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 Post subject: [WVB] Warlords of Epala
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:04 pm 
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(Wavebreak archives)
(Heroes of Epala)

CYCLE 1: RACE OR CLASS LORD

Vesper Regent-
Creature-Faerie Druid (R)
Flying, Lifelink
: Each player sacrifices X permanents, where X is the number of Druids you control.
"Fools fear the eyes within the shadows. The wise fear the shadows themselves."
2/2

"Vesper" is an archaic term for evening along with a more modern term for evening prayers. deal with it.

anyway this slot confounded me for freaking forever. at first I had one I kinda liked on the ramp side of things, but I liked Venerable Sophisticate way more and mythics take precedence anyway and I didn't want only one of my rare+s to deliver fat for the Druids. well, not fat, necessarily, this is a 2/2, but results. and don't worry, the last one is Borrogrove, so there's plenty of fat coming down the pipe. anyway I poked at this for like weeks and everything I came up with was green, so I eventually went to CKY for help. they suggested a life drain thing, but I already did that at uncommon. but it got me to go back and look at the list of black X spells again, and this time Death Cloud stood out. I like how it plays both into Druids' theme of ramping by letting you toss the excess weight of that, and Faeries' theme of tokens, which gives you easy fodder. I costed it pretty safely because, I mean, repeatable death cloud, but if you can protect this and make 8 mana and have enough Druids that it knocks them out, heck, enjoy your win.

CYCLE 2: MYTHIC W/RACE KEYWORD

Sovereign Jurist-
Creature-Faerie Scout (M)
Flying, pester (The first noncreature spell each opponent casts each turn costs more to cast.)
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell for the first time in a turn, counter that spell.
The Bounded Court speaks with one fractured voice.
1/2

CKY helps me out and I thank them by making their worse nightmare. I'm kind of a jerk.

anyway I'm gonna defend this by yelling "IT'S NOT FOR YOU" to the people who think it's no fun. I think it's statted out of competitive playability but I could be wrong and I'm willing to discuss ways to make it so, so that only the sorts of people who want it will play it. also in block constructed remember there's a cycle of spells that fork themselves at uncommon in this set and this can't fully stop them. notably, it can't stop Barbed Rain from killing it. it also can't help you against creatures.

Faerie mythics are mean.

CYCLE 3: RARE LEGEND DUAL-LORD

razorborne wrote:
Simi, Shadowsword Harrier: in her day, Simi was perhaps the finest warrior on Epala, the first Fae to kill a troll. but as time went by, the old Faerie's strength drained, leaving her frail and weak in her old age. or, at least, so she is happy to let the rest of the Bounded Court believe. in truth, Simi remains as sharp and as dangerous as ever, but she found that when she was considered a threat it was much harder to achieve her goals. by feigning weakness and dementia she has become one of the most powerful voices on the Court, not least in part due to the mysterious disappearances of potential rivals. Simi's days as a warrior have left her with a deep disdain for the other Isles, and she is a strong advocate for full extermination.
razorborne wrote:
Simi, Shadowsword Harrier: Simi has risen in stature among the Court, and with her has come an increased rhetoric for destruction. while to an outsider it still appears as though she is just an old, frail relic, her machinations have become clear to most of the Court, but they found themselves powerless to stop her ascendancy. many even support her push for full-scale obliteration, seeking to strike down the other Isles before they overrun the Fae. Simi has taken control of the Fae's assassin network, putting her in a prime position to carry out her plans.


Simi, Shadowsword Harrier-
Legendary Creature-Faerie Assassin (R)
Flying
When Simi enters the battlefield, target player discards a card for each other Assassin you control. For each land card discarded this way, that player loses X life, where X is the number of Faeries you control.
The Court is only the beginning of her reign.
1/1

is it too weird that it counts her on Faeries but not on Assassins? I can change that if y'all want. I knew I didn't want her to count herself as an Assassin 'cause you can have two others by turn three and and a three-mana fugue seems unfun. as is on turn three with this it's very difficult to make this more than Mind Rot which seems like a good place to be because later on they're less likely to have more in hand so it only scales so hard.

one thing I had to deal with here is that Basilian took the best approach to a draw/discard, and I didn't want Simi and Mil'Tar to feel too similar. so I decided that I'd let Basilian do both, then Simi would discard and Mil'Tar would draw. that also kinda emphasizes the good guy/bad guy thing they've got going. so does this really need to be blue? mechanically, no. but flavorfully yes, and I think it fits with Simi enough that I'm ok with the second color.

