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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:47 am 
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I'm guessing this is old news, but I just discovered that Commander 2015 won't be released as a discrete product for MTGO.

Announcement here.

So, to get any Commander 2015 cards I have to play a cube (I know they are popular, but I despise draft in all of its forms, cube included), hope I win, then hope I get what I am looking for -or- entirely rely on the secondary market. Am I the only one very bothered by this. Livid might be a better word. Oh, and the official forums are closing and there is no way to comment on articles and announcements anymore (you can share and like, of course, but no comments ...a.k.a. no negative responses)

What I don't understand is this: If they are already coding all of the new cards into the game; why not make it available in the store? It makes no sense as far as I can tell. Sure, have the cube for those that like those things. But why not make the cards available in more than one way. I can't be the only one who dislikes cubes and doesn't want to rely on random 6-card packs and secondary market as my only way to get a product that should be available from day 1 in the store.

I want to give them money. I want to just buy the decks I need and go. Do they hate the community so much that they don't want to let us pay them for product? It makes no sense to me.

[/rant]

PS: It was very difficult to remain civil while writing this, I hope I succeeded.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:32 am 
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I think the thing is that "the store" is a very inefficient way of distributing any new product. The only thing that the store should sell is Event Tickets. And even Event Tickets are cheaper on the secondary market.

All draftable products are more expensive in the store compared to the secondary market (if you include taxes). Origins was slightly above 4 tix at some point but I doubt that it was cheaper to buy the packs from the store. Any constructed product sold at "the store" is also subject to competition from the secondary market. In most cases the cards are redundant online , e.g., premium decks, and the cards can be bought from a bot using Event Tickets at a cheaper price. So when they sell these kind of decks at "the store" they are essentially cheating people into buying a product for too high a price (you may get new art). For Commander products, usually there are some non-redundant cards, so need to be distributed somehow. If they fix a price an sell them at the store, then the price is either too low and the cards will sell for more on the secondary market. This is equivalent to giving away money for free. Or the price will be too high, so that the product will not sell very well anyway. "The store" is simply not a good way of distributing cards.

I also don't like the new non-draftable boosters where you can hope to be lucky. For me they are just as bad as "the store".


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:08 am 
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Cauchy wrote:
All draftable products are more expensive in the store compared to the secondary market (if you include taxes). Origins was slightly above 4 tix at some point but I doubt that it was cheaper to buy the packs from the store. Any constructed product sold at "the store" is also subject to competition from the secondary market. ... "The store" is simply not a good way of distributing cards.


But, here's my point. I prefer the store for constructed Pre-Cons (and a lot of product). I know it is more expensive, but since I have few hours per week for anything Magic Related I would rather not waste time trying to search out the 56 new cards (or which ones I want) in the secondary market. I would rather play. Since I rarely have time for more than 1-2 games per week, I am willing to pay more to get one quick transaction rather than spend hours/days/more trying to find the people/bots that a) have what I want, b) aren't price-gouging for it and c) are available when I am.

For me, it was worth paying a little more for commander pre-cons I wanted on the first day they were available, then being able to enjoy those cards right away (e.g I already had an Uril Beast Tribal and picked up the Nature of the Beast deck, swapped out Uril for Gahiji and changed a few other beasts and was playing the stuff 15 minutes later.

I don't draft and rarely have more than 10-15 tix in my account. Judging by random posts on other forums/venues I am not alone. But in the end, why should it be either/or. Why not both?

Secondary market is great for those that enjoy it and have the time to follow prices, trends and find the right sellers. The store is fine for those without those inclinations, that are willing to pay a bit more for much less hassle.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:21 am 
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Your point is very valid. When you factor in your time consumption then it may be preferable to buy at the store. I certainly agree.

