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Which contestant should make it to the finals?
Poll ended at Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:24 pm
Shaz 48%  48%  [ 10 ]
OlahZep 52%  52%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 21
Total voters : 21
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Welcome to the fifth season of Pro Tour: You Make the Card! This is your annual opportunity to put your fantasy fantasy card design skills to the test for a chance at internet immortality. Over the next several months, this competition will push you to be the best designer you can be to see which of you can join the ranks of YMTC legends.

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Shaz's Submission

OlahZep's Submission

Please vote for the contestant you feel deserves to proceed to the finals based on their submission this round. The poll will remain open until Saturday, November 24. I will be reserving my vote for tie-breaking purposes. Best of luck, Shaz and OlahZep!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:23 am 
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We've had a lot of discussion in the Libe vs. Parad thread. How about some discussion in this one?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:58 am 
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Timmy - Feast of Endraught vs Ancient Regisaur - I am not quite sure what you were going for Shaz, but Feast just doesn't seem like it would appeal to anyone. If it was 4GW or 4GU, Instant, and allowed you to target any creatures (not just your own), this would be great, but as it caters heavily to the stereotype that Timmies like bad cards that are big (for instance Ramp and Reanimator are both very competitive ideas that Timmy enjoys). 1 point OlahZep (I hope a vanilla 1CMC 7/7 that needs to be worked around doesnt need an in depth evaluation).

Johnny - Contested Grounds vs Relentless Visions - Contested Grounds pleases me as it is the only card of the four that doesnt rely on an opponent's choices directly. In fact, combine this with Forbidden Orchard or a sac outlet, you have a steady stream of squirrels coming in. Visions ... is actually possibly broken; Laboratory Maniac and Phyrexian Unlife allow one to relentlessly draw their entire library as a win condition. It definitely appeals to me as well. However I am going to call this in favor of Shaz. 1 point Shaz.

Spike - Volkas vs Temporal Displacement - Volkas is a definite miss for me; I cant think of any deck it would useful in outside of Aluren or Shardless Agent decks. Displacement, however is a goldmine. Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, and Snapcaster Mage each have a giant bullseye on their heads, among other competitve creatures. I want to see this in print eventually. 1 point OlahZep

OlahZep wins this one for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Shaz:
That's a lot of counters. While that's cool, I don't think Timmy actually likes counters so much, because I don't think Timmy likes calculating. Tapping those creatures afterwards sounds like you're just trying to avoid making a 6-mana Sorcery too powerful. I don't know. I think you had a good idea with "all the counters!", but then hanged yourself by trying to make the card balanced. Perhaps a very different approach at getting all those counters would've been a better idea. As it is, not much of a fan.

Contested Grounds is a great card. Probably too good of a card, actually, as it's very comparable to Bitterblossom, and works at EACH player's upkeep! Whatever, those are minor things to fix (+1 cost, only your upkeep). The benefit is a solidly green value card. I'd dock a couple points only because this is about pure value; you always get something good. Johnny wants to work more for a living.

CMC 3 is good. I like this. Not sure why it's a Centaur or an Artificer, but I'll just imagine that it's in a set where these things, along with multi-colour, matter. I think to really up the Spike-ness of this, it would've needed to draw a card all on its own. As it stands, this card by asking you to change a lot about your deck, which is closer to being a Johnny thing.

OlahZep:
Clever use of Ascend here by finding something that already counts 10 cards. This is a nice fatty, which Timmy likes. However, I feel like you got lost in giving a benefit for the Ascend. Ascend is pretty naturally Johnny and Spike, since you often get there early on purpose, or naturally without any extra work. I think a higher cost and getting a token copy for coming in with the city's blessings could've been hilarious and awesome.

Relentless Visions can draw a LOT of cards. Like a scary lot. I'd hate to be playing Commander when someone with a Psychosis Crawler and 1 point of life more than me casts this. Still, that's why I like Johnny - they think of these things, and this card makes me think of Johnny, so that's a win in my books.