CYCLE 4: LAND OR SHIP

Arahi's Cairn
Land (R)
: Add to your mana pool.
, : Put a storage counter on Arahi's Cairn.
, Remove X storage counters from Arahi's Cairn: Add X to your mana pool.
: Create two 1/1 green Faerie creature tokens.
The Arahi calls.

this was the first of these I came up with and I knew from the beginning that I wanted Epala to be the green one so I could do it. fortunately my desire to let the major ship-captain classes (Pirate and Scout) to have their legends with their ships meant that Epala was in this cycle anyway. (in fact, only one of the non-FOS legends who captains their Isle's flagship isn't in the same set as that Ship, but there were important reasons for Kilmek and The Bloody Talon to be in their respective sets.) anyway most of this is identical to the others and the effect is at the mana cost you expect for these effects so I don't think there's much to say but anyway I just wanted to get this done because I'm super close now.

the Lizards are next, and then Trolls, and then there will just be four cards left before Wavebreak is done. so 12 cards total, if you're bad at math.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:36 pm 
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CKY probably hates three of these cards

Faeries are not CKY's favorite Ossia race probably

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:41 pm 
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I think Sovereign Jurist is actually okay, but there should be some kind of "shields down" state that you can try to bait your opponent into. Maybe make it a 2/2, but attach a mana cost to the counter?

I don't think Simi should do scaling discard, because as you pointed out, a three-mana Fugue is pretty silly, even when it's turn four or five. I would prefer her as more of a Thieving Sprite where she takes fewer cards, but with more power attached to the effect. Alternatively, you could have her Sadistic Sacrament for X, which is an effect that's playable with small values of X but only becomes really backbreaking at higher values.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:49 pm 
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I think Sovereign Jurist is actually okay,
this is the most shocked I've been all day.

but there should be some kind of "shields down" state that you can try to bait your opponent into. Maybe make it a 2/2, but attach a mana cost to the counter?
but isn't that just a second pester?

I don't think Simi should do scaling discard, because as you pointed out, a three-mana Fugue is pretty silly, even when it's turn four or five. I would prefer her as more of a Thieving Sprite where she takes fewer cards, but with more power attached to the effect. Alternatively, you could have her Sadistic Sacrament for X, which is an effect that's playable with small values of X but only becomes really backbreaking at higher values.
I think looking at it as a three-mana fugue is a mistake. on turn 3 I think even an outside shot at a three-mana fugue is too much, but later it becomes a question of likelihood and set-up cost. in order to make it a 3-mana fugue on turn 4 you need to hit three assassins in three turns and keep them all alive. that's hard to do. on turn 5 it's plausible, but the playability of Fugue has always been hurt by the fact that, by turn 5, aggro decks don't often have three cards left and control decks have answers. Sacrament is a good idea but the Assassins are, at their core, a discard deck, and I'd like their legends to represent that. Sprite is possible but it's hard to attach two different variables to something like that in a plausible amount of text.

:duel:

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The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:01 pm 
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when people say a card is unfun they usually don't mean it is unfun for the person playing it

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Ragnarokio wrote:
when people say a card is unfun they usually don't mean it is unfun for the person playing it

griefers are a legitimate part of the player base. I don't mind giving them some exciting toys as long as those toys aren't strong enough to affect constructed play or destroy casual.

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:16 pm 
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razorborne wrote:
but there should be some kind of "shields down" state that you can try to bait your opponent into. Maybe make it a 2/2, but attach a mana cost to the counter?
but isn't that just a second pester?

I mean a mana cost as in Glen Elendra Archmage.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:03 pm 
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razorborne wrote:
but there should be some kind of "shields down" state that you can try to bait your opponent into. Maybe make it a 2/2, but attach a mana cost to the counter?
but isn't that just a second pester?

I mean a mana cost as in Glen Elendra Archmage.

oh, so like "Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell for the first time in a turn, you may pay . If you do, counter that spell."? I see where you're coming from, but I think if I add drawbacks I'm gonna have to drop the cost which makes it probably more problematic overall. it's already pretty weak, especially for a mythic. it also just lacks some of the impact that is so important with mythics. I don't know, I'll think about it.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:56 pm 
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I think it doesn't have the wow-factor of Mythics. I also honestly think it's 'no fun', but I can get behind it. Adding windows of opportunity for opponents to play around looks reasonable to be honest.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:39 am 
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wow I almost forgot to tell you that you're Hitler.
I can't really say I'm behind 4-drop that requires both card-disadvantage and quite often a tempo-disadvantage to remove, and I imagine it will quite easily just win games a lot of the time. Sure, probably not good enough for NGAC, but I imagine it's the kind of card that makes standard really un-fun. Well, maybe not your standard, since that would probably be the epitome of derpswing.

