It is currently Tue May 22, 2018 12:52 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: CKY: From Maral's Vault
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:03 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
This is a collection of artifacts based on Barinellos's From the Vault, in which Raleris the Lorekeeper and Maral the artificer catalog strange and wonderful relics of the Multiverse.

The Hand of Light and Shadow


The Coin of Eirene


The Darkmantle


The Archangel's Horns


The Nocturne Wheel


The Divinity


The Inferno Amulet


The Chaos Ring


The Winter Heart


The Soulstone


The Last of All


---

Bonus planeswalker

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Last edited by chinkeeyong on Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:35 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:20 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 12788
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
How very old-school.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:09 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9957
Sweet. I'll look these over now, but since I'm stick on my phone exclusively for about the next two weeks, it'll be a little before I can offer more in depth thoughts. Suffice to say I'm excited though.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:16 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141
Concerns:

Archangel's Horns is a repeatable field nuke for :4: and a creature. I think that could potentially be problematic.
Chaos Ring is probably overcosted.
Last of All + can't lose effect is the new Balance.dek.

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:48 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
The Archangel's Horns do come with a slight drawback.

The Chaos Ring isn't the kind of effect that is fun at low mana costs.

You could use The Last of All with Angel's Grace, but then what would you win with?

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:15 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141
That drawback seems really minor.
It's not that hard to sacrifice/bounce an equip, and even easier to do so to the creature it's equipped to.

True, but I probably wouldn't have been surprised to see it at :5:, or something.

How does any Balance deck win?

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:40 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
@Archangel's Horns: Yeah, but it forces you to bend over backwards to build around the card. I think it's cool that a legendary artifact has that kind of power. That said, it's probably too good in Standard and Commander, so I'll shift the costs around a little.

@Balance decks: You tell me.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:05 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141
It doesn't take that much effort to run edict effects in your deck.
Guess it doesn't matter as much at that cost.

Greater Gargadon?
I mean, you could just use indestructible stuff with this, as well.

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:42 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 10648
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
The Hand of Light and Shadow - This is super cool. I've always toyed around with the idea of legends matter set. If I ever actually do it, I think I'll put this in there.
The Coin of Eirene - I don't know the story here, but I like what it hints at. On the other hand this seems like it would only ever find a home in degenerate combo decks. I don't know how exactly you would trigger this, but I can't imagine it being done in a way that leaves much room for interaction.
The Darkmantle - Very cool. Great flavour and great mechanics. For the deck that has more cards than mana to cast them.
The Archangel's Horns - Wasn't this supposed to make angels somehow? I suspect that the drawback is too easy to circumvent. This seems like an edh card primarily and sticking a couple sacrifice effects in there for when all your opponents are at zero isn't too hard.
The Nocturne Wheel - Can't say I'm too worried about this going infinite. If you can reliably make 20 life a turn then you should probably just win anyway. Even in EDH, 20 life is a steep price to pay for that extra turn. I guess it might enable some weird EDH early game combo, but, again I'm not worried.
The Divinity - Kind of annoying to work around, but I'm still not worried. THe name doesn't sound like an artifact, and the flavour text is an odd fit for the MTG multiverse, but I've got to assume that if I actually knew about this thing's story it would all make sense.
The Inferno Amulet - I love this. So very, very red. I do worry a little that it's too good (especially in more casual environments where it might not get answered on the first turn). By the time you have six mana to cast it you probably aren't losing much of a hand. In effect you'll be gaining an extra three cards a turn and with 12 total mana you'll have no trouble casting them.
The Chaos Ring - Yeah, that's chaotic. I'd prefer some kind of discard and draw to a max hand size of 0. It would be more chaotic and won't give me Jin-Gitaxias flashbacks.
The Winter Heart - I hate this card, but I guess it was only ever intended for a very small segment of the player base. If they must be pleased then let them pay 6 mana for it.
The Soulstone - Wow. Pretty much the best thing you could ever do with infinite mana, because it will let you do infinite things.
The Last of All - A card designed exclusively for griefing. I can't imagine this creating a positive net happiness balance.
Maral, Celestial Wright - Yeah, this is neat. I'mrunning out of typing juice to do comments with though, so

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:17 am 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Oct 17, 2013
Posts: 3486
Preferred Pronoun Set: He
The Hand of Light and Shadow


The Coin of Eirene


The Darkmantle


The Archangel's Horns


The Nocturne Wheel


The Divinity


The Inferno Amulet


The Chaos Ring


The Winter Heart


The Soulstone


The Last of All


---

Bonus planeswalker

_________________
The cake is a differential manifold with group structure.
Knife Life


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:31 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 10648
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
The Hand of Light and Shadow - I was totally going to overlook it for the sake of the card's coolness/your convenience, but Demento's right about the wording.
As weak as The Darkmantle can be I have to wonder if it has legacy potential.
Hm, maybe if the Nocturne Wheel cost you 19 life to activate. That would be great Faustian flavour. Don't know how it matches up to the M:EM though.
The Soulstone is definitely absurd. This is Eldrazi levels of game ending at a much cheaper cost.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:57 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141
It would be nice to see what your thought processes were when you made these.
Actually reading the artifacts they were based on, I find a few of these depictions to be a bit off.