Temporal Displacement gives Suspend 2, and you can gain control of it. It feels like you could've just made it a Mind Control for cheap creatures that denies you having it for a turn. This is definitely a Spike card for how good it is while being something that someone else might pass on.


So who to vote for? Well, I find that Shaz's cards feel more like real cards, but OlahZep's got a much better read on the player demographics. So what should win? Card quality, or sticking to the criteria? I'm going to side with card quality, and for that reason, I gave my vote to Shaz.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Thank you EpicLevelCommoner and Yarium for giving some great feedback! I was curious what people’s thoughts were.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Timmy: +10/+10 that you can't use this turn or 7/7 for 1? I think the latter is more timmy-exciting. That's a big, beefy body, and sure if you don't have stuff it's nothing but you're timmy, you have stuff, and then it just goes. That's awesome. Tapping down your own creatures is less awesome. Advantage OlahZep

Johnny: Contested Grounds is not interesting, it just generates mild value for everyone. In general, Group Hug cards are not Johnny. Visions, on the other hand, is insane if it works like I think it does (everyone gets another round if anyone takes a card). I'd like it better if it worked that a player was out once that player declined a card and everyone else could keep going, but that player couldn't jump back in. It's still kind of huggy and more of a politics card than pure johnny since there's not a good opportunity to break it with other cards, but it's better than contested grounds. Advantage OlahZep, though neither really hits home.

Spike: Volkas is a spike card... for EDH players. For everyone else, 1 and 2 drops are important enough that you don't really want to fill up on 3's. I'm sure it would quickly become a widely hated commander like new Johira or Rashimi, but that's not a clean hit. Temporal, on the other hand, is an insanely clean hit. It's sort of a Fatal Push/Reality Shift variant (both already very good cards) that pays off extra by stealing whatever you really wanted off your opponent's board, and it has corner-case applications soft-countering removal pointed at an important combo piece that fits its targeting, since it's an instant. It's really good and I could see it getting heavy play. Advantage OlahZep.

OlahZep sweeps this one IMO, and I think Temporal is my favorite card out of all 12 for the round.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:18 am 
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After I voted I was surprised to discover that my vote might be the decider if no one else votes here.
Timmy cards - Feast has a good drawback to balance out the "aura haste" issue (a lot of 9th ed starter pack games were decided by Blachwood Armor!) I didn't read OlahZep's card closely because I thought Ascend was a weird way to use the criteria, but on second look it's a pretty cool card conceptually, though even Timmy can tell if a card is too "win more".
Johnny - Shaz's card seems like it could get to where both players are just making tokens because it's always a draw, but I like how it helps people catch up otherwise. OlahZep's card doesn't really work in a duel since the opponent can just refuse on the first go and you just paid 4 mana to draw a card. While in EDH, it could potentially get banned even though it has the life loss to make it not infinite.
Spike - I like the idea of tribal cmc, mucked around in that space myself recently. Three drops are a nice number to make a deck with lots of that number while not being too easy to do. OlahZep's card should just use the suspend mechanic like Delay. It's not that powerful either compared to bouncing that makes the player spend their mana again.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:33 am 
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@Flopfoot: Doesn't Relentless Visions keep going as long as one player chooses to draw a card? Also Temporal Displacement gains control of the creature, so it's way more powerful than bounce.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:59 am 
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YingLung wrote:
@Flopfoot: Doesn't Relentless Visions keep going as long as one player chooses to draw a card? Also Temporal Displacement gains control of the creature, so it's way more powerful than bounce.

For some reason I thought this as well, then I figured I either read it totally wrong, or it got edited. I thought it was saying something like "Starting with you, each player may choose for each player to draw a card and lose 1 life." which would've made this an instant win if a person had less life than you. But it's not; it's just "each player may draw any number of cards, losing 1 life for each card drawn". Normally this should be a life payment. Since the status of losing the game for having 0 or less life won't be checked until a player next receives priority, there's nothing to prevent you from drawing your entire library off this card, which makes this an Ad Nauseam variant.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:18 am 
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Flopfoot, Temporal Displacement can't use suspend because then its owner would get to cast it and regain control of it. It seems the point is for the caster of Temporal Displacement to get the creature under their own control.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:48 am 
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Right, I misread both of those cards. So it's Yawgmoth's Bargain and Threads of Disloyalty at a 33% discount


