not black and white. The villain is the establishment and their motivation is to keep the world from falling apart. Having a villainous aspect outside of that vein pulls focus, not to mention as what is set up as a primary mechanic to hang identity on, it would be WILDLY misfitting to give it to a minor speedbump villain in the first place.

As to the other side, power surges would effectively just mean The Roil. Mana is supposed to be draining, not surging.

Quote:
Absorb isn't as bad as one would think. Consuming kinetic energy for sustenance is actually pretty good and could easily fit a tanky character. Just put it on some kind of monster or freak that mutated to act like this. Although realistically, the rate of evolution would be a lot slower and is the primary reason why the current rate of global warming is a bad thing for life on Earth. I'd actually argue against absorb being on a magical fighter, as that's implying the mage is expending energy to prevent damage, which is something that they can't afford to do.
No kinetic energy. That already just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Beyond that, it's once again a conflict of motifs. This is NOT supposed to feel like an organic world and having something biologically driven is where it clashes.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Hey, so... I have a problem with absorb, related to issues of the color pie.
White is the only color allowed to prevent damage. So how badly can I bend the pie to get absorb elsewhere?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Green as a generic "I be tough", red as an alternative to toughness (particularly on X/1s)? It's sort of like green does pump and most of Bushido's mechanical relatives were Green but Bushido itself was white/red/black with the Samurai tribe.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Thallids. Put absorb on those guys. They kind of have the right flavor in Dominaria iirc. They can take punishment and use it to reproduce or create saprolings.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:55 pm 
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My only gripe is trying to balance out the colors with these keywords, but I think part of this will have to be resolved through evergreen or other mechanic support. (Can't even get this to quite work with 3-color groupings, which is what I settled on.)

Morph


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:54 am 
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Just a reminder, you're basically looking for flavorful homes for your mechanics this round, preferably in at least two colors. If there is an imbalance, trust that the Design or Development teams will plug those holes with other, non-named material. Your big goal is to place the mechanics in your world and tell us what sorts of flavor they represent, and/or how you choose to present them.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:43 pm 
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You know, at this point I realize how busy and unfocused my set seems to be thus far, and I'm kind of hoping we get a trimming stage, because if we just keep adding, my plane/set is going to be a mess.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:09 am 
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I have to admit, I'm feeling a bit minimalist in my endeavor purely because I'm not deeply exploring the details of my entry, though I think I'm providing enough meat to each.

Vanishing
:r:> :b:> :w:> :u:> :g:
Vanishing's visual cue is identical to its previous incarnation.

Though the world itself is slowly coming apart, such continental collapse takes eons. The effect on smaller existences, however, requires far less effort. Those exposed to enough chaos, by proximity or direct contact, suffer a horrifying fate as their very being is slowly unraveled.

The beasts and bandits of the Edgelands are the ones who primarily suffer such a fate, but even knights and soldiers set to guard against the incursion are susceptible to the condition. Very few who are afflicted with the chaos can survive for long before they succumb to oblivion, though some claim there are magics which can forestall such a fate.

(Green, being the most stable and least active color of the world, gets virtually nothing, while black and red, the primary colors associated with the Edgelands, have the highest concentration.)

Surge
Primary :r::u: Secondary :b:
In order to play into the identity of the world and distinguish Surge against previous uses, as well as open new design space, Surge costs will NOT be based on mana, but the cost of either life or permanents.

Magic has become more unstable as time wears on, especially magic of a disruptive nature. This has manifested as spells taking their toll from the fabric of existence if mana becomes overtaxed in an area. Such spells, when misfired as they are, tend to have wild effects sometimes creating a power far in excess of the expected results.

The more stable forms of magic don't seem to suffer from the chaotic surges, a fortuitous thing since much of the Core council's agents primarily rely on such sorcery. However, other aspects of their magic can be affected by it, and even within the stability of the Capital, such surges can occur, proving it is not a matter of distance to the chaos that causes the turmoil.

Absorb
:w:
Each instance of absorb (IE Absorb 1. Absorb 2. etc) will have a unique rune as part of their visual identity, meaning a series of concept pieces representing each degree of absorb, creating a commonality and sense of continuity to the mechanic and world. Absorb, as an action, will carry a Circle of Protection visual cue.

The most notable and potent magic at the Core council's disposal, it is an aegis to not only individuals, but the very walls that enclose the cities themselves, creating a safe place immune to the ravages of the wilds outside. Enormous fields of protective magic enshroud each city within the Core territories. Unfortunately, such grand works have to be reserved for the capital and other such key cities.

However, smaller incarnations of such enchantment are given to the agents of the Core council. Whether etched on shields, masks, cloaks or badges, such a mark distinguishes their allegiance to the Council, as well as their rank within such forces. Its bearer is given free reign and travel throughout all the provinces and cities to conduct the will of the council.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:38 am 
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Okay, with all of those notes stored away for later use, it’s time for you and your Creative brethren to start scaffolding a story. Like the days of old during the Rath Cycle, where cards were basically just a story board for what was going on in the novels, today’s Magic Story tends to require about five or so “Story Spotlight” cards and the corresponding story spotlights to go with them. We’re a bit of a ways off from seeing any real cards churn their way out of Development, but you need to get that story skeleton built.

For this week, briefly write up the five “Story Spotlight” moments from your set. We’re talking maybe a couple of paragraphs for each Spotlight and no card designs. (I’m purposely keeping card designs in this thread to a minimum right now so that the few WotC employees who haunt this forum can read this thread without issue if they so desire.) Anyway, give me five beats from your overall narrative plan for your set. Those notes will be passed along to both Development and the Brand Teams to inform various projects that they will be working on. The Design Team will have a report for you on Monday as it passes your set on to Development.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 pm 
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I may have overwritten, but storylines have extra chapters in addition to the Spotlighted ones, so I hope it's ok. The titles of each section pinpoint the Spotlight moment, while the following paragraph gives context. Some moments have multiple possible depictions depending on the chosen point of view.
Spoiler

[Rewritten to close the arc in one set]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Question: are we supposed to be be designing a set or a block? Because I imagine we're supposed to be making a story that unfolds over more than one set, and that means there are a few things I wouldn't have to touch on in the first set.

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