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:48 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
It would be nice to see what your thought processes were when you made these.
Actually reading the artifacts they were based on, I find a few of these depictions to be a bit off.

The Hand of Light and Shadow is a pair of bangles that grant the power of all their previous bearers. If separated, the bangles draw their wielders to clash to the death. I felt the "pair of bangles" story was more interesting, so I designed the artifact based on that. And 'bearer' is totally legit rules terminology you guys. It causes zero confusion and shortens the text by a lot.

The Coin of Eirene holds the soul of a child. If you build a body for her, she lives again. I think "you win the game" represents that decently, and it feels adequately mythic (you'll notice a recurring theme in the series). I like that it challenges you to build a crazy combo deck with Conspiracy, Darksteel Mutation, and a legendary creature (or Birth of a Story if you play NGA Constructed). I think the card is cool enough that it deserves to exist, even if it later gets banned because of some unforeseen interaction.

The Darkmantle is a cloak that turns ordinary people into villainous avatars of darkness. The idea is that you get nightstalkers, but slowly go mad. Pretty straightforward.

The Archangel's Horns is a helm that summons angels. The catch is, if you don it with the intention of war, the angels create a world even worse than what you fought against. The joke here is you always play the card with the intention of war, so the card always gives you a Faustian bargain. Mechanically, it turns your creature into a dark angel and remakes the world, but denies you true victory.

The Nocturne Wheel is what it says on the tin. The ability is inspired by a footnote in the original story that a necromancer once tried to use it to gain immortality, but immediately died because the angel's wheel could never be sustained by the feeble life energies of a mortal. It's one of those quirky Johnny cards, but as a certain squirrel once said, sometimes you have to put cool words on cards and let them sort themselves out.

The Divinity is also what it says on the tin. The lore says it grants near indestructibility and can grant true resurrection to the dead, so that's what it does. I thought of adding the Worship clause but decided it didn't fit the flavor. In any case, there are plenty of ways to deal with a troublesome artifact, and dealing damage isn't the only way to kill someone. I see it as basically Karn Liberated that doesn't win the game.

The Inferno Amulet grants the power of a dragon at the cost of gaining all of its vices. Greed, envy, wrath, etc. I think it was a pretty obvious design.

The Chaos Ring spreads madness and anarchy wherever it goes. Not a lot to say about that.

The Winter Heart is a cursed artifact with control over cold that brings misery wherever it goes. I figured Winter Orb was pretty close to that. It's miserable to play with, but that's kind of the point. The consolation is, you probably lose to Serra Angel or similar shortly after it hits the battlefield.

The Soulstone has power over the potential of souls, including life, death, and the ability to discern truth. So I gave it a bunch of strong abilities that reflect that. Yes, it's crazy powerful when you have it, but if you made 8 mana you probably deserve it. Also, it's usually worse than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon or one of the Eldrazi, since you have to untap with it to get value out of it.

The Last of All is an indestructible stone filled with infinite malevolence and destructive potential, which supposedly ended a plane. I don't really think that makes a fun card, but it's in From the Vault so I committed to doing it. I ended up making it a One with Nothing-type card where the entire point is figuring out how to use an awful effect. Is it too dangerous at zero mana? I don't think so. In any case the banhammer is always an option.

Maral is top-down from her storyline abilities (lock away artifacts, forge items) and pushed to a point where she has a chance at NGA Constructed/Legacy playability. Even so, I don't think she's especially powerful, even as two 3/3s for 3.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:19 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9957
Going to try to give some reviews now, though given the tech limitations, it might not be terribly eloquent.

In defense of the hands and bearer issue, it isn't new to do something like this. obsidian fireheart did something similar with the burn wording. The only change I'd offer is probably to add the equipped creature becomes legendary. Aside from that, I like what's going on there.

The coin is a crazy little build around me card that oozes flavor in its own way, but I think it would benefit from slightly more practical use as well. Maybe add something like "at you draw step, draw an extra card then discard a card." Gives it a little more use while catching some of the dream flavor. You could probably drop the legenday clause to the construct, to conserve space just a bit.

The darkmantle does some interesting things, but I think it would probably interact with the library better rather than the hand. I also think this one would benefit from being a colored artifact. I like the basic premise, but it could use some development. I do think it interesting how you have to work around it with something like greed though, because that is some really cool storytelling in the deckbuilding. Kinda torn about that honestly.

The only note I have on the horns is it should be a white angel rather than black. It might benefit from some colored cost as well, just to make it a little less universally applicable.

I like the wheel as is. I think it does a good job at what it is.

The inferno amulet also captures the flavor well, but I'd like to see a bit more downside. For my part, I'd add a mana burn clause to even it out, though the timing would be tricky to make that work. The flavor of being consumed by the power is rea!!y resonant though, and I like what's already there.

The chaos ring is pretty elegantly simple, so that works well enough for me. Also, the idea of the shifter with his hands on it is... worrisome. I only sort of wish it cost 8 only because I describe it as a mobius ring and I am a neeeeeeerd.

