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Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)
https://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=95
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Author:  rstnme [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

There's the five-topper version:

4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Nylea, God of the Hunt
4x Kalonian Hydra

4x Selesnya Charm
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Bow of Nylea

4x Temple Garden
10x Forest
8x Plains

Aaaaaand the aggro-y four-top that I'm still working on so here's a shell and suggestions obvi welcome.

4x Dryad Militant
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Kalonian Tusker
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Loxodon Smiter

4x Selesnya Charm
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Warriors' Lesson
3x Unflinching Courage

4x Temple Garden
10x Forest
8x Plains

Thanks!

Author:  Shadowchu [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

I think a big mana rg/gw/naya deck is certainly possible. Just I don't think aggro decks need to have mana guys seeing as they aren't very aggressive.

Author:  tony3 [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

holy crap. aggro creatures are hyper efficient now.

How is RGW zoo?

Author:  rstnme [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Shadowchu wrote:
I think a big mana rg/gw/naya deck is certainly possible. Just I don't think aggro decks need to have mana guys seeing as they aren't very aggressive.


I'm totally OK with dorks bc of the bow and bc of devotion. The caryatid stops early aggro too, and once you have a monstered fleecemane you're in a really good position, so being able to do that on T4 is clutch.

Author:  oranges [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Isn't early aggro a good response to early aggro? Maybe early aggro is a good build up to making that Watchwolf stupid? I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.

Author:  rstnme [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

oranges wrote:
Isn't early aggro a good response to early aggro? Maybe early aggro is a good build up to making that Watchwolf stupid? I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.


This post doesn't make sense to me. Try again?

Author:  oranges [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.

Author:  rstnme [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

oranges wrote:
I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.


Ah. So, like, I need one-drops in my deck with one-drops. Makes sense. A specific kind of sense. Nonsense, actually.

Thanks for your opposite of help.

Author:  tony3 [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

rstnme wrote:
oranges wrote:
I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.


Ah. So, like, I need one-drops in my deck with one-drops. Makes sense. A specific kind of sense. Nonsense, actually.

Thanks for your opposite of help.


You have your entire deck set up like a crap mix of weenie rush and mid game aggro.

oranges thinks you should go with the weenie rush route, which is completely reasonable.

Stop being a pretentious jerk. Sorry, your deck isn't perfect, and if you're going to rip anyone who gives any sort of criticism, you're better of not posting at all.

Furtheremore, if we're just looking at the first deck, you have four cards (not four separate spells, four cards total) that you are able to play on turn one. That means you're playing a tempo deck and basically forfeiting turn one which is laughably stupid.

Aggro decks that have a mix of weenies and late game beaters just result in incredibly slow, inefficient decks that do nothing but lose. Fix it.

Author:  rstnme [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

tony3 wrote:
rstnme wrote:
oranges wrote:
I think you need some early aggro in your aggro deck.


Ah. So, like, I need one-drops in my deck with one-drops. Makes sense. A specific kind of sense. Nonsense, actually.

Thanks for your opposite of help.


You have your entire deck set up like a crap mix of weenie rush and mid game aggro.

oranges thinks you should go with the weenie rush route, which is completely reasonable.

Stop being a pretentious jerk. Sorry, your deck isn't perfect, and if you're going to rip anyone who gives any sort of criticism, you're better of not posting at all.

Furtheremore, if we're just looking at the first deck, you have four cards (not four separate spells, four cards total) that you are able to play on turn one. That means you're playing a tempo deck and basically forfeiting turn one which is laughably stupid.

Aggro decks that have a mix of weenies and late game beaters just result in incredibly slow, inefficient decks that do nothing but lose. Fix it.


Is it being a pretentious jerk asking for specific criticism? "More aggro" is being purposefully obtuse, and I already asked once for clarification. I never implied my deck was anything near perfect, take another look and get your underwear out of a bunch.

EDIT: Are people referring to deck one? I never said the first version was aggro. This is a stupid back and forth. When people post deck help they generally want specific thoughts--like chu's first comment. My testing shows the dorks are fine, but it's not like I didn't test the deck without them.

Author:  Flopfoot [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

How about going all the way up to seven? Hardcasting the cactus angel is possible and deals with almost anything the opponent throws at you. Something like this

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Armada Wurm
4 Angel of Serenity
+25 lands

I realize this is a completely different deck, sorry just wanted to get it out there. Trostani is potentially the bomb.

PS, there is no point fighting over semantics about what is 'aggro' or not.

PPS, why kalonian tusker in the second deck instead of Call of the Conclave?

Author:  Croatoan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

I think oranges was being very clear;
You said that the Caryatid was good for stopping early Aggro, while his response was that early Aggro was better at stopping early Aggro, and your deck would be better with more of it (like Experiment One, or Dryad Militant maybe).
He wasn't being insulting, and there was no need to be insulting to him.