It could be a communication issue. When you and others pay a premium and save time then that is perfectly fine for both you and WotC. When inexperienced players buy the product at a premium and later discover that they could have acquired it (a lot) cheaper then that is bad for the reputation. Ideally, then WotC should clearly state that there are alternative and possibly cheaper ways to acquire the cards.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:01 am 
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Yeah there is really no good excuse for not including the product online except that they want to make those new cards hard to get and push the product they ARE being released with (Legendary Cube). Somehow I doubt that's actually going to work unless the cube is exceptionally better than average and people really want the new cards. This was not a community centric decision that's for sure.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:42 pm 
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I sent an email to Lee Sharpe. We'll see what response, if any, I receive.

Spoiler


I hope that came off as civil and interested. Hostility gets you nowhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:08 pm 
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Are you sure they aren't releasing C15 Online discretely, too? I didn't see anywhere that they aren't - just that Legacy Cube will have prize packs with the chase cards from some of the more limited card releases. Maybe this is just an attempt to introduce more supply of the staple cards like Containment Priest True-Name Nemesis, and Shardless Agent without re-releasing the associated products.

That would make a lot more sense to me... why dump the resources into developing a product, porting it to the online cardpool, and then NOT release it retail? Would the expected return on Legacy Cube really exceed the profit from selling the C15 decks at retail prices?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:30 pm 
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http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/articl ... -08-05#FAQ

and I quote:
Quote:
Are the Commander (2015 Edition) decks still going to be sold in the Magic Online Store?

No, Commander (2015 Edition) decks will not be available in the Magic Online Store. Prize Packs will be the only way to get the new Commander (2015 Edition) cards on Magic Online. Every new card from Commander (2015 Edition) will be available on Magic Online.



OH and Trea that was more than kind imho.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:40 pm 
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I stand corrected. What Cauchy said is sinking in tho. The online market is so fluid that it is next to impossible to distribute new cards in a non-randomized fashion without under or overcharging. And there aren't enough new cards in the Commander 'sets' to warrant an actual EDH booster pack release like they would with their normal sets. This must be their attempt at a solution. I wonder how it will affect the value of those cards online versus the paper versions. Seems dodgy to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:13 am 
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What Cauchy said is sinking in tho.

Maybe I should put this as my signature ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:28 am 
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Usually there is at least 1 commander deck that is worth the price of the deck if not more. I believe one or two of the planechase decks were worth about 10 tickets more than its store price for a while. The Planeswalker duel decks seemed to also hold their value around the store costs.

I was upset at them discontinuing the duel decks and also upset in them doing the same to commander decks.

We shall see if the duel decks helped to set a price cap on certain cards. I didn't keep track of Kiora and Eslpeth like I had hoped but I believe their contents was more than the deck would of cost in the store. Had it been in the store it would of capped the prices. I think some of the older alternative art cards are worth having at this point from certain older decks. They also said that not having these decks they would still release the alternative art cards as promos but I don't think they have done this at all yet. I am waiting for something like daze to be included in a planeswalker deck and then the value to be 150% to 200% on the secondary market to what it would of been in the store.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the market. If I had to guess some of those commander cards that are built for commander only will probably hit 40 or 50 tickets because of they way they are releasing them. I am hoping that a couple will hit 60 tickets and there will be enough backlash to get them to put them in the store. Though I think this will only have them offer the pack prizes in another event.

The other thing I don't like is they are doing a lot more phantom flashback drafts. I was really worried when they offered the phantom draft option that this horrible thing would spread and it looks like it has.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:35 pm 
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And.....my prediction holds true. I still have not found all the things I want from C15 and updated the decks that want them. Glad I could have just bought all 5 from the store instead of doing the bot-stock-check-shuffle... oh wait.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:38 pm 
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Well to be fair the MTGOtraders bots seem to have most of the cards if the prices on some of them are stiffer than I'd like...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:25 am 
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Yeah, I got some of the most important ones from Heath, but still looking for a few and not close to all 56 new cards.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:26 am 
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So it appears that Geist of Saint Traft is going to be in the next duel deck. Thankfully this $16 card is not going to be allowed to be purchased because they don't do duel decks in the store anymore. These usually get some pretty good commons and/or uncommons so I look forward to this being worth more in cards than the MSRP online but not available to us.


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