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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Very cool, thank you. =)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 pm 
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No problem. I had been begging the con to get a Magic Creative rep on the guest list for years and when we finally got Doug I was overjoyed. The least I could do was do a little documenting and sharing with you guys.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:09 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
...
- Still has some sort of squirrel grudge.
...

I'll put him on the list. I think we know what happens to people who piss off squirrels.*



*Let's just say that another dimension's going to have a surplus of Beyers.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:14 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
My wife wants a world with fairy frogs. I want to re-introduce an old race that we have seen but not in proper context, like the Dauthi.

Whoa. Ok, I have to know what con this is. I've never been to a con, and I likely never will go to one, but this con just humped to the front of the maybe list.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:05 am 
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This con sounded like a lot of fun.

Also, congrats on whoever shared this for getting a bunch of reddit upvotes lol

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:22 am 
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Jman22 wrote:
This con sounded like a lot of fun.

Also, congrats on whoever shared this for getting a bunch of reddit upvotes lol
I'm assuming that someone else from the con shared this on reddit because I have pretty much only posted the info here and some pictures on Tumblr. got a link?

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Oh, cool. Well to answer one of the questions I saw nestled in there, Doug didn't elaborate much about Dominaria beyond that it was a single block and history focused to showcase Dominaria's rich history. Being a future project, he couldn't really say much.

Oh, I almost forgot, after the last panel we chatted in the hallway for a bit. I mentioned that I would like to see actual homeworlds for other Rathi refugees like the Thalakos and the Dauthi like we did for the Kor and Zendikar. He seemed pretty receptive and assured me that Creative does talk about stuff like that occasionally.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:05 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
history focused

ARCHAEOLOGY HO!

I claim at least two thirds of a "called it".

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:20 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
history focused

ARCHAEOLOGY HO!

I claim at least two thirds of a "called it".
I'm pretty sure all of those thirds were mine first, but I'll share one of them with you.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:56 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Oh, cool. Well to answer one of the questions I saw nestled in there, Doug didn't elaborate much about Dominaria beyond that it was a single block and history focused to showcase Dominaria's rich history. Being a future project, he couldn't really say much.

Oh, I almost forgot, after the last panel we chatted in the hallway for a bit. I mentioned that I would like to see actual homeworlds for other Rathi refugees like the Thalakos and the Dauthi like we did for the Kor and Zendikar. He seemed pretty receptive and assured me that Creative does talk about stuff like that occasionally.

The Rathi kor are NOT originally from Zendikar.
But I'm all on board for more Soltari and Dauthi.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Are they not? That's the only place they are a native race that we know about. The other options are Rath and Dominaria after Rath merged with it.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:43 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Are they not? That's the only place they are a native race that we know about. The other options are Rath and Dominaria after Rath merged with it.

I believe it was a question posed to Brady ages ago.
But it's an example of the idea there are only two instances of kor, so they must be connected.
They aren't. Not anymore than the aven of Dominaria are from Bant just because they aren't native either.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:47 pm 
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I was watching for this topic as I researched Dominaria. There is evidence scattered across a few novels that the kor, vec, dal, Skyshroud elves, Rootwater merfolk, soltari, dauthi and thalakos of Rath are all the descendants of people kidnapped from Dominaria. I haven't researched Zendikar to any great extent, so I don't know if Rath was mentioned in any of the kor background material there.

(Nothing I post here is canon or anything. Just reporting what I read since it's relatively-fresh in my mind and I was specifically paying attention as I read.)

#WOTCstaff


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:02 am 
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All the years we spent on Dominaria and never saw any Kor. Then we get Rath, an artificial plane that we are told is supposedly growing so that it can metaphysically vibrate at the right planar frequency to match Dominaria and overlay with it and there are people on Rath that ended up there via Rath merging with things as it grew (assuredly other planes) and the races trapped in the Shadow Realm are sort of stuck in a weird "in between place" that is a result of this merging. The Kor race is on Rath, and again, not on Dominaria. Then, eventually, Rath merges with Dominaria and everything goes tits up. Much much later, the Kor are a native race from Zendikar and are not shown on any other plane thus far.

