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 Post subject: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:26 pm 
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(Fleets of Ossia archives)

Ossia is a land of many secrets, and something dark is coming. its people are too caught up in its wars to notice, but things are changing, and not much for the better.

so as mentioned previously I found myself stranded with a bunch of 5-card cycles to fill that couldn't interact with the tribal theme. at common, these were ship answers. at uncommon, they were the Heralds, added to emphasize the abnormally high legend count in Ossia. at rare, they were originally going to be Ship enablers, but then the Pirates became that. (yes, I put Pirates and Ships in my set before I realized I had both Pirates and Ships in my set and they should probably be pals.) so that left me flailing. I actually left this problem until the very end, leaving that space blank on my skeleton. (it still is, but that's a being-lazy thing now) ships and legends were my two non-tribal deals. I had a bunch of I/S cycles so I checked it maybe I had more than normal but no, shockingly the set with more creatures than normal has fewer other things.

eventually I settled on just making my own theme. most sets have a couple cards that are just there, as a cool thing to do. if I could tie it in with Ossia's flavor then doing a rare cycle that's just, you know, a rare cycle would be great. I wanted it to be a fairly clear cycle, so at least somewhat tight. I figured the easiest way would be to just pick a line of text and put it on all five, then do various cool things with it. as a nod to my first real attempt at a set, Alexandris, I went with "Play with the top card of your library revealed." 12 cards have had this line of text, although I don't know if temporal aperture really counts. but anyway it seemed like a cool thing I could do five things with that hadn't had many things done with it previously. tying it in with the looming disaster in Ossia (more on that in the next thread) let me squeeze in some cool foreshadowing while I was at it. as we'll discuss later, the war is designed as a distraction from, well, other things, so the Foreseers here represent some creatures who manage to see past it.

Brightsun Foreseer-
Creature-Centaur Nomad (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
Creatures you control that share a creature type with the top card of your library get +1/+1.
"With daybreak, the light returns."
2/2

this is what I like to call a Brass Lord, after Brass Herald. it nominally is good with any tribe but is slightly better with its own due to affecting itself and triggering off multiples. but still, I think it's general enough that I can get away with it without too much problem, and I can certainly imagine, say, the Monk deck being pretty happy with it as well. at rare I'm not so worried, as long as people can't point at one tribe and say "why'd they get more lords?" anyway this seemed like a simple effect. I was originally gonna do it for each shared type, but **** changeling you guys.

Skyrift Foreseer-
Creature-Monk Scout (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
: Draw a card, then put Skyrift Foreseer on top of its owner's library.
"Worse things than war threaten Ossia."
1/1

good ol' top. one of the things I thought was neat was a draw mechanic, since if you see the top card you know when you really want it. the problem is most draw mechanics are just fine activating always. looting, reverse looting, expensive costs, nothing really made it not worth just going for the card advantage. I thought about saccing but that didn't seem fun and besides saccing is a Minion thing and I couldn't really put it in black. the top ability lets you grab things now but doesn't net you any card advantage, so you only use it when you need it, which is great. plus hey it's a 1-drop for scouts that's good they need more of those. and maybe the Chymist deck wants this? doubt it but maybe.

Darktide Foreseer-
Creature-Gargoyle Minion (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
, : Destroy target creature with converted mana cost less than or equal to the converted mana cost of the top card of your library.
"To watch is not to see."
1/5

Visara-ish. I know I want something like this, but I have a couple thoughts. I could switch it so it has to be less, so that it can't eat tokens with a land on top. (with appropriate stat adjustment.) or I can switch it to sacrifice for a sweeper, but will people know to use LKI? I mean, I assume they will on the Mitotic Slime principle, but LKI is a little weird. I'm not even 100% sure you do use LKI on that, although I think so. I like the destroy wording over a -X/-X so that it has to pick appropriate targets, it can't team up on things.

Shimmershift Foreseer-
Creature-Djinn Pirate (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
As long as the top card of your library is a land, creature, artifact, or enchantment card, Shimmershift Foreseer is a copy of it.
"All the signs are there, if you know where not to look."
3/3

no planeswalkers 'cause it has no loyalty so it'd die the first time you revealed one. listed them because I thought it looked better than "non-planeswalker permanent card" but I could switch to that if y'all want. relevant body so that when you hit an instant or sorcery it's not dead. would consider dropping "land" if people think I should. anyway this is the first design I came up with. I figured it fit red or blue just fine, but Skyrift fit blue better than red so it went there and this went here. it's a red take on a blue mechanic. or something. whatever.

Earthrend Foreseer-
Creature-Troll Druid (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You may play the top card of your library if it's a land card.
Whenever you play a land, draw a card.
"Death sleeps beneath the stones."
6/6

green needed more beef at rare so it got it. I wanted to do an Oracle/Courser variant because that's how green has traditionally used this mechanic. I tried to figure out what I wanted to do, and I thought that a one-sided horn of greed would be nice. problem is, that's really powerful. fortunately though it also gives you late-game use for lands, so I could put it on a body that was more expensive than you'd usually want to pay for acceleration. so now this! also, only triple-color-commitment in the block I think. wooh.

and that's the 5-cards. only two cards remain: the set's planeswalkers. they will go up soon, along with a write-up of the set's story and how it relates to their presence. until then... something.