I don't like that Simi only has flavor text in a deck with only Faeries.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:28 am 
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Mown wrote:
wow I almost forgot to tell you that you're Hitler.
yeah I get that a lot

Mown wrote:
I can't really say I'm behind 4-drop that requires both card-disadvantage and quite often a tempo-disadvantage to remove, and I imagine it will quite easily just win games a lot of the time. Sure, probably not good enough for NGAC, but I imagine it's the kind of card that makes standard really un-fun. Well, maybe not your standard, since that would probably be the epitome of derpswing.
1/2s for 4 are well-known powerhouses

Mown wrote:
I don't like that Simi only has flavor text in a deck with only Faeries.
yeah now that you mention it neither do I. I originally had her count herself but then I decided she shouldn't but I didn't really adjust. maybe I'll take her back to the workshop, see if I can't come up with something that works a bit better.

although she does have flying...

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:51 am 
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razorborne wrote:
Mown wrote:
I can't really say I'm behind 4-drop that requires both card-disadvantage and quite often a tempo-disadvantage to remove, and I imagine it will quite easily just win games a lot of the time. Sure, probably not good enough for NGAC, but I imagine it's the kind of card that makes standard really un-fun. Well, maybe not your standard, since that would probably be the epitome of derpswing.
1/2s for 4 are well-known powerhouses

wow Academy Rector is such a bad card.
Taking the first top 8 standard deck I found, Jeskai Midrange. So you're practically shutting out 33% of his deck until he deals with it. If he wants to do so, then the most efficient way to do so is by using two shocks, which is not reliable, barely a tempo advantage, and still card disadvantage. Now, that deck probably has a higher spell density than others, but those with less will also have a bigger problem actually dealing with Jurist, while she screws over your opponent's ability to play planeswalkers or removal spells.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Mown wrote:
wow I almost forgot to tell you that you're Hitler.
I can't really say I'm behind 4-drop that requires both card-disadvantage and quite often a tempo-disadvantage to remove, and I imagine it will quite easily just win games a lot of the time. Sure, probably not good enough for NGAC, but I imagine it's the kind of card that makes standard really un-fun. Well, maybe not your standard, since that would probably be the epitome of derpswing.

I don't like that Simi only has flavor text in a deck with only Faeries.
as if glen is not oppressive enough. she needs mana activation AND limited use. How is that ok? Somebody convince me?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:11 pm 
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Glen Elendra Archmage is pretty stupid, but I find it a bit hard to compare the two. Not saying one is better than the other; I think both are pretty oppressive to play against.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Arahi's Cairn seems too complicated, and the second and third abilities seem weak.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:00 pm 
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for simi, can i suggest just straight up lose life instead of depending on land discarded. then make it so that it counts other fairies as you said.

Maybe put that lose life ability on a second line now that they are independent. The whole design just feels very obscure and incoherent, yet at the same time still a little boring.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:47 pm 
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Simi, Shadowsword Harrier
Legendary Creature-Faerie Assassin (R)
Flying
When Simi enters the battlefield, target player discards a card for each other Assassin you control. Then choose up to X cards in that player's graveyard and exile them, where X is the number of other Faeries you control.
Opponents cannot cast spells with the same name as cards exiled by Simi.
1/1
The Court is only the beginning of her reign.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Mown wrote:
wow Academy Rector is such a bad card.
yeah, that's a fair comparison.
Mown wrote:
Taking the first top 8 standard deck I found, Jeskai Midrange. So you're practically shutting out 33% of his deck until he deals with it. If he wants to do so, then the most efficient way to do so is by using two shocks, which is not reliable, barely a tempo advantage, and still card disadvantage.
they can also just counter it with Ojutai's Command.

anyway I'm fine with upping it to a 2/1 for 5, which makes it harder to cast and easier to kill, but any standard with Jurist will also have plenty of creature-based damage sources and also Barbed Rain, all of which are relatively efficient answers to it.

:duel:

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Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:38 pm 
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If you can find a way to make it work with your cycles, Sovereign Jurist's ability seems like a great match for legendary status.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:33 pm 
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I think I'm with Azhorium wrt whether the Jurist feels Mythic. This may be because I'm not a griefer, though--maybe a griefer looks at it and goes wow, this is definitely a Mythic Rare.

I'm cool with giving cards to griefers, just to be clear--I just think there should be something else here that makes it feel a little more impressive I suppose.

Simi's ability seems really fun to me, but I definitely did not on the first readthrough realize that she triggered one part of her ability and not the other so... yeah, just maybe note that wretched scrubs will be confused by the card?

I like your faeries. They seem nasty, spiteful, miserable to play against, and deceptively powerful, which to me seems like an ideal merger of mechanics and flavor. Nasty faeries are the best faeries in my opinion.


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