The winter heart feels like it should offer some sort of initial upside to offset the sheer grief it would generate. Dunno what I'd choose though, but surely there's something, even if it is just a glued on glorious anthem or something. This is the only one that could use more work.

The soulstone has a really cool suite of abilities, but the cost probably does need adjustment. My desire for even costs makes me think it should cost 9 and each ability cost 3. Aside from that, the destroy ability is really powerful, so maybe adjusting that to a conditional target would be better like a divine verdict.

The last of all could use a "can't be prevented" clause on the game loss, but aside from that, it looks good to me.

The only thing about Maral is she should probably hit enchantments too since that makes up the other half of her work. It's just a little less tangible than the artifacts, so a little harder to show.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:46 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
Edited the OP.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:23 am 
Offline
Desperately Wants A Custom Title
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 4729
Identity: Man
I feel that Hand of Light and Shadow should have a greater equip cost. I think 3 sounds right. I love that concept!

The Coin of Eirene needs some clarification. What happens if I have an Artifact Creature - Human Construct Ooze? Do additional types hinder the condition? Or is the condition a minimum? Either way, it's interesting.

Would the Darkmantle's second ability be better read as: "You lose the game as long as you have no cards in hand." That way it's still always checking, but it fits the Magic wording a bit better?

I love the Nocturne Wheel. I have a White/Black Cleric deck where this would be completely broken.

I feel that the abilities on the Divinity would be swapped based on "use". Nothing besides the aesthetics though.

I think Inferno Amulet could cost 5, and give and still be fine. 6 seems a bit too much. It seems unwieldy.

Chaos Ring seems fine.

The Last of All's final ability should be worded something akin to: "If you would not lose the game, you lose the game instead."
or
"Effects can't prevent or redirect this loss." There's not an easy way to word it (like damage prevention), but this shoudl get around things like Sundial of the Infinite? Maybe?

_________________
quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

My Cube | My Designs | My Blog | My Art
Creator of Max and Mill! Current strip: 1.3.1
Silver Soraka Main


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:12 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 28, 2014
Posts: 1194
altimis wrote:
Would the Darkmantle's second ability be better read as: "You lose the game as long as you have no cards in hand." That way it's still always checking, but it fits the Magic wording a bit better?

It would be "When you have no cards in hand, you lose the game", I'm pretty sure. "As long as" is for effects with a duration, and losing is one-shot. Of course, I suspect that CKY isn't using a state trigger like that to avoid drawing the game in combination with "can't lose" effects. "You don't lose the game for x" is an acceptable template, so the inverse doesn't sound too bad.

altimis wrote:
The Last of All's final ability should be worded something akin to: "If you would not lose the game, you lose the game instead."
or
"Effects can't prevent or redirect this loss." There's not an easy way to word it (like damage prevention), but this shoudl get around things like Sundial of the Infinite? Maybe?

There is really no precedent for Last of All's clause. About any template is as good as the other.

_________________
The Five Worlds block - [5WD] Set archive | [MST] Partial Set archive
Planeswalker Sharing Compendium entry - note to self: improve it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:29 am 
Offline
Desperately Wants A Custom Title
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 4729
Identity: Man
Knight Otu wrote:
altimis wrote:
Would the Darkmantle's second ability be better read as: "You lose the game as long as you have no cards in hand." That way it's still always checking, but it fits the Magic wording a bit better?

It would be "When you have no cards in hand, you lose the game", I'm pretty sure. "As long as" is for effects with a duration, and losing is one-shot. Of course, I suspect that CKY isn't using a state trigger like that to avoid drawing the game in combination with "can't lose" effects. "You don't lose the game for x" is an acceptable template, so the inverse doesn't sound too bad.

altimis wrote:
The Last of All's final ability should be worded something akin to: "If you would not lose the game, you lose the game instead."
or
"Effects can't prevent or redirect this loss." There's not an easy way to word it (like damage prevention), but this shoudl get around things like Sundial of the Infinite? Maybe?

There is really no precedent for Last of All's clause. About any template is as good as the other.

I agree with that wording.

While there is not precedent, there are certain words that are used/unused, and "escape" just seems out of place to me in comparison to what words they use for similar effects.

_________________
quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

My Cube | My Designs | My Blog | My Art
Creator of Max and Mill! Current strip: 1.3.1
Silver Soraka Main


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:12 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8224
Location: Singapore
Identity: Male
There is no escape from this wording.

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:53 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Oct 17, 2013
Posts: 3486
Preferred Pronoun Set: He
I really, really hate The Last of All now. It uses bad wording, it does nothing, and it does nothing in a way that can't be abused. It is a Darksteel Relic that takes up my mythic slot. It is just bad card design. It is the kind of thing people would jump all over a new designer for.

Why does this even want to cost 0? I feel like there is better design space for this

The Last of All
Legendary Artifact
Indestructible
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice another permanent.
The dying screams of a murdered world.

Now I don't need a Mindslaver with my Donate.

_________________
The cake is a differential manifold with group structure.
Knife Life


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CuriousHeartless and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group