:duel:

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The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:02 pm 
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Not familiar enough with your set to really comment on power levels. But Skyrift seems to have two classes and no species. Was this intentional?


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:13 pm 
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And yet you posted 5 cards. How misleading.

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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Not familiar enough with your set to really comment on power levels. But Skyrift seems to have two classes and no species. Was this intentional?

no it was supposed to be a Wolf Scout, not a Monk. that was a typo. thanks.

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:42 pm 
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I like this cycle. Seems fun in casual, and the blue one has some potential in eternal formats.

I think Shimmershift Foreseer should say "...a copy of that card, except it has this ability."

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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:50 pm 
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I think Shimmershift Foreseer should say "...a copy of that card, except it has this ability."

it doesn't need to. that's necessary for triggers like vesuvan doppelganger, but as a static ability it has its own built-in monitoring system. it only applies while the condition is met, then goes away.

anyway thoughts on whether Shimmershift should copy lands? the more I think about it the more I think it shouldn't.

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:30 pm 
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What race is Skyrift Foreseer?

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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:45 pm 
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Cato wrote:
What race is Skyrift Foreseer?

a Wolf. Monk was a typo.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:07 am 
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fun interaction: with Shimmersheen Foreseer, if you have shuko on top, you can equip the Foreseer for free, then draw it and reveal argentum armor and it'll stay attached.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:56 am 
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I'm really starting to question my deck building decisions at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:17 am 
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White and blue ones look nice.

Darktide Foreseer... I'm a little concerned about repeatably using it, but honestly there are plenty of cards that can do it in probably more reliable ways with adequate support, so it's not a power-level concern I guess. More of a fun-police concern. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Shimershift Foreeer looks weird. It seems at surface pretty obvious what it does but for sake of precedence I'd probably use [card]Volrath's Shapeshifter[card]'s wording. I like it quite some.

I know Earthrend Foreseer's text box is a little constrained as is, but I honestly think he's a bit on the meh side. Too color-intensive, vanilla body in combat, little board impact when dropped... I understand not every rare needs to be good or even playable, but if you wanted to go beef I think this fell short.


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:31 am 
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Azhorium wrote:
I know Earthrend Foreseer's text box is a little constrained as is, but I honestly think he's a bit on the meh side. Too color-intensive, vanilla body in combat, little board impact when dropped... I understand not every rare needs to be good or even playable, but if you wanted to go beef I think this fell short.

Card is amazing in EDH.

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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:35 am 
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I think amazing is an overstatement, if you mean competitive. Oracle of Mul Daya is amazing.

EDIT: But yeah, my previous statement was more directed towards Constructed (and even Limited to a smaller extent). Pretty eh bomb.


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:57 am 
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I really like this cycle.


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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:19 pm 
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Azhorium wrote:
Shimershift Foreeer looks weird. It seems at surface pretty obvious what it does but for sake of precedence I'd probably use [card]Volrath's Shapeshifter[card]'s wording. I like it quite some.
that's a fair point. I don't remember why Shapeshifter has that ability. let's look it up.

oh god layers

so basically the issue is that the wording seems to depend on who is controlling it, but copy effects are applied first in layers so it'll always be the player who controls it. dependency doesn't save me since dependency only applies if they're in the same layer. Shapeshifter's wording changes it to a text-changing effect that happens to be the exact same thing as a copy effect but is applied after control changes. I could do that.

one thing that might save me and I'm gonna need a heavy-duty judge to weigh in on this (pity I used the Zammm signal so recently, I don't want to abuse that thing.) but the following might matter:

613.9. Some continuous effects affect players rather than objects. For example, an effect might give a player protection from red. All such effects are applied in timestamp order after the determination of objects’ characteristics. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 613.6 and 613.7).

613.10. Some continuous effects affect game rules rather than objects. For example, effects may modify a player’s maximum hand size, or say that a creature must attack this turn if able. These effects are applied after all other continuous effects have been applied. Continuous effects that affect the costs of spells or abilities are applied according to the order specified in rule 601.2e. All other such effects are applied in timestamp order. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 613.6 and 613.7).


in effect, these say that you don't even reveal the top card of your library until after everyone's characteristics have already been determined. this would imply that you can't have characteristic-affecting abilities tied to the top card, but mul daya channelers says otherwise, so it's possible that what happens is the effect waits until the end of the layers until it has a thing to look at, then checks it, in which case it would have already switched control. I really don't know here. Shapeshifter's wording isn't the end of the world but I know that most players would ask why it didn't just copy so I'd rather it did if possible.

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
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 Post subject: Re: [FOS] Foreseers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:13 pm 
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After reading a lot of threads on Volrath's Shapeshifter, I think you just shouldn't do the copy card under the current rules. Or do something like Flamerush Rider copying the revealed card.

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