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:17 pm 
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I'm not really blown away by any of Shaz's cards. Draught is a super unexciting Gearhulk albeit with a strong concept, Contested Grounds seems like it warps the gamestate too much for its cost, and Volkas is reasonable if a bit unexciting. However, Relentless Visions is either a dud or absolutely unprintable depending on whether it's a 4-mana cantrip or a 4-mana Bargain (and the ambiguity isn't helping it), and I don't get the blue fatal push that has a delayed mind control stapled to it. Regisaur is neat enough, can do some cool power matter shenanigans.

Generally don't feel like any of them nail their respective categories, but that might just be my narrow view of them. I wonder if I would have liked all the criteria to be shifted down a player profile, looking at it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Just to clarify for people: Relentless Visions will continue to happen as long as ANY player does it. So yes, your opponent could draw 0 and you could keep drawing. This isn't the first time this mechanic or wording has been used. Plague of Vermin or Hypergenesis are good examples.

It is a very strong mechanic and it's also build around so you don't kill yourself. The nice balancing factor compared to Ad Nauseam is that it's sorcery speed, two colors, and your opponent(s) can also draw which may help them find an answer to what you're doing.

Thanks again for all the feedback everyone!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Shaz


OlahZep


Vote


Last edited by Riorvard on Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:19 pm 
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My initial impressions were ruined by misreading all of OZ's cards but I can't take my vote away, I can only change it


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:00 pm 
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In defense of Relentless Visions, Yawgmoth's Bargain is A) a permanent that was supposed to be a fixed version of Necropotence and B) already sees playable versions in Griselbrand and Ad Nauseum. To top it off Im pretty sure it is very legal in commander. In truth ... Yawgmoth's Bargain isn't that bad outside of Storm (six mana is garbage for a card that equates to an legless engine).

Having said that the design could have been fixed by using a modified Chain of Plasma/Chain of Vapor clause, allowing the opponent to use answers they draw between draws.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:32 am 
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timmy cards


johnny cards


spike cards


verdict

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:03 am 
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Timmy: I'm going with OlahZep. Cooler card, more interesting design in my opinion.

Johnny: Contested Grounds seems like a Spike card for a tokens deck to me. Relentless Visions, I'm not sure how you'd Johnny around that but it looks like there has to be a way. Horizon Chimera in Damia, Sage of Stone commander? I'm giving this one to OlahZep because the card seems more potentially breakable.

Spike: Temporal Displacement is so Spikey it's broken. On the other hand I can't see Volkas ever making the cut into a competitive deck. This one is a draw for me.

So I voted OlahZep.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Timmy:
What Timmy would like Feast? "Oh I can distribute ten counters, wow! Oh but I tap my creatures so I can't swing with my big creatures...awww. ANd it costs six!"

Regisaur doesn't strike me as any better being a dead card for quite a few turns, and then just being and then just being a 7/7 without Trample or anything.

I didn't like any of hte Timmy cards this round...

Johnny:

Contested Grounds is fun. Card draw for doing what Green wants to do. And it makes squirrels!

I would totally run Restless VIsions. This is a card I absolutely adore. Can be just Black but I also see why it has the Blue even if not needed.

I like both of these but Restless Visions moreso. But Contested Ground strikes me as more Johnny because Visions just seems like a straightforward good card. So voting Grounds.

Spike:

I like Volkas. A pushed card that helps keep steam going without being too efficient. But it also just feels too...okay. Not amazing.

Temporal Displacement is...actually pretty neat. Especially once I saw that you always get the temporally bounced card.

Going Displacement.

So overall I think Olah. There was no winner for Timmies; in Johnnies I liked their card better even if I thought it fit the criteria less; and in Spikes they were a definite winner.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:51 pm 
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just realized I misread Temporal Displacement. was comparing it to persuasion instead of threads of disloyalty. not sure that changes how I feel but it definitely makes it more balanced. I'll think about it.

:duel:

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