Author:  rstnme [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

No need to apologize--the thread is really just dedicated to the inevitable Selesnya-based beaters deck that'll pop up post-rotation. Considering there's a lot of talk about RDW, I think the deck is well-positioned. Also, thanks for posting something specific.

There's a lot of value in the Trostani deck, I haven't tried it because I think I'm spoiled by the pre-rotation mana bases. Have you tested?

I think a straight up aggro deck would look something like:

4x Dryad Militant
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Experiment One
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Call of the Conclave
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Selesnya Charm
3x Warriors' Lesson
4x Temple Garden
10x Forest
8x Plains

I might be crazy, but I think it's actually too slow compared to RDW. Warriors' Lesson I feel like is going to have to be a clutch card, catching the deck up after your opponent's BTE plays.

Author:  rstnme [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Croatoan wrote:
I think oranges was being very clear;
You said that the Caryatid was good for stopping early Aggro, while his response was that early Aggro was better at stopping early Aggro, and your deck would be better with more of it (like Experiment One, or Dryad Militant maybe).
He wasn't being insulting, and there was no need to be insulting to him.


Hey, I asked for clarification, and he repeated himself. In the scope of manners, that's being purposefully unhelpful, so I feel justified in being glib. Though your forum romance is kinda sweet :love:

There's already a deck in the OP that has the militant, btw.

Either way, if you don't wanna talk about the decks specifically, why bother posting?

Author:  Cato [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Running dryad militant in the same deck as a creature with defender just feels so wrong.

Also, I don't like nylea or her bow, they just feel like they don't do enough. I want to play stuff that attacks or blocks.

Author:  Flopfoot [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

I goldfished the 'up to 7' list a few times. Sometimes it's a bit of a flop (flood / screw / color screw). Most of the time it sort of works but can be a bit slow if you're in an aggro meta.

You can still run BTE in Selesnya if you think it will make you faster. The ideal case is that you play a different two drop on turn 2, then play BTE into Smiter on turn 3. You can also just get one mana back from it to play one drops (experiment, militant, mystic) or if for some reason you are using it together with the caryatid then that works too. If you really want to be able to do the crazy start of experiment one attacking for three on the second turn then you need to play BTE into Brushstrider which is crazy talk.


4 Elvish Mystic
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Brushstrider
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Fortify

4 Temple Garden
11 Forest
7 Plains

Author:  Croatoan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Flopfoot wrote:
I goldfished the 'up to 7' list a few times. Sometimes it's a bit of a flop (flood / screw / color screw). Most of the time it sort of works but can be a bit slow if you're in an aggro meta.

You can still run BTE in Selesnya if you think it will make you faster. The ideal case is that you play a different two drop on turn 2, then play BTE into Smiter on turn 3. You can also just get one mana back from it to play one drops (experiment, militant, mystic) or if for some reason you are using it together with the caryatid then that works too. If you really want to be able to do the crazy start of experiment one attacking for three on the second turn then you need to play BTE into Brushstrider which is crazy talk.


4 Elvish Mystic
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Brushstrider
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Fortify

4 Temple Garden
11 Forest
7 Plains

If you're going to add BTE you could always go Naya instead of just GW and add in Ghor-Clan Rampager in place of Advent of the Wurm.

Author:  Croatoan [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

rstnme wrote:
Croatoan wrote:
I think oranges was being very clear;
You said that the Caryatid was good for stopping early Aggro, while his response was that early Aggro was better at stopping early Aggro, and your deck would be better with more of it (like Experiment One, or Dryad Militant maybe).
He wasn't being insulting, and there was no need to be insulting to him.


Hey, I asked for clarification, and he repeated himself. In the scope of manners, that's being purposefully unhelpful, so I feel justified in being glib. Though your forum romance is kinda sweet :love:

There's already a deck in the OP that has the militant, btw.

Either way, if you don't wanna talk about the decks specifically, why bother posting?

I'm glad you enjoy it. It's my life's mission to spread happy joy-joy feelings to all.
As far as Dryad, that's fair, but I was focusing on the first deck that had Caryatid in it, as that was the card that brought up the whole "Good vs Aggro".

Author:  Cato [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

Going naya without the checklands just feels bad for the manabase.

Author:  Flopfoot [ Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which Selesnya Beaters Should I Run (Standard)

I've tried Naya out with 22 lands - four of each shockland, two of each basic land, and four Temple of Abandon. That's only ten white sources but you probably won't have that many white cards in your deck anyway. The mana base rarely caused me any issues.

The "Selesnya Brushstrider" deck I posted above partly as a joke has actually been running pretty well in goldfishing. I wonder if it should have Boon Satyr possibly in place of the Smiters.

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