I know the originally the Kor were meant to be humanoids that were more a tribe of people instead of a race and that Gerrard was supposed to fulfill some prophesy to unite them with the Vec and th Dal to form some kind of KorVecDal unity tribe, but wasn't that part of the Orignal Story that got trashed along with a lot of other story points? The Kor are a race, as are the Thalakos, Soltari, and Dauthi. It makes sense that they got pulled from somewhere and the only somewhere we know they are is Zendikar.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:57 am 
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The thing about Rath merging with Dominaria is that it actually occupied the same metaphysical space as Dominaria, hence why the planar frequency mattered and why the merging could happen in the first place. The only planes that it could have absorbed would also had to have connected to Dominaria or occupied the same space at some point.

That severely curbs the idea that Rath absorbed from much else aside from Dominaria.

By the same argument, all those years and we never saw the Cephalid or Nantuko on Dominaria. Until we did. The only difference there being they haven't turned up anywhere else.

Heck, I recall when people were arguing that Mirrodin had clearly stolen its occupants from Alara just because the both had Leonin.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:03 am 
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I would argue that, at this point, Dominaria has been pretty extensively mapped. If there was a place filled with non-Rathi Kor, we would have seen or read about it by now. This many years past Apocalypse, any Kor we see now are more likely to be descended from the Rathi Kor that survived the overlay. It would almost make less sense to have Wizards say that they had been living on whatever continent we find them on since forever ago.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:17 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
AzureShade wrote:
On the topic of the Meditation Realm, the answer was sort of approached as differing audiences requiring different things and it being really hard to hold slavishly to some, mostly minor, bits of past lore that would usually serve few and confuse many. That Vraska went to the Meditation Realm was important. That Bolas's invite gave her the knowledge to get there was important, as well as the show of security when she arrived. Whether or not she had to make a pit-stop in Dominaria was not important enough to include as really only the few people who read the Legends cycle novels would notice and everyone else would just be confused and pulled away from the story. There's nothing wrong with essentially wanting everything to be lists of 100% truths, but the older stories can't really marry well with newer content without a little massaging because of how Wild West things used to be with authors not affiliated directly with the company often times just making up lore whole cloth with no eye to the future.

Which is what I'd been saying all along about it.
Exactly. For my two cents, I want to point out that a lot of this is just what happens when you take continuity built by moderately-supervised external freelancers and start doing that work in-house instead. This is not even a little bit unique to Magic. Star Wars deals with this. Star Trek deals with this. Both of those are much more callously "disrespectful" of the work done by the authors of their tie-in novel lines. Magic's Creative team, by contrast, tries to preserve a lot.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:22 pm 
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The Meditation Realm bit is something that, for now, is fine they massaged over. Since there is going to be a return to Dominaria, and an inevitable "assault on Castle Bolas" storyline, they can expand on the steps to get to the Realm then.

The people who know how to get there already because they know the lore, know what is going to happen. For the rest of the people, they get to enjoy a story where the Jacetice League get to learn where Bolas likes to live and go to his house.

(But really, after all this time, I can only imagine that Bolas would have created an extraplanar door to make his life a LITTLE easier)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Really didn't get around to posting in the last few days, so, sorry if I'm a bit late for the party now.

AzureShade wrote:
As for the Lysene thing, it seemed like he had not really considered that connection up to that point, but was really interested in it and thought it was good food for thought. It spun off into a brief discussion on how Wizards can better make connections from past lore that sort of gets orphaned from time to time.
Yessss, that sounds brilliant! That's precisely the reason why I want them to make that connection so badly, it's the only way this is realistically going to be wrapped up and rescued from being orphaned.

Since people kept bringing it up, I'd like to make a few more points about that Meditation Plane thing, mostly to show you that it's not just an empty "roses are red, violets are blue, retcons are bad, you know it is true" kind of knee-jerk reaction but that the consequences are worse than people seem to realise.

Spoiler

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