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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Helm of the ghastlord is +2/+2, draw 1 card when you damage an opponent, and discard 1 card when you damage an opponent. All wrapped up into one card. 10 of my creatures are multicolor and thus get all those effects, and the other creatures are primarily unblockable blue weenies in which I really wouldn't mind them reading "3/3; unblockable; draw 1 card every time this damages an opponent". In addition to this, out of 19 creatures, 8 are unblockable, 5 have flying, and 3 I am strongly considering replacing with flying creatures. The others are grimgrin and the royal assassin dude.

That's worth it alone because that's probably one of the biggest advantage engines this deck ever gets. There aren't a ton of finishers here.




I'm going to strongly consider the rest of the suggestions and get back to you all in a little bit.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:37 pm 
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If you drop the unliving psycopath, and you probably should, throw in the Sangromancer. You have a lot of discard effects in your deck so she should make people panic a little, and at the very least it's a 3/3 flyer for 4 cmc. No real downside to the card if you can afford the BB cost and you have the assassin in. The minor lifegain may even afford you some extra life that moroii demands.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:03 pm 
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So here is version two of what I've got, after 5 games of testing. I've also realized that not being able to manipulate your own lands causes huge problems.

4 terramorphic expanse
10 swamp
11 island

4 agony warp
2 dimir guildmage
2 inkfathom infiltrator
1 invisible stalker
2 walking corpse

2 neurok invisimancer
2 phantom warrior
1 royal assassin
1 soul manipulation

1 abyssal specter
2 barrin's spite
1 glen elendra liege
3 helm of the ghastlord
3 moroii
2 necromantic thirst
1 sangromancer

1 ghastlord of fugue
1 grimgrin, corpse-born
2 ribbons of night

1 laquatus's champion



So the changes here were made because of a combination of advice, trying to get the land count to be at least somewhat workable, and frankly a few things just not working or working really well in testing.

So I won 3 out of 5 duels against the computer. I was playing against Grim Procession.

For Cards I am iffy on:

walking corpse went in because it makes more hands playable. sangromancer went in because theoretically it will extend the game (which is to my advantage), and it has evasion. laquatus's champion went in because I needed a black finisher to adjust the curve, and it's switching back and forth with mephidross vampire for now.

barrin's spite saved me 2 times, helm of the ghastlord was directly responsible for two of the wins, and necromantic thirst was directly responsible for the 3rd win. So I'm going to leave them in for another round of testing and see how it goes.

I'm also a little iffy on grimgrin and the abyssal specter. They have both been okay, but neither has been super great so far.




After some testing, a major plus is that the deck performed a lot better after the adjustments, just because it's more focused now, the curve is slightly better, and I basically dropped anything that was an evasionless french vanilla.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:20 pm 
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I didn't use Grimgrin in this deck. Much like Grave Pact in LoD, the deck just doesn't have the fuel to keep him going.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:35 pm 
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That's what I'm not sure about actually, and it's why I'm really conflicted on the card.

So so far, I've used it in 3 of 8 duels testingwise.

What I used it for was to sacrifice something I didn't need anymore in order to take out a problem permanent. So the question is whether or not I think it's worth it to use it like that on occassion, where I just sac 1 creature to kill something I can't handle. So far it has killed a silent arbiter, an angel of flight alabaster, a sanguine praetor (how the dude got it out I have no idea, but it happened), and a divinity of pride. I wouldn't have been able to handle any of those otherwise.

The issue is am I being results oriented there?

The other issue is what would I replace it with? I already have a 6 drop in there for lack of a better thing to put in there.


On a different note, barrin's spite is proving too good to leave out of the deck. The card permanently deals with one problem and keeps a different one from attacking next turn (ignoring the effects of auras or counters being on the bounced card and so forth). Since this deck is still kind of slower than others, that card keeps saving my rear end. And my opponent only having one creature is a lot less likely to be a problem than my opponnet having multiple creatures and that being a problem.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:54 pm 
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I keep him in for just that purpose. Grimgrin is a beast that will usually be 7/7 when you do swing with him, clear at least one problem out of the way and is strangely a lower priority target for removal at first...your opponents will usually aim to something else, at least in my experience, and I can't understand why. Worth the spot for the use you can get from him.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Unfortunately, multiplayer on 2013 is completely dead right now, so I have to stop testing for a little bit. That being the case, how does this look for a base?

"Starter"
A library for the Rainbow 2013 deck (Mana Mastery)
60 Cards. 34 nonlands (5 creatures, 29 spells). 26 Lands (20 basic; 6 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 2x Evolving Wilds
-- 4x Terramorphic Expanse
cost  
-- 4x Rampant Growth
cost  
-- 4x Cultivate
-- 2x Maelstrom Pulse
-- 1x Pernicious Deed
-- 3x Vindicate
cost  
-- 3x Day of Judgment
cost  
-- 1x All Suns' Dawn
-- 4x Allied Strategies
-- 2x Prophetic Bolt
cost  
-- 1x Defiler of Souls
cost  
-- 1x Enigma Sphinx
-- 1x Magister Sphinx
-- 1x Violent Ultimatum
cost  
-- 1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
-- 1x Conflux
cost  
-- 1x Progenitus
cost  
-- 1x Lavalanche
-- 2x Savage Twister

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Last edited by mjack33 on Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:32 pm 
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No Enigma Sphinx? Honestly, it's the first thing I look for in the deck, and with only 5 creatures it's good to have one that loves to pop in every three turns.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Meh.
He has too many creatures to begin with.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:10 pm 
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I was running it, but I switched it for magister sphinx which ran a lot better.

Basically put, cascade causes as many problems as it solves when you have like a 1 in 2 shot of hitting removal. Way too many good cards kept going to bottom of the deck.

However, I guess I can try it again instead of kaervek.


@devilwuster, there aren't really any super worthwhile noncreatures left, to the point where something like defiler of souls or sphinx of the steel wind is significantly better than your other remaining options.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Grimgrin is a bomb; it took me a while to try him, but he was a workhorse every time.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Cards going to the bottom of the deck isn't really an issue when you can shuffle with so much ramp/tutor effects, not to mention you can cascade your way through it so many times. In other words, the downside is all in your mind, you just need to ignore that little niggle. Good to have in, and personally I ran loads in mine. I cut red completely though, for fun, so I often hit other creatures.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:10 pm 
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I tried cutting both red and blue at one point. Losing conflux really sucks, and losing either 40% of your good sweepers or basically your best draw card..... both those things suck really bad too. Thus I can understand trying it for fun, but it didn't work for me competitively.

The problem with running a ton of creatures for me has been that this deck tends to have to play removal catchup at some point if it doesn't play removal prevention to begin with, so running all the good removal and just a few REALLY good creatures has worked better than running most of the good removal and about 10 creatures.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:32 pm 
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Since i'm bored, just look at this amazing list...why oh why will WotC not re release these lists and let us finally trim them??? It drives me insane knowing such (dotp standards!!!!) perfection is so close and I can't edit it like I want, and play it...

"Starter"
A library for the Tezzeret 2009 deck (Relics of Doom)
90 Cards. 56 nonlands (29 creatures, 27 spells). 34 Lands (34 basic).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
cost  
-- 2x Ornithopter
-- 1x Fountain of Youth
cost  
-- 2x Executioner's Capsule
-- 3x Leonin Scimitar
cost  
-- 2x Alpha Myr
-- 3x Etherium Sculptor
-- 4x Glaze Fiend
-- 4x Tidehollow Strix
-- 2x Demon's Horn
-- 4x Howling Mine
-- 2x Kraken's Eye
-- 4x Terror
cost  
-- 4x Bottle Gnomes
-- 3x Master of Etherium
-- 2x Wall of Spears
-- 4x Cancel
-- 1x Loxodon Warhammer
-- 2x Onyx Goblet
-- 1x Tinker
cost  
-- 1x Font of Mythos
cost  
-- 1x Razormane Masticore
cost  
-- 2x Sharding Sphinx
-- 1x Triskelion
cost  
-- 1x Platinum Angel

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Well, we could have a little bit of fun with it and the other 2009 decks in another thread. What would be the best way to trim them?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:22 am 
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Well, we could have a little bit of fun with it and the other 2009 decks in another thread. What would be the best way to trim them?


If you don't make that thread, I will later.Was thinking of it last night, but way too tired.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:39 pm 
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I've got an unorthodox CL build I'd love to share. I'd have done it back when MJack was discussing his CL build but I completely missed when this thread got started.

I come from the school that life gain for life gain's sake is a good way to die slowly. But then I played against a guy with a variant on this deck and I couldn't figure out why I just could not kill him. When I searched his deck with my Bribery I started to get the picture. Now this has become the deck that makes me boot up 2013.

Noticeably absent (besides any concern about mana curve) is Ajani's Pridemate. The only card I have in there that I'd consider swapping out is the 1 Elixir of Immortality that I keep simply so I won't deck myself. I've come close but it's never actually happened, so it really just makes me feel better (and is kinda sorta a hard counter to mill but...). You'll also notice how incredibly few creatures there are, and yet I always seem to have enough presence to keep myself alive until I can punch through ftw... or cast Felidar Sovereign. Neither the collar nor the hammer ever seem to live for long, but if you're taking those out (and with these creatures they're rediculouly effective) then you don't have anything left to take out my Well. People always seem to make wrong choices against this deck. I know counter fear is a thing but who knew Chastise fear was a thing? This is built for a long game, so don't use it if you're looking for a quick pick-up game. Ending the game with 15-17 land in play is common. In addition to regularly seeing over 200 life (yes, 2013 was able to handle 4 digit life totals: confirmed) this deck specialized in narrowly avoiding death only to have 30-40 life and running away with it two to three turns later. I choose to ignore how bad this is against gobs since gobs was clearly intended for a whole different meta :roll:

Oh - and Serra Avatar... for all the times I pictured you doubling my life with a collar or a hammer attached I can count the number of times you actually did it on... 0 hands... :sweat:

OMGlife!

25 plains

1cmc
4x Soul Warden
4x Serra Ascendant so easy to get 30 life, often at instant speed or during first strike
1x Basilisk Collar first strike, token
1x Elixir of Immortality
2x Swords to Plowshares kinda broken removal

2cmc
2x Knight of Meadowgrain unbelieveably effective, especially with any artifact in play. What more could you want from a 2cmc card? But seriosly, who cross bred a goat and a chocobo?

3cmc
1x Loxodon Warhammer for how effective it is I'll accept that equipping it can be tough early
2x Recumbent Bliss
2x Solemn Offering use them wisely my friend

4cmc
1x Rhox Faithmender one of the hearts of the deck, and infrequently targetted for some reason
4x Chastise
1x Marshal's Anthem did I mention that having 16 land in play is a thing?
2x Day of Judgment
1x Well of Lost Dreams when will they learn to target this first?

5cmc
2x Baneslayer Angel a beast in any deck - and boy do people forget pro demon :eek:

6cmc
1x Felidar Sovereign actually not usually my win con, but nice to end the game and a beast if you're low on life and struggling with weenie rush
2x Beacon of Immortality many things are made better by Rhox but... yeah...

Xcmc
2x White Sun's Zenith if stuck for land early I've been known to play this for three so it won't hit my graveyard as a discard. Stall tactic and win con rolled into one. Did I mention the 16 lands thing? This and the beacon coming into my hand for the the third time always makes me smile.

edit: yup - 25 plains and it turns out I'm running all four Chastise.


Last edited by Cephelopod 22 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:26 am 
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You are missing 2 cards from your build, one of them is plains.

I was running this sort of build for a while, before moving to a more aggressive build with the pridemate, and some low curve cards like the monk that gives you 4 life, thus rushing to 30 life to get the 6/6 lifelink flier fast.

I remember that the library often ends with this build, and that you sometimes win by milling, the real question about elixir is: does playing beacon and zenith repeatably when your library ends gives you the win?

It can also go against the anthem, on the other hand, it shuffles day of judgment and the well back to your library.

About what you wrote on felidar, I guess that low on life means still above 40 :) I never try building without any pridemate, I will try running this build with monk replacing elixir, just because I'm interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:49 am 
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I am against beacon of immortality in the deck, because your entire turn and :5::w: to double your life is almost always win more instead of being useful.

Your build also doesn't have enough creature lifegain or enough early lifegain. Creaturewise, you have 4 soul warden and 2 knight of meadowgrain and that's it before we hit 5 mana. While that's nice...... it's not enough. You have a couple other sources of early lifegain, but not enough either.

The problem brought about by this is that you don't have constant life gain going in enough amounts to activate most of your best cards, and one or two minor problems will happen every so often are caused.

Which comes to both of these problems can be solved a little by swapping two beacon of immortality for two ajani's sunstriker, which is what I would suggest to begin with.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:11 am 
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He also have 4xSerra Ascendant and Rhox Faithmender.

I played with this build a bit, and it can work nicely against some of the control decks that will just run of cards before they can beat you ( I managed to mill OD, which is a game that you can usually win only with the well). but when I played, I felt that usually I indeed stole and let other decks find their winning condition.
I even lost to goblins with this build (early aggro), I got milled against DP (which I thought this build is good against with 5 anti mill cards, but perhaps early aggression is better).
I went 7-5 with this build, and I remember this deck was better than that.

In general, I think it is better to just try and win the game. Ajani pridemate does it, I also really like Lone Missionary, he has decent stats, and when I start with him, and Serra Ascendant I usually get a 6/6 lifelink flier in about turn 4.

You are running all the other good cards.

this are the cards that I like:

[1v1] "aggro life gain=wtf?!"
A library for the Ajani 2013 deck (Celestial Light)
52 Cards. 30 nonlands (20 creatures, 10 spells). 22 Lands (22).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
cost  
-- 4x Serra Ascendant
-- 4x Soul Warden
-- 1x Basilisk Collar
-- 2x Swords to Plowshares
cost  
-- 4x Ajani's Pridemate
-- 2x Knight of Meadowgrain
-- 2x Lone Missionary
cost  
-- 1x Loxodon Warhammer
cost  
-- 1x Rhox Faithmender
-- 2x Day of Judgment
-- 1x Marshal's Anthem
-- 1x Well of Lost Dreams
cost  
-- 2x Baneslayer Angel
cost  
-- 1x Felidar Sovereign
cost  
-- 2x White Sun's Zenith

Besides these I run: 2xkemba's skyguard, 1xseraph of dawn and 1-of from each of the situational Solemn offering, Chastise.

So the difference is from control-> 9 more early game creatures (creatures aggro).


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