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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:49 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Why can't it be both? It seems to me they stole the character tropes from Trek and the the story tropes from Wars.


Basically, which makes me laugh when people try to say how much more original* the old lore was then modern lore.

*not saying they aren't creative, just they have always drawn from the current popular nerd culture.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:41 am 
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Considering there were vocal disagreements between old writers and Creative over precisely the sci-fi tone of the lore yeah, MTG always had issues presenting its story. Only makes the good works be all the sweeter for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:54 pm 
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I don't actually mind cyberpunk... as long as it isn't all futuristic. From what we know, the Soratami and the Nezumi don't all present themselves as supertechy. Part of what I really like about Kamigawa was the landscapes, and I'd rather have cityscapes blend into what made the originals so great rather than overtake them. Like show the city that was Eigango engulfing the mesa it was built on, but the dust bowl of Araba still being potentially harsh (with plants growing in the craters).

Overall, though, I'd hope the idea for Kamigawa would be more to "expand" as oppose to "replace." Despite being from the "each region is a color" time, Kamigawa was actually quite good at fill out those regions with different cultures. It wasn't just "human society for that color" and "non-human society for that color." Orochi had noticeably different tribes. Nezumi had different gangs, Okiba-Gang being the only one named, but Marrow-gnawer was from a different one that didn't like the ninja rats (and Makiba-Gang was noted in Rat's Nest as a more necromancer gang). O-bakemono had the Takenuma ogres, the Sokenzan ogres and the ogres outcasts who didn't worship oni. Sokenzan humans could be grouped into Godo's Horde and the yamabushi. and so on and so on. I really hope WotC would prefer to go more into this type of diversification and rather than try to consolidate them.

Ways to tie in loosely "cyberpunk" into each region/random ideas:

Towabara:
cyber aesthetic: Ergo Proxy, noir dome cities mixed in with some Samurai nobility ascetics
random idea: moth ranch
random race (not needed): Nekomata as housecat based leonin who tend towards being slimy lawyers

Kamitaki:
cyber aesthetic: Made in Abyss with a Ghost in the Shell overworld and Paprika interaction with the Reikai - essentially tech surrounded above and below by the unknown.
random: wokou: cyber pirates; fukuryu: scuba samurai (like Big Daddies in Bioshock)
random race (not needed): Ningyo as merfolk based off of deep sea fish like Pelican eels or Anglerfish who live deep in the abyss of water at the bottom of lake Kamitaki.

Numai:
Cyber ascetic: swampy overgrown Tekkonkinkreet as a mix of yakuza, theme parks and disrepair
random: Obakemono lab for Oni research
random race (not needed): Dragonfly insect folk as a Faerie equivalent

Sokenzan:
Cyber aesthetic: No Game No Life: Zero, though a bit more colorful and more of a "old tech obtained by Akki long past" feel
random: Spirited Away style onsen
random race (not needed): Tengu

Jukai:
Cyber aesthetic: Nausicaa Valley of the Wind, dangerous beasts near
random: monster versions of native Japanese flora/fauna than became invasive species elsewhere like stink bugs or kudzu
random race (not needed): Tanuki as basically forest dwarves, though tend more towards woodworking than smithing


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:45 am 
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I love those. Maybe the new races could have been created by genetic/spiritual splicing like a mixture of old and new Simic?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:48 am 
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Maybe, or go for the simple explanation: the new races just hadn't made contact with the old ones at the time of the original Kamigawa block. The lore of the block was that no one had reached the other side of the Jukai Forest, nor knew what was beyond the ocean. The Orochi were rather recently met at the time of the original block.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:17 pm 
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I'm honestly wondering whether this set - if it's actually going to be a thing - is supposed to be an experiment along the lines of a "What if?" continuity. You know, Magic exploring "possible" future or alternative versions of some of its established settings, basically in the spirit of Future Sight if you will. That would mean it's not canon and they don't have to worry about how it fits into the current universe, and it would arguably be the next logical step in their imitation of popular comic book film franchises. Both the MCU and the DCEU are headed in the direction of exploring alternate realities with alternate versions of their characters, and I could kinda see someone at WotC pitching Magic's equivalent thereof.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:39 pm 
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It is a possibility, but I hope they don't go that route, it'd feel like a cop-out. Decades of contuinity, however shaky it might be, would be undone with "we could have just made parallel timelines all along lol"

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:14 pm 
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It is a possibility, but I hope they don't go that route, it'd feel like a cop-out. Decades of contuinity, however shaky it might be, would be undone with "we could have just made parallel timelines all along lol"

You mean MORE parallel time lines.
Besides Snow Phyrexia, The Elemental Wars, and Khans of Tarkir.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:57 pm 
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I feel like those are somewhat different than doing a legitimately self-contained "What if" in that they're not seen as their own thing but as fragmentary parallels to the "core" continuity. KTK gets closest but even then the entire point of the block was rewriting time -- a mistake in my opinion but one we have to live with -- and not simply a set of isolated non-canon story, tying the alternate in as a part of the core line.

Though really I could go for time-skipping the Gatewatch out of existence, saying "their story is told, time for a new generation." We probably won't because marketing and brand but I can kind of dream.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:49 pm 
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Could Ghen and his ‘neon’ Arcanum strands be from cyberpunk Kamigawa?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:08 pm 
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My guess is strixhaven. He talks about using spellbooks and sticks (magic wands?) Which I dont think are referenced too often in kamigawa if at all. That would be quite a change in culture.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:34 pm 
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His flavor in general is pretty odd. He remakes other people's spells because he thinks he can do better; that seems more like a thing rather than a .

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Nah, artistic expression sits mainly in Red, White cares about enchantment based magic, and he's a smug jerk. The colors work out fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Arrogance is pretty :w::b: and it only has to do with Enchantments, which :u: interacts with only tangentially (typically in "artifact or enchantment" scenarios) these days. Still, :r: is really odd as :r: usually has no enchantment interaction. Being Hell's Caretaker for enchantments, as tricolor, would strike me as :w::b::g:, with :w::b::u: or :w::g::u: being less wrong than :w::b::r:, which is what he is.

He seems like a fun commander what with ditching :b: and :r:'s self-injuring enchantments at critical moments, and I get wanting to provide an "enchantress" commander in nonstandard colors, but it is just a bit wonky.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:21 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
Nah, artistic expression sits mainly in Red, White cares about enchantment based magic, and he's a smug jerk. The colors work out fine.


Yes, and his card even draws attention to the artistic thing, but his blurb claims he does so to maximise efficiency. Pretty smug, but more on the perfection side of things.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:18 pm 
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LilyStorm wrote:
My guess is strixhaven. He talks about using spellbooks and sticks (magic wands?) Which I dont think are referenced too often in kamigawa if at all. That would be quite a change in culture.


I’m guessing the ‘two sticks’ refers to the low-tech method of starting a fire.

You’re probably right about ‘no spellbooks on Kamigawa,’ though. The only analogue I can think of that would fit in Kami-magic is ofuda. ‘Ghen’ does appear to be a Japanese-derived name, though, so who knows? So far Kamigawa is the only source of Japan-inspired culture in Dominia as far as I know, but maybe that will change.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Well, it's established that they have a multitude of scrolls at least. As seen with Lady Azami.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:51 pm 
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That's kinda what I was thinking about. Would wizards be like, hey it's kamigawa in the future just like japan in the present; they have abandoned scrolls and now use books.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:56 am 
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As of Theros: Beyond Death, red is the color which sacrifices its own enchantments for benefit (see for instance Skophos Warleader).

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:22 am 
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Considering a lot of villains lately have been "truther" types (Xenagos, Oko) maybe a Zaheer type to give an additional reason to protest the state of the world? Could even be a subversion of the resistance in cyberpunk stories like The Matrix, as in actually deluded terrorists.

Didn't we already get that in Kaladesh?

Aaarrrgh wrote:
Why can't it be both? It seems to me they stole the character tropes from Trek and the the story tropes from Wars.

Exactly what I was